HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
View Poll Results: Are you interested in a Multiplex Sonic Liner clone?
I'd strongly consider buying one 76 54.68%
I would possibly consider buying one 31 22.30%
no interest 29 20.86%
other thoughts- explain in your post 3 2.16%
Voters: 139. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Nov 26, 2012, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
Again, this is your opinion.

The cost to manufacture a kit like the Sonicliner has not changed much in the last 10 years. The only difference now are cheaper brushless drives and cheap Lithium Polymer batteries. But a lack of power was not the reason for the Sonicliner to fail back then.
...
Which part is my opinion?

There does seem to be interest in this kit in 2012...and talking about this renewed interest was the original point of this thread. You no business trying to squelch that discussion.

Conditions have certainly changed in the RC model market.

Costs for Chinese copies is dramatically less than the cost to the original manufacturer.

Which one would you like to refute?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
...If you'd ask for a re-production of the Twin-Jet with an updated, more symmetrical wing section, smooth surface like the FunJet Ultra, carbon spar, canopy with magnet locks etc. - now that might be a viable option.

Jürgen
This would be fine with me and I would be very, very interested in such a kit... but this is off topic.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mike_o View Post
Just to remind you how this plane performs with brushless power:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20T58ReHKIE

Great video. Fun music choice too!

That's a well set up Sonic! The canards seem to make this plane handle really uniquely. That high-alpha performance is crazy.

That is a good looking model it is in the air. I wants one.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
Which part is my opinion?
...
The part I quoted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
...
What is relevant is if there is interest now (and there indeed seems to be). This thread was about this very question. What happened with the model in the past means nothing since conditions have changed dramatically in the world of electric model airplanes in the past 10 years.
There just isn't enough interest in a model like the Sonicliner. Sure, a Chinese copy would be cheaper than the original MPX model, but even the Chinese copy shops would rather invest in a hot-selling product.

Jürgen
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
...
There just isn't enough interest in a model like the Sonicliner. Sure, a Chinese copy would be cheaper than the original MPX model, but even the Chinese copy shops would rather invest in a hot-selling product.

Jürgen
Are you joking?
None of what you quoted is a matter of opinion.

Perhaps you have been responding to the thread title which does appear to be a statement of opinion...but it was merely stated as hyperbole to generate conversation. Reading post #1 should have assuaged that misunderstanding.

I suspect that there is a significant level of interest in this model but I started the discussion and the poll to learn more about it and to also bring the plane to the minds of people who hadn't heard of it before since it has been out of production for so long.

Your input on how the model originally performed in the market place in 2003 is valuable but that's not what this discussion is about....additionally, it's solely based on your anecdotal evidence and not a valid test case in today's very different environment for reasons that are obvious to anyone who has been following along.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
...
Your input on how the model originally performed in the market place in 2003 is valuable but that's not what this discussion is about....additionally, it's solely based on your anecdotal evidence ...
Anecdotal evidence?

The Sonic-Liner was presented at the Nuremberg Toy Fair in 2003.

The kit got discontinued in the US in 2006 - see here:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_50...anchor/tm.htm#

I don't think it is necessary to explain again why the model got discontinued.

Usually when a model is not selling well, the price is lowered - see here:

http://modellbau-welt.com/mpx-214190...ex-sonic-liner

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_50...anchor/tm.htm#

Sonicliner kits given away as raffle prices at Fun Fly Racing competitions:

http://www.rclineforum.de/forum/boar...858#post568858

And if you really want one - check here :

http://www.hobbyshop.ch/sonic-liner-compl-set.html

Jürgen
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
Anecdotal evidence?

The Sonic-Liner was presented at the Nuremberg Toy Fair in 2003.

The kit got discontinued in the US in 2006 - see here:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_50...anchor/tm.htm#

I don't think it is necessary to explain again why the model got discontinued.

Usually when a model is not selling well, the price is lowered - see here:

http://modellbau-welt.com/mpx-214190...ex-sonic-liner

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_50...anchor/tm.htm#

Sonicliner kits given away as raffle prices at Fun Fly Racing competitions:

http://www.rclineforum.de/forum/boar...858#post568858

And if you really want one - check here :

http://www.hobbyshop.ch/sonic-liner-compl-set.html

Jürgen
What is your point? Please state the conclusion.

You linked to the same RC Universe thread twice where it's simply noted that Multiplex stopped shipping it to the USA prior to 2006. This is not news.

Why? Presumably because it wasn't profitable...this was never in doubt. Was it because it was an undesirable model? No evidence of that. You'll note that the commenter also says that it was a shame and says that he really likes the model.

Just as a reminder, the suggestion all along in this thread is that HK or another Asian company might be able to sell a clone of this model profitably with different conditions and an opportunity for the model to be quite popular.

As for your "raffle prize evidence," you damned yourself on that one since they were also giving away a Twinjet which we already aknowledged as a successful and popular design.
Besides, giving a non desirable plane away as a raffle prize wouldn't sell many tickets, would it?

As for the link showing in stock in the last link,thank you. Unfortunately, the price would be $258 USD plus undoubtedly expensive shipping. Our currency is relatively weak at the moment. Is this considered expensive over there? What do you expect to pay for a MPX kit?
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
Unfortunately, the price would be $258 USD plus undoubtedly expensive shipping. Our currency is relatively weak at the moment. Is this considered expensive over there? What do you expect to pay for a MPX kit?
There's one reason why the Sonicliner wasn't successful, nobody is going to pay that kind of money for a foam kit. If hobbyking were to sell it as a ARF for around $100, then it might have a chance.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by kov16 View Post
There's one reason why the Sonicliner wasn't successful, nobody is going to pay that kind of money for a foam kit. If hobbyking were to sell it as a ARF for around $100, then it might have a chance.
You're right about this...and it's one more reason why a clone (especially one that comes as an ARF with motors included) has a better chance of succeeding. Plenty of EPO/brushless models, including twin-powered models, sell for mid $100s on Hobbyking.

