HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
View Poll Results: Are you interested in a Multiplex Sonic Liner clone?
I'd strongly consider buying one 76 54.68%
I would possibly consider buying one 31 22.30%
no interest 29 20.86%
other thoughts- explain in your post 3 2.16%
Voters: 139. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Dec 05, 2012, 11:39 AM
Checking CG is for NERDS!
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I just sent a note to Phoenix Racing (aka Scott from Hobbyking) about this discussion. Hes pretty active on the forum and knows a lot about the hobby and seems like a decent all around guy. I asked him to weigh in if he was so inclined.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 01:20 PM
Tinkerer of makeshift failures
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Nothing to see here, move on.
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Last edited by Darsh; Jan 28, 2013 at 08:07 AM. Reason: Nothing to see here, move on.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 05:10 PM
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michigan
Joined Apr 2009
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..." Hello ...ahead of its time...thats all.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
Anecdotal evidence?

The Sonic-Liner was presented at the Nuremberg Toy Fair in 2003.

The kit got discontinued in the US in 2006 - see here:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_50...anchor/tm.htm#

I don't think it is necessary to explain again why the model got discontinued.

Usually when a model is not selling well, the price is lowered - see here:

http://modellbau-welt.com/mpx-214190...ex-sonic-liner

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_50...anchor/tm.htm#

Sonicliner kits given away as raffle prices at Fun Fly Racing competitions:

http://www.rclineforum.de/forum/boar...858#post568858

And if you really want one - check here :

http://www.hobbyshop.ch/sonic-liner-compl-set.html

Jürgen
..." Mr. Jurgen .."...I think that this plane , the sonic liner was introduced
at the wrong time. I think they were trying to appeal to the Old Timmers club members
who were (Hard Core fuel plane users) , the "Old Timmers "..who would not accept anything new....If you were not making alot of noice you weren't flying... You still get that today, you go to the flying feilds and they are not happy to see electric planes because thats all they know
and have way to much money tied up in them to change now, they have "attitude" towards you ..I have seem it ..It would be like changing from a horse and buggy to a Model T... . I am sure the new people who are into this sport today who are now into electric would want to buy one
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 10:14 PM
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United States, CT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darsh View Post
Absolutely no problem in sharing the files, but right now it's just a crude 3d shape (no inside structure, no cuts nor grooves for stuff like ailerons, engine, etc). Also file format might be an issue. Later i will post it anyway thou

[edit] as promised here are my 3d files "as they are". They would probably need to be rescaled, tweaked and converted to another format to work with your CNC mill, but should at least give you a starting point.
Thanks, Darsh!
I'll see if we can do anything with this... Again, great (and quick work)!
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlions72 View Post
..." Mr. Jurgen .."...I think that this plane , the sonic liner was introduced
at the wrong time. I think they were trying to appeal to the Old Timmers club members
who were (Hard Core fuel plane users) , the "Old Timmers "..who would not accept anything new....If you were not making alot of noice you weren't flying... You still get that today, you go to the flying feilds and they are not happy to see electric planes because thats all they know
and have way to much money tied up in them to change now, they have "attitude" towards you ..I have seem it ..It would be like changing from a horse and buggy to a Model T... . I am sure the new people who are into this sport today who are now into electric would want to buy one

Definitely! The anti-electric sentiment is fading these days but even five years back you would find this in many clubs.

Besides that, In 2003 this plane was out of the main stream...by 2006 it was old news.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 01:04 AM
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53859 Niederkassel, Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
... and with modern computer radios and gyros, there is a lot more fun to be had with playing with thrust differential and canards.
...
Even before computer radios, I was "playing" with canards/elevons and even forward swept wings:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...162&goto=first

Differential thrust I used on my Twin-Jets and my Swift-Racer - all well before the Sonicliner was available.

Jürgen
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlions72 View Post
..." Mr. Jurgen .."...I think that this plane , the sonic liner was introduced at the wrong time. ...
I am sure the new people who are into this sport today who are now into electric would want to buy one
I tend to disagree here.

Perhaps the situation you described fits your local clubs, but over here, models like the Twin-Star and the Twin-Jet were best selling kits long before the Sonicliner was introduced. People just were not interested in airliners. The Robbe Concorde and the Robbe Airliner shared the same fate as the Sonicliner.

Most modelers back then - and even now - rather fly a model of a WW II warbird or an EDF jet than an airliner. With an airliner you set yourself up to fly around in circles, because any kind of aerobatics would looks rather silly.

