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Old Feb 03, 2013, 06:50 PM
Blue Skies
hifinsword's Avatar
United States, VA, Williamsburg
Joined May 2012
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Man, this thread is moving right along. Skip a few days and I'm pages behind. I need some help with a tail motor going WOT, all the time. I thought my tail motor was dying so I swapped it out. But it has the same problem the old one had. As soon as I move the throttle up, it goes full open. It's either WOT or OFF. I guessing the PCB is going. Any seconds on that?
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 06:52 PM
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 07:01 PM
Ain't crashing often anymore
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Germany, Berlin
Joined Jun 2012
3,516 Posts
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Originally Posted by hifinsword View Post
Man, this thread is moving right along. Skip a few days and I'm pages behind. I need some help with a tail motor going WOT, all the time. I thought my tail motor was dying so I swapped it out. But it has the same problem the old one had. As soon as I move the throttle up, it goes full open. It's either WOT or OFF. I guessing the PCB is going. Any seconds on that?
Time to buy a new board *sigh*

-mike-
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 08:16 PM
Slope Soaring Plank Scratcher
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Australia, NSW, Keerrong
Joined Jan 2013
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Originally Posted by Pa flyer View Post
They will work but a better option is the Turnigy 1440A servos from HobbyKing at $3.39 each. Others on this forum said that they are much better than the stock ones. I have two on order myself.
thanks pa.. i found cheap 1440s on HK a couple of minutes after i ordered 9100 ones on banggood

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Old Feb 03, 2013, 09:14 PM
Build the Weapon....
Australia, VIC, Berwick
Joined Jan 2013
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Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
I am using a Skyartec VTS-03B 5g servo on one side, and the
horns (arms) have a different pitch splines for the servo shafts.

The Skyartec arm is shorter, but since it's stiffer, it loses less
travel from flexing.

In short, it works fine.

Also, it your swashplate movement is so extreme as to effect
rotor RPM, you have them set too high anyways.

The RPM drop signifies that the swashplate pivot bushing is
binding on the shaft.

Cyclic input should not effect altitude, and you should be able
to move about, without changing throttle input (if properly balanced
and set up correctly).
The swashplate I am using now (ZR Z101 hybrid) solved my old problem of losing revs when cranking forward. I think it was due to the poor design with no pivot bushing on the std swash or maybe I had a dud. Currently there is no loss of revs with any cyclic input but the reduced range of the Turnigy servo is keeping the heli quite tame.

At the end of the day this bird is probably only good for windless days and warehouse flying so I will probably leave it how it is, but will look at better motor options when I need to replace, I am waiting to see if anyone runs the 180A Pro or the V912 main (with chassis mods) with a larger tail motor.

The 9116 is great work horse for some basic learning and is really helping me get ready for my Storm 450. I have set up the Storm with a pitch curve of +5 at the bottom and +10 at the top (almost an fp setup) so I can transition slowly and will gradually wind in more neg pitch as I go.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 10:37 PM
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 12:26 AM
Build the Weapon....
Australia, VIC, Berwick
Joined Jan 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
CP's don't need as much pitch, as the head speeds are insane.

I'm pretty sure +10 will stall the crap out of the motor, but I could be wrong.

Also, you don't want to introduce much load to the motor until it hits
it's power band, usually at least 50% throttle.

Zero pitch in idle-up (3D) mode is 75% throttle for many sets.

My first CP set was 0 / +5, but it is not recommended to remove negative.
My curve didn't move from zero until 40% throttle.
Graphed, it was a straight line until almost the second half, where it
then climbed in a linear fashion to +5.

A better beginner CP set would be -2 / +6, so you could fight an updraft
if need be, and it helps prepare for idle-up mode.

Then again, what beginner flies in windy conditions?

"Don't Touch the Controls" by Capt. Jack is excellent material.
Did you get a chance to read it?
Your beginner pitch curve sounds pretty good, I tried something similar but had trouble getting used to it slamming down so fast on the initial flights (some indoor attempts that I wouldn't recommend, that broke a skid). Once I have the heli sorted and I am comfortable everything is trimmed out nice I will introduce some negative and get used to using the throttle hold button etc. I agree the neg shouldn't be needed in the first flights as there will be no wind. A lot of guys run +12 it seems with the 450 setup but it sounds a bit steep for me.

