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Old Jan 26, 2013, 11:42 AM
Mr. Crash and Burn
Joined Jan 2013
430 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
Some people remove negative pitch so the heli flies like an FP heli. I disagree with that philosophy. Negative pitch allows you to fight wind better. Admittedly, this is something of an academic point, since it really doesn't matter what you are flying; when you are a beginner, wind is not your friend. I prefer a more gentle pitch curve, say 8 or 9 of positve pitch and about 3 of negative pitch. I like linear throttle and pitch curves for beginners. I have also seen some that are flat to start with and steeper at higher throttle settings. That gives you a little more low speed room. That depends on the heli.

A lot of discussion around these settings presumes Trex 450 (or clone) helis. They are helis with a head designed for 3D, so response is very quick and harsh, no smoothness or granularity. They need all the help they can get from the transmitter to smooth them down and make them pleasant to fly. If you are going to buy a flybar heli, buy Thunder Tiger. Flybarless is really the way to go now and depending on the heli and flybarless control system, you may not have much to adjust on the transmitter, or you may have more.

Make no mistake, going from a 9116 to any CP heli is a huge step. The best way to make it easier, is try something that makes the transition smaller, like a quad or 120SR.
yes i agree going from a fp to a cp is a big step and i finally got to fly my first quad they are amazing and a good trainer towards stepping up to a cp heli my first ever cp flight was horrible cause i was so used to a 3 chan coaxial so it might be smart to start to climb the ladder starting with a 3 chan coaxial then a 4 chan like the 9116 then next step would be a quad then to a full blown cp 3d heli
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 11:56 AM
Just a 9116 flyer.
Rajah235's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Wollongong
Joined Dec 2012
623 Posts
Turnigy 1440A servos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pa flyer View Post
Those of you that are using the Turnigy servos: what do you think of them? Are they a worthwhile upgrade over the stock servos? Do they have less slop in the geartrain?

Any body using something else that you think is better and is the same size? I don't want to have to modify the sideplates to accept them.
They work very well & are a direct swap for the original servos.
No need to mod anything.
Much better all round with hardly any "slop" at all.
At present, I've only changed the LHS one, because of the tendency for the arm to slide up the pushrod.
I fixed that by using a DUBRO #929 ball socket. (Check this thread or my blog for details & pics.)

L..
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 12:10 PM
San Mateo, CA
HPCR's Avatar
United States, CA, Foster City
Joined Dec 2012
1,030 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
Some people remove negative pitch so the heli flies like an FP heli. I disagree with that philosophy. Negative pitch allows you to fight wind better. Admittedly, this is something of an academic point, since it really doesn't matter what you are flying; when you are a beginner, wind is not your friend. I prefer a more gentle pitch curve, say 8 or 9 of positve pitch and about 3 of negative pitch. I like linear throttle and pitch curves for beginners. I have also seen some that are flat to start with and steeper at higher throttle settings. That gives you a little more low speed room. That depends on the heli.

A lot of discussion around these settings presumes Trex 450 (or clone) helis. They are helis with a head designed for 3D, so response is very quick and harsh, no smoothness or granularity. They need all the help they can get from the transmitter to smooth them down and make them pleasant to fly. If you are going to buy a flybar heli, buy Thunder Tiger. Flybarless is really the way to go now and depending on the heli and flybarless control system, you may not have much to adjust on the transmitter, or you may have more.

Make no mistake, going from a 9116 to any CP heli is a huge step. The best way to make it easier, is try something that makes the transition smaller, like a quad or 120SR.
I am on the same track. I have handful of V911, 2 DH 9116 and I am learning a lot about repair and other things. So the next step is the CP and I got my first Walkera Mini CP just yesterday ( a 2nd one is on the way with a bunch of spare parts). Last night I charged the battery, I had a DEVO 7E which I bought separately a few weeks back so I could start the learning cycle for the TX, programmed the beginner settings and the Stunt versions complete with curves etc. Then it was time to get this thing in the air ( indoors) . Which I did. I was happy about it because I read about lots of folks that are unable to get the bird to fly for days. My initial thoughts ( in addition to the fact that the construction of the Mini CP is not THAT strongly built) is that it's a brand new hobby. managing the throttle and cyclic is basically totally differently and trying to get rid of the 4channel FB habits is another level of learning. I am thinking that once you have decided to go 6-channel CP, you might just as well sell all the 4 channel stuff and jump into this new hobby feet-first and wallet first too.You "put" a 6 channel CP in a position and you correct with your controls and "put" it in the next position. It does not fly itself, every move is a deliberate move that " moves" the heli from one position in space to another position in space. So hovering is the key to getting to understand what this thing does and how it does it. My initial suggestion to the noobees is to find a space that is unobstructed, 30-30 feet at the very minimum. That will save you lots of $ in spare parts / repair in the first weeks. In the first evening my canopy has collapsed ( it is actually completely crap) and the landing gear is missing a tiny piece due to me setting the heli down solidly with the help of the negative pitch . Oh and did I mention you better get a trigger finger on that Throttle hold button. More to come for sure but having fun. I bet I am going to find a whole lot of gotcha's. It's all in the realm of Big Boys Toys!
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 12:15 PM
San Mateo, CA
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United States, CA, Foster City
Joined Dec 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laidback_racer View Post
The move from fp to cp is an interesting area. I am in the transition and noticing there are two camps with regard to pitch and throttle curves, which seems to be the major area of contention.