That said, I recently paid $90 for a much smaller and simpler Funjet Ultra and $110 for a smaller and simpler Dogfighter and I didn't regret either purchase. When a model is good, it's worth the admission price.

Just out of curiosity, how much was the Sonic when it was on US hobby store shelves?
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
What is your point? Please state the conclusion.
...
As for your "raffle prize evidence," you damned yourself on that one since they were also giving away a Twinjet which we already aknowledged as a successful and popular design.
Besides, giving a non desirable plane away as a raffle prize wouldn't sell many tickets, would it?

As for the link showing in stock in the last link,thank you. Unfortunately, the price would be $258 USD plus undoubtedly expensive shipping. Our currency is relatively weak at the moment. Is this considered expensive over there? What do you expect to pay for a MPX kit?
The point is, that the information I provided is based on facts and not just "anecdotal evidence".

The raffle is free for the competitors.

199.- Swiss Francs is approx. $215.- (not $258.-)

This is the price for the "deluxe kit", i.e. with ESC, servos and battery.

Jürgen
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
The point is, that the information I provided is based on facts and not just "anecdotal evidence".
What facts have you illuminated here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
The raffle is free for the competitors.
Ok... then I assume it was used as an enticement to collect more entry fees. no? Besides that, the presence of the "desirable" Twinjet in that raffle spoils your argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
199.- Swiss Francs is approx. $215.- (not $258.-)

This is the price for the "deluxe kit", i.e. with ESC, servos and battery.

Jürgen
Thanks. That's a bit better... At least the servos are good, assuming they're like the red Hitec servos included in other MPX planes. The ESC, Nickel battery and motors will be useless. I'll look into the shipping.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
...
Ok... then I assume it was used as an enticement to collect more entry fees. no? Besides that, the presence of the "desirable" Twinjet in that raffle spoils your argument.
...
Not at all :

Entry was just €10.- and hardly a factor, considering that the winners got cups etc.
The Twin-Jet was a popular model, but in 2004 the sales figures were already going down. The model had already made enough profit and as it was used in a contest with a fairly high attrition rate, so it was only logical to use them to sponsor the competition. For the same reason Robbe provided Projeti kits.

Jürgen
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
Not at all :

Entry was just €10.- and hardly a factor, considering that the winners got cups etc.
The Twin-Jet was a popular model, but in 2004 the sales figures were already going down. The model had already made enough profit and as it was used in a contest with a fairly high attrition rate, so it was only logical to use them to sponsor the competition. For the same reason Robbe provided Projeti kits.

Jürgen
Well, there's one unsubstantiated anecdote. Should we assume that any plane that is raffled off is failing?

In the case that the kits were provided by Multiplex, this was presumably promotional...or do you suppose they were just unloading trash? Do you suppose they would be inclined to promote their brand with a poor quality model?

How exactly do you know that the sales for the Twinjet were also going down?

I really don't think you're going to convince anyone who wants a Sonic Liner clone that they SHOULDN'T want one! We all know what the plane is, what it looks like. What happened 8-9 years ago doesn't impact that.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
...
In the case that the kits were provided by Multiplex, this was presumably promotional...or do you suppose they were just unloading trash? Do you suppose they would be inclined to promote their brand with a poor quality model?
...
I really don't think you're going to convince anyone who wants a Sonic Liner clone that they SHOULDN'T want one!...
I never wrote, that the Sonicliner was a poor quality model. It just wasn't a popular model.

I don't want to convince anyone not wanting a Sonicliner. It's up to personal preference. Fact is however, that it was never a hot-selling kit and most likely it will never become one. And nobody wants to produce something which is not selling. Walkera offered a clone for $165.- including RC, battery and charger. It was no success either.

Jürgen
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
I never wrote, that the Sonicliner was a poor quality model. It just wasn't a popular model.

I don't want to convince anyone not wanting a Sonicliner. It's up to personal preference. Fact is however, that it was never a hot-selling kit and most likely it will never become one. And nobody wants to produce something which is not selling. Walkera offered a clone for $165.- including RC, battery and charger. It was no success either.

Jürgen
Good. We're back to square 1.
It wasn't popular for reasons that are likely no longer valid.

Performance will be vastly better now with affordable brushless/lipo power, costs would be lower (think, Hobbyking), distribution wouldn't even be a problem since HK ships anywhere.


I thought it was determined that the Walkera clone was pretty different...EPP foam, wasn't it? Oddball colors? Never distributed in the USA and possibly not in other markets either?? Correct me where I'm wrong here I'm getting tired of this.

EDIT: Ahh, yes.
Seems that they were produced simultaneously as well.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=89
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
Good. We're back to square 1.
It wasn't popular for reasons that are likely no longer valid.

Performance will be vastly better now with affordable brushless/lipo power, costs would be lower (think, Hobbyking), distribution wouldn't even be a problem since HK ships anywhere.
...
I don't think we are back to square one.

Performance was never a real problem. Even on two Permax 400 the model performed much better than scale. The Sonicliner performed similar to a Twin-Star, which was selling really well.

The price might have been high at first, but even when the price was cut to nearly half, sales did not change that much.

Of course the perfomance would be better with nowadays brushless motors and LiPo batteries, but a Sonicliner going vertical or flying 3D aerobatics would look rather silly, or? There are models available much better suited for this type of flying.

Jürgen
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