I measured the 9116 and it comes out around +15 but as you said a much slower head speed. Theoretically if we got more head speed and a bit more cyclic the 9116 could be good.

I did read Capt Jacks "dont touch the controls" and "3D is not for everybody" threads, some really helpful stuff in there. The 9116 had already taught me with all the indoor hovering not to lean on the sticks, instead just do lots of little short corrections, so one valuable lesson courtesy of the 9116. The V911 is so stable that skill is not necessary.

UPDATE: Today I had an observation that may help you Steve, I am running the same tail engine as you and was also noticing the tail wag recently. You can hear the tail motor changing revs up and down and not holding a steady or linear spin. My main motor finally went today (luckily was only about 10 feet off soft ground) but now when holding the heli without a mains working the tail motors spins perfectly even without hesitation. I wonder if the bad brushes are creating interference through the PCB. I have observed this on the original PCB and the current V912 PCB I have in place. I also rewired the tail motor opposite and although it cant be used it did rev very nicely also. Do you know if the heli the tail motor came from has a reverse pitch rear blade compared with the 9116?
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 12:36 AM
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 01:21 AM
Build the Weapon....
Australia, VIC, Berwick
Joined Jan 2013
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Something strange with my Turnigy servo's today. After some use the range from the bump stops seems to have increased to about the same or more than the std servo. Maybe they need a little wearing in to achieve their full potential?

But the Tx or PCB is only allowing a fraction of the possible travel....might be something to work on.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 02:43 AM
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Canada, BC, New Westminster
Joined Feb 2012
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9x

I have been trying to see how we can use the 9x and get around the rudder issue described in an earlier post this year ( I.e. mike from Germany). I was not able to figure out how to resold this and have reached out for help from the 9xforums specifically from the er9x group. I will let you know what progress I make.

This evening I read a post from the v912 forum where a user has successfully used the 9x running er9x firmware to control the v912.

I believe that laidback_racer posted that he installed the v912 pcb in the 9116 and I'm assuming that it is working well. If this is true, then this is great because I found a user that has setup the 9x running er9x.

Here is the link to the thread on the v912 forum and the fellow indicated he will provide me with the settings he used on the 9x running er9x firmware.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...5#post24027868

I will let you know how I make out with this but it looks promising!
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 02:52 AM
Build the Weapon....
Australia, VIC, Berwick
Joined Jan 2013
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Originally Posted by Mdigiovabc View Post
I have been trying to see how we can use the 9x and get around the rudder issue described in an earlier post this year ( I.e. mike from Germany). I was not able to figure out how to resold this and have reached out for help from the 9xforums specifically from the er9x group. I will let you know what progress I make.

This evening I read a post from the v912 forum where a user has successfully used the 9x running er9x firmware to control the v912.

I believe that laidback_racer posted that he installed the v912 pcb in the 9116 and I'm assuming that it is working well. If this is true, then this is great because I found a user that has setup the 9x running er9x.

Here is the link to the thread on the v912 forum and the fellow indicated he will provide me with the settings he used on the 9x running er9x firmware.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...5#post24027868

I will let you know how I make out with this but it looks promising!
I wouldn't say the V912 PCB is an ideal solution yet. Remember the servo mixing is different, the AIL servo does not move when you apply Forward ELEV. Also it is designed for different output motors perhaps (Steve?) and I have not tested the main motor fully yet as I am waiting on a fresh 9116 main.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post

[ UPDATE ]

I just remembered one of my mods was when I crashed and broke the
pins off of the top shaft, I installed a new pin, and did not get it perfectly
straight. With the old sloppy head it probably didn't matter.

With this new head, maybe it shows up as a larger issue, as there is
no slop to soak up "imperfections". I noticed as I turn the head by hand,
looking at it nose first, when the balance bar is at the 4:00 / 10:00 position,
it gets stiffer to move up and down. Any other spot as you turn it is nice
and free, and the balance bar floats around. But at that one position, it
starts to get stiffer, and the balance bar will get sticky.