Moving from a 9116 to a cp heli can be a big step, but it can also be easy perhaps?

If there is anyone in this process, if so what throttle & pitch curves are you adopting?
Look in the forums, there is a special STICKY tread on settings for Walkera's and others, complete with comments and even some videos on how to program your TX settings. Do a search.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 01:53 PM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2012
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Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajah235 View Post
They work very well & are a direct swap for the original servos.
No need to mod anything.
Much better all round with hardly any "slop" at all.
At present, I've only changed the LHS one, because of the tendency for the arm to slide up the pushrod.
I fixed that by using a DUBRO #929 ball socket. (Check this thread or my blog for details & pics.)

L..
Thanks Rajah. I went to order two but HobbyKing is out of stock so I guess I'll have to wait awhile.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 04:17 PM
RTF (Ready to Fragment)
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United States, WI, Beloit
Joined Nov 2012
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DH 9116 and MJX-F645 Side by Side

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Last edited by Steve_; Apr 21, 2013 at 07:55 AM.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 06:04 PM
Build the Weapon....
Australia, VIC, Berwick
Joined Jan 2013
907 Posts
Thanks to those with advice on moving from fp to cp. I have read much and there seems to be two camps on how to setup beginner pitch and throttle curves. One camp going for the more aggressive zero middle stick pitch and high neg pitch at the bottom which is good for future idle up flying (if I go there) and the other to set up a 6deg pos pitch at mid stick and a low neg pitch at the bottom. I think I will go with the latter in the beginning and also employ a dual rate lower than 100% with some expo dialed in also. Was thinking of setting up 2 slightly more aggressive idle1 & 2 settings so i have the ability to counter gusty conditions if needed at the flick of a switch. It all sounds good but will probably be different in real life, but if the curves are set up more like a fp to begin with, the transition hopefully will be easier and less likely to drill the heli into the ground.

I have a Storm 450 with devo 7 hopefully arriving this week, and I have also scored a copy of phoenix sim which will be a starting place to test my curves.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 06:23 PM
Build the Weapon....
Australia, VIC, Berwick
Joined Jan 2013
907 Posts
I have also been working on the 9116. I have the ZR Z101 head in place and the Turnigy servo's mounted, now just waiting on the V912 PCB and hoping it will work.

The ZR head required a modified ZR shaft that had to be drilled out to suit the 9116. Also the swash with brass ball is ZR top and 9116 bottom (9116 part needs to have retaining lip filed off). The design of the head is superior IMO with the lower dog bones in a more vertical position. Video's of the ZR look incredibility stable so I am Keen to test the results.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 08:38 PM
cut cut cut... ****!
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United States, PA, Birdsboro
Joined Dec 2012
65 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pa flyer View Post
Thanks Rajah. I went to order two but HobbyKing is out of stock so I guess I'll have to wait awhile.
Hey Pa if depending on where you are located I have 2 spare 1440A servos if you wanted them a little quicker.

I have had them for a while and haven't had to even replace one yet.

If so let me know.

John
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:37 PM
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 11:13 PM
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United States, WI, Beloit
Joined Nov 2012
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DH 9116 with HK250GT Canopy

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Old Jan 26, 2013, 11:31 PM
Build the Weapon....
Australia, VIC, Berwick
Joined Jan 2013
907 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
The swash looks great, nicer than the 9104 part.

Very nice work, I think that I will be cloning your creation

The 1440's will make a big difference in control as well. Coupled with
your upgraded head and swashplate, it should be rock solid stable.
Thanks, but it might pay to wait till I test, it may not have the same forward movement as the stock swash. I also have a V912 swash on the way which may be better as its designed for the longer travel V912 servo's?. If only the delivery times were more bearable.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 07:52 AM
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Joined Aug 2012
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Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkoosh27 View Post
Hey Pa if depending on where you are located I have 2 spare 1440A servos if you wanted them a little quicker.

I have had them for a while and haven't had to even replace one yet.

If so let me know.

John
Thanks for the offer John, but HK already got them in stock again and I ordered two.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 12:37 PM
Blue Skies
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United States, VA, Williamsburg
Joined May 2012
1,289 Posts
3D is NOT for everyone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laidback_racer View Post
The move from fp to cp is an interesting area. I am in the transition and noticing there are two camps with regard to pitch and throttle curves, which seems to be the major area of contention.

Moving from a 9116 to a cp heli can be a big step, but it can also be easy perhaps?

If there is anyone in this process, if so what throttle & pitch curves are you adopting?
I haven't bought a CP helo yet but I've been reading up on the "3D is NOT for everyone" thread here (link below) and like the settings recommended by CaptJac. Lots of food for thought if you do go CP.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1651066
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 01:04 PM
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Joined Aug 2012
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Weighted blades

I thought I would try a little experiment on one of my lightened 9116s and put a screw and nut at the blade tips to weight them.

What I hoped was that this would help to overcome the flybar's effect and make the heli continue on the path of the last cyclic input like a 6 ch enabling me to use it as a trainer. I had noticed that my other extremely lightened 9116 with 9.5 gr flybar weights showed this tendency, though not to the degree exhibited by my 6 ch.

Well, my experiment was a flop. The heli was much more stable with reduced cyclic response and less power and acted almost like a stock 9116.
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