HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
View Poll Results: Are you interested in a Multiplex Sonic Liner clone?
I'd strongly consider buying one 76 54.68%
I would possibly consider buying one 31 22.30%
no interest 29 20.86%
other thoughts- explain in your post 3 2.16%
Voters: 139. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
Thread Tools
Old Nov 26, 2012, 02:36 PM View Post
MRGTX
A moderator felt this post violated the following rule: Personal Attack. It is temporarily hidden while MRGTX edits it. Show it to me anyway.
Old Nov 26, 2012, 02:38 PM
Registered User
Los Angeles, CA
Joined Mar 2004
1,260 Posts
What about contacting Pete at Banana Hobby.
I'm sure he knows who to contact in China
lv2soar is offline Find More Posts by lv2soar
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 26, 2012, 03:11 PM
Registered User
Jurgen Heilig's Avatar
53859 Niederkassel, Germany
Joined Sep 2000
18,762 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
...
As for the comparison with the Twin Star II, wrong again! You know vastly less than you think you do, amigo. The Sonic Liner is actually more than 20% heavier than the Twinstar II ...(which is running a more efficient tractor set up)!! ...
Well, how about using the MPX manuals as reference?

Sonicliner - wing area: 42dm², weight: 1550g
Twin-Star II - wing area: 43dm², weight: 1500g

And please let's not debate here whether puller/pusher is more efficient.

I would like to adjust however the price of the Sonicliner. It wasn't really that expensive.

When the Twin-Jet got out in 2001, the list price was 219.- DM (or €112.- Euro).
The Sonicliner in 2003 started with a list price of €129.-, which is just 15% more.

A MPX Micro-Jet (kit only: €69.-), which also was introduced in 2003, with 15A ESC, 2 Nano-S (= Hitec HS-55) servos and a 7/500AR NiCd pack cost €174.-

Jürgen
Jurgen Heilig is offline Find More Posts by Jurgen Heilig
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 26, 2012, 03:25 PM
Tinkerer of makeshift failures
Darsh's Avatar
Joined Jun 2012
325 Posts
I can't believe you two are still going at it... MRGTX, would it help if i made a plan so you can scratch build one yourself?
Darsh is offline Find More Posts by Darsh
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 26, 2012, 03:37 PM
Registered User
Jurgen Heilig's Avatar
53859 Niederkassel, Germany
Joined Sep 2000
18,762 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darsh View Post
I can't believe you two are still going at it... MRGTX, would it help if i made a plan so you can scratch build one yourself?
Most likely not.

I am pretty sure, that those guys who would "strongly consider buying one" or "possibly consider buying one", want a model like the original Sonicliner (same high quality and easy assembly), but at a much lower price than the original.

Jürgen
Jurgen Heilig is offline Find More Posts by Jurgen Heilig
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 26, 2012, 04:02 PM
Registered User
Alan W's Avatar
NY
Joined May 2000
2,257 Posts
I would think the return on investment had alot more to do with SL demise including cost to manufacture, boxing requirements, storage costs, shipping costs and lastly shelf space costs with respect to turnover at retail locations.

If you can make a product half the size with the same profit margin ...


... and for the record, I would buy one tomorrow. Then again, I still have an original Bridi DirtyBirdy60 glass/foam kit NIB on the shelf and after 30+ years out of production it is back as an ARF !!
Alan W is offline Find More Posts by Alan W
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 26, 2012, 04:37 PM
Registered User
MRGTX's Avatar
United States, CT
Joined Aug 2005
1,950 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darsh View Post
I can't believe you two are still going at it... MRGTX, would it help if i made a plan so you can scratch build one yourself?
Drash, I can't believe it either.
...
Thanks for the offer of drawing up plans. I have a bail of blue foam and a long winter ahead. If this is a project that you are interested in taking on, I suspect I'm not the only one who would appreciate it.

Edited for sanity.
MRGTX is online now Find More Posts by MRGTX
Last edited by MRGTX; Nov 26, 2012 at 07:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 26, 2012, 04:41 PM
Registered User
MRGTX's Avatar
United States, CT
Joined Aug 2005
1,950 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
Well, how about using the MPX manuals as reference?

Sonicliner - wing area: 42dm², weight: 1550g
Twin-Star II - wing area: 43dm², weight: 1500g
...
Well, if the manuals say they're close then they probably are. It's still silly that the high speed airliner would have slightly less powerful setup than a prop driven square looking plane.

This thread has the only picture I could find of them together...not close enough for scale...
http://www.rcwarbird.de/Forum/index.php?topic=279.0
It sounds like this guy is enjoying his with differential thrust
MRGTX is online now Find More Posts by MRGTX
Last edited by MRGTX; Nov 26, 2012 at 07:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 26, 2012, 05:50 PM
Tinkerer of makeshift failures
Darsh's Avatar
Joined Jun 2012
325 Posts
Nothing to see here, move on.
Darsh is offline Find More Posts by Darsh
Last edited by Darsh; Jan 28, 2013 at 07:09 AM. Reason: Nothing to see here, move on.
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 26, 2012, 07:33 PM
Thanks Wilber and Orville !.
sonic liner's Avatar
San Jose Cally
Joined Jan 2004
1,038 Posts
A NIB Sonic Liner kit's gotta be worth way more than a mountain of fresh twinkies and a diet Coke !. I guess I'm gonna have to train old Bessy to chomp anyone that even comes close or Leers at our two units." Grandfather says to son on his death bed....I love you son, but you still cant have my Sonic Liner ".