Hopefully it's the crooked pins on the top shaft. I also suppose the length
of one or more of my connecting rods could be off. The new mixing arms
put the balls at a slightly different position in relation to the stock balls,
and probably require a small adjustment in length.

I'm putting my money on the not-so-precise blade grip locator pins, since
the balance bar only binds up in one location of a 360 degree rotation.
You're probably right about the pins, but I wonder if your new head just needs to wear in more also. You know how little friction it takes for the heli's flying characteristics to go from perfectly stable to almost out of control. Just the tiniest fraction of a turn in the screw on the pivot arm is all it takes on a stock head.

We have to realize too that when we take an overweight, highly stabilized bird with all that weight hanging under a sloppy head and start lightening and tightening things up that it's not going to fly itself anymore. But isn't that what we were working towards?
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 09:17 AM
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Joined Jan 2013
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Hey all,
As of recently my 9116 seems to be constantly leveling itself off and taking away all of my forward pitch. On top of that, there's a fairly nasty vibration coming from somewhere. The blades aren't perfectly balanced but the vibration seems to be more than that. I bought this bird off of a friend who sent it down HARD several times and gave up. Had to replace the canopy, blades, landing skid, and throw on a new tailset. Hasn't hit the ground since and it seemed to be flying a lot better before I replaced everything. Everything passes the eye test but I'm wondering if I have a bent main shaft. Any ideas? The vibration is annoying, but my forward pitch cutting out is a bigger concern. It's a pretty boring bird when it wants to stop itself every 20 feet.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 09:54 AM
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Joined Aug 2012
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Originally Posted by ajohnson677 View Post
Hey all,
As of recently my 9116 seems to be constantly leveling itself off and taking away all of my forward pitch. On top of that, there's a fairly nasty vibration coming from somewhere. The blades aren't perfectly balanced but the vibration seems to be more than that. I bought this bird off of a friend who sent it down HARD several times and gave up. Had to replace the canopy, blades, landing skid, and throw on a new tailset. Hasn't hit the ground since and it seemed to be flying a lot better before I replaced everything. Everything passes the eye test but I'm wondering if I have a bent main shaft. Any ideas? The vibration is annoying, but my forward pitch cutting out is a bigger concern. It's a pretty boring bird when it wants to stop itself every 20 feet.
I think that you're right: it sounds like a bent main shaft. You can take it out and roll it on a piece of glass to see if it's bent. Or you can just take the head off and spool it up to check it out.

As far as losing forward pitch: If you take the head off to check the main shaft, spool it up and hold forward cyclic and looking from the rear of the bird, watch to see if the servo arms maintain position or if they drop down. If they're dropping I would suspect a damaged pcb. I can't think of anything else that would arrest forward movement without cyclic input. It's very unlikely that it would be a tx problem. I'm assuming that the swashplate is adjusted properly and that it will hover well without moving rearward.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 10:21 AM
Just a 9116 flyer.
Rajah235's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Wollongong
Joined Dec 2012
624 Posts
Laidback_racer wrote..
Quote:
A potential problem with the Turnigy's is the servo arm throw looks to be quite a bit shorter than the stock items.
The 1440's come with a selection of arms or at least, mine did.
I just used the same length one as the stock but there is also a longer one.
As for the end stops? was it? changing... I'd be checking your EPA's are not set too high.
Start from scratch with no arm on the servo & centralise the trims etc, then replace the arm
& see what happens. Maybe drop your %'s down a tad?
As you know...the gearbox has mechanical stops in them. They will not go further than about 120/140 Degs full throw, normally.
If you set them in-correctly, you'll strip gears or burn the tiny motor out.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention...
I've joined the Fixed Wing Club as well.
Bought myself a foamie electric glider.
Has a brushless motor, ESC etc & is 4 channel. All this for $56.00 Aus.
Had to buy some small 2S 500 mAh batteries coz the heli ones don't fit, plus a few spares I think I'll need.

& the DD tail motors/props have finally arrived.
A tight fit in the original mounting but after applying a little heat, the motor finally bedded down nicely.
Not fitted yet coz I've only just replaced the tail assy.

No more on the S 16D bits.
Geez, they're slow.
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Last edited by Rajah235; Feb 04, 2013 at 10:56 AM.
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