Jürgen
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 02:53 AM
Life-abstract=conformity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
I tend to disagree here.



Most modelers back then - and even now - rather fly a model of a WW II warbird or an EDF jet than an airliner. With an airliner you set yourself up to fly around in circles, because any kind of aerobatics would looks rather silly.
Jürgen
Never bothered me
J
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 03:42 AM
Tinkerer of makeshift failures
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Jurgen does have a point... there's a reason why you see soo many "conversions" of sonic liners in star wars stuff...
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 07:12 AM
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United States, CT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
Even before computer radios, I was "playing" with canards/elevons and even forward swept wings:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...162&goto=first

Differential thrust I used on my Twin-Jets and my Swift-Racer - all well before the Sonicliner was available.

Jürgen
Cool model... scratch built?

My point was that these features are more easily mixed and tuned with modern equipment.

There seems to be a big gap in the market for kits that take advantage of canards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
I tend to disagree here.

Perhaps the situation you described fits your local clubs, but over here, models like the Twin-Star and the Twin-Jet were best selling kits long before the Sonicliner was introduced. People just were not interested in airliners. The Robbe Concorde and the Robbe Airliner shared the same fate as the Sonicliner.

Most modelers back then - and even now - rather fly a model of a WW II warbird or an EDF jet than an airliner. With an airliner you set yourself up to fly around in circles, because any kind of aerobatics would looks rather silly.

Jürgen
Honestly, this "market analysis" is just more anectodal evidence. I don't doubt that you're accurately describing what you saw at your clubs but that doesn't mean it was universally true.

Regardless, if RC kit sellers only produced what the plurality of modelers wanted we would have about five different airframes- an Easystar style pusher, high wing trainer, an an aerobatic/ugly stick style plane and a P-51D Mustang.

Fortunately, there is room for diversity in the hobby. For example, a business case was made for each of the models below that I grabbed off of HK's site.... something tells me that a Sonic Liner clone would have a broader appeal than at least some of the following kts.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 08:29 AM
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53859 Niederkassel, Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
Cool model... scratch built?
...
There seems to be a big gap in the market for kits that take advantage of canards.
...
Honestly, this "market analysis" is just more anectodal evidence. I don't doubt that you're accurately describing what you saw at your clubs but that doesn't mean it was universally true.

Regardless, if RC kit sellers only produced what the plurality of modelers wanted we would have about five different airframes - an Easystar style pusher, high wing trainer, an an aerobatic/ugly stick style plane and a P-51D Mustang.
...
Yep, scratch built.

All three models, Sonicliner, Concorde and Airliner where only on the market for two to three years. They were just not selling.

Well, there are more than 5 types of airplanes, but these 5 types probably make 80% of the sales.

Model manufacturers are much more careful nowadays what they put on the market. If there is a high risk, the model won't sell well, it won't be produced.

Jürgen
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
Yep, scratch built.

All three models, Sonicliner, Concorde and Airliner where only on the market for two to three years. They were just not selling.

Well, there are more than 5 types of airplanes, but these 5 types probably make 80% of the sales.

Model manufacturers are much more careful nowadays what they put on the market. If there is a high risk, the model won't sell well, it won't be produced.

Jürgen
I don't doubt that this plane was outsold by more mass appeal offerings like the Funjet or Easystar but three years is a pretty good run. Only the best Parkzone warbirds (a very mass appeal line of models) get more than three years without a massive revision.

The point stands that there is probably more of an audience for this plane than hundreds of others that see production every year. Perhaps not enough to justify Multiplex's high overhead...but certainly enough for Hobby King by my guess.

Don't get me wrong, autogyros are cool... I would like to see if I could fly on one from Prussia all the way to Siam! I just have my doubts that the models sell in big numbers.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 09:47 AM
Checking CG is for NERDS!
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Scott replied to my PM and said that he forwarded the discussion to his team at Hobby King.

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Old Dec 06, 2012, 10:04 AM
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Whoa.

Darsh, do you have any objections to HK or anyone using your files? it might be a good head start...
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 10:29 AM
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53859 Niederkassel, Germany
Joined Sep 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
I don't doubt that this plane was outsold by more mass appeal offerings like the Funjet or Easystar but three years is a pretty good run. Only the best Parkzone warbirds (a very mass appeal line of models) get more than three years without a massive revision.
...
The difference between the Sonicliner and Parkzone warbirds is, that those warbirds are selling like "hot cakes", while it took three years to get rid of one batch of Sonicliners.

Jürgen
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