Pete
sonic liner is online now Find More Posts by sonic liner
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 26, 2012, 07:35 PM
Registered User
cgoffa's Avatar
Joined Dec 2009
562 Posts
funny you should ask

Well.....on the box I have folded up and put away for my sonic liner, because I love the picture so much ( true story ) was/is the original hobby people of california price tag and as I recall it was about $199.99 in store


Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
You're right about this...and it's one more reason why a clone (especially one that comes as an ARF with motors included) has a better chance of succeeding. Plenty of EPO/brushless models, including twin-powered models, sell for mid $100s on Hobbyking.

That said, I recently paid $90 for a much smaller and simpler Funjet Ultra and $110 for a smaller and simpler Dogfighter and I didn't regret either purchase. When a model is good, it's worth the admission price.

Just out of curiosity, how much was the Sonic when it was on US hobby store shelves?
cgoffa is online now Find More Posts by cgoffa
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 26, 2012, 07:40 PM
Registered User
cgoffa's Avatar
Joined Dec 2009
562 Posts
even funnier you should ask

all of the old school multiplex airframes, the Magister/Mentor, Twinstar I and II, Mini Mag, Twin Jet and its cousin the Sonic liner, use relatively huge volumes of foam in the manufacturing process, I suspect this is because the original moulds and models were test shot in EPS and production could have gone with either material and we would have all been quite happy, In some ways I prefer EPS for the twin star, as with some monokote it becomes ungodly strong and is very light


Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
Have you seen these planes in person? The Sonic appears to occupy a significantly larger volume of foam. It's a big airplane!! The Twinstar II almost certainly occupies a smaller volume of Elapor. I am surprised the manuals list them as being so similar. I was not surprised to see the Ezone reviews listing their weights the way they did.

EDIT...this thread has the only picture I could find of them together...not close enough for scale...
http://www.rcwarbird.de/Forum/index.php?topic=279.0
It sounds like this guy is enjoying his with differential thrust

Regardless, the point stands that a plane with the implication of "high speed cruising" like the Sonic should handily out perform a high-wing, square plane like the Twinstar. So even if they are close, it's absurd that they would have the same power system.

For the record, I love my Twinstar II... but it's not a sleek air frame!
cgoffa is online now Find More Posts by cgoffa
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 26, 2012, 07:41 PM
Registered User
MRGTX's Avatar
United States, CT
Joined Aug 2005
1,950 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darsh View Post
Allright. I suppose you wouldn't settle for a profile build so it'll take me some time to make an accurate 3d build. Once i'm done i will post results in the appropriate forum (scratchbuilt) and backlink here.
Hmmm.... a profile/indoor model with functional canards might be a lot of fun!!
MRGTX is online now Find More Posts by MRGTX
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 26, 2012, 07:57 PM
Thanks Wilber and Orville !.
sonic liner's Avatar
San Jose Cally
Joined Jan 2004
1,038 Posts
Yes.....its a start in the right direction as well.

Plane
sonic liner is online now Find More Posts by sonic liner
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 26, 2012, 11:55 PM
Registered User
Jurgen Heilig's Avatar
53859 Niederkassel, Germany
Joined Sep 2000
18,762 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
Well, if the manuals say they're close then they probably are. It's still silly that the high speed airliner would have slightly less powerful setup than a prop driven square looking plane.
...
Well, let's have a look at scale speeds:

The scale of the Sonicliner is approx. 1:56.
The Twin-Star II most often gets compared with the DHC-6 Twin Otter. Wingspan DHC-6 = 19.8m, Twin-Star II = 1.42m, i.e. the scale is approx. 1:14.

Both models achieve about 45mph in level flight - with stock drives.

Scale Speed Sonicliner: 56 x 45 mph = 2520 mph

Scale Speed Twin-Star II: 14 x 45 mph = 630 mph

Ok, both models are way too fast, but lets compare those two figures:

2520 mph is 4 times faster than 630 mph.

The cruise speed of the Original Boeing Air Cruiser was Mach 0.95 or approx. 630 kts, and the cruise speed of a DHC-6 is about 1/4 of it. It all comes together nicely, doesn't it?

Jürgen
Jurgen Heilig is offline Find More Posts by Jurgen Heilig
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question Do you spend more time thinking about spending money or making money ? Usta Bee Life, The Universe, and Politics 30 Sep 02, 2014 05:52 PM
Question What do you do to your Duraplane Trainer 40 to make sure wing stays aligned? trevorcgross Combat Fuel Planes 5 Oct 11, 2012 08:51 AM
Discussion Banana and fms. What do you think you are doing? kusunokimasahige Banana Hobby 36 Jul 20, 2012 02:00 PM
Discussion what do you guys think of u can do 3d Evan03 Fuel Plane Talk 15 Apr 29, 2012 11:11 PM
Discussion What do you think about this? Conversion to Lipo on Sumo 1/24 AmazingRCstore Micro Cars 0 Feb 25, 2012 02:18 PM