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Old Dec 23, 2012, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by rexless View Post
What a great love fest! LOL
My two cents, I agree with the rest of the folks. Chris built me a great quad and although I haven't yet flown it to it's potential I have flown it enough to know it is well built and its exactly what he promised it would be. I have no doubt that once winter fades I'll be flying like a bat outta hell.
The group on the forum are great as well. I know I'll learn a ton and hopefully contribute along the way!

Now to see if I can find a good place to fly... There's 20cm of snow everywhere I look...
You need one of these. They work in snow too!

http://aquacopters.gostorego.com/
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 05:39 PM
Mosquito 6
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Originally Posted by bobepine View Post
You clearly know a lot more about metal than I do. That said, the boss at the CNC factory has been in the business for over 40 years. I have a feeling that if he wanted to use heat to make the squid arms, he had a good reason for doing so. Perhaps he just wanted to be on the safe side.
Well, I gotta couple years on'em .. I started at Westinghouse Marine Division in '66 and had my own shop till '98. If it's fresh stock T-6, he can safely brake (air bend) cross-grain down to 4t bend (inside) radius with no problem. The caveate within the above statement is fresh stock .. T-6 will continue to naturally age sitting in the stock rack, and I still gotta chunk of 3 1/2" diameter T-6 here to prove it He's your guy .. I'm just trying to be helpful .. help keep your costs down so you can make a profit and grow your business

Quote:
Anyways, you seem to be misunderstanding what parts use what metal, which is probably my fault for not writing this succinctly enough. The arms remain 4mm. And the center plates remain 1051 1.6mm. Just one extra set of center plates will be cut using 2mm 6061alumi.
I still don't know what the heck un-alloy 1051 is, but my opinion is .. I'd rather have that extra 16 thou of thickness in T-6 .. either 6061 or even better, 7075. Perhaps I may still be not understanding you clearly. The FC ,, now rigidity fixed with fasteners for your KK2 board, will be moved to the top equipment tier, and the builder will have to adapt. I have both the Rabbit and Crius AIO Pro here .. and while I'd Never use a Naza .. it's gotta be mounted with dampeners .. there are so many variations. The equipment tiers can be made from G-10 or CF, or even acrylic. Also, builders may want to mount their esc's inboard for whatever reason.

Quote:
Weight is always something I have to try to cut down and future releases will keep getting better in that department, though, at some point, reducing weight will affect strength too much so it's a matter of finding the right balance. One thing is certain, I'd rather build something that is slightly heavier than most models out there that use G10 and CF because that just breaks too easily.
I echo your sentiments 100% Chris. While the FPV and A/P guys are not interested in aggressive manouvers more frought with unplanned "landings", they can easily have a grands' worth of goodies on your frame .. even a small 510mm hex. They want stuff that won't break, and that doesn't transmit rotor vibrations to the FC or cam.

Quote:
This is how this whole frame making thing started. I wanted to make something strong for myself because I was tired of breaking frames every second flight. So the idea is to use make up for the weight addition with the proper specs. Mind you, the 355 clocks in at only about 30 grams heavier than the Whartox frame. I also have a V3 version in the works for the Armattan CNC frame and I think I will be able to reduce the weight by about 25 grams while retaining very good strength. The idea is to remove metal wherever it doesn't add structural strength and this is where the difference will be made with the V3. This same idea is implemented on the new hexa design.

Stay tuned...

Best,
Chris
A 510mm hexa is limited to 10" prop with a quarter inch tip to tip clearance .. that's cuttin' it pretty close there. Just maybe something to think on if you perhaps consider scaling to larger sizes and octos. I like the cnc lightning cutouts, and the offset will ameliorate both standing wave rotor vibrations and rotor wash beating down on the arm itself. Antennae ground plane .. another plus. Pancakes like the MT4008 have 19 x 25 mounting holes .. maybe add two holes, giving both 19 x 16 and 19 x 25. I have some more coming in from Poland, but I don't know that I could get them to work hard enough with a 10" prop.

Happy Holidays to All
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 08:38 PM
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I'm really enjoying the information being shared on design here.

Seeing as how I've been laid up with the flu for the past week () I've had a fair bit of time to contemplate the whole power system apparent contradictions.

I think the key is that all the published information is for steady state conditions. Something that just doesn't happen for multi-rotors, especially for the ones that Chris develops. As others have stated, it's pretty much physically impossible to run at maximum power for any sustained period of time. So although the limits may be there, if you're never able to produce that condition in "real life" then it's not particularly relevant.

What occurred to me today is that what *is* important is dynamic response. The improvements in real life flight performance that people have reported with fast response speed controls (aka SimonK) is an indicator of this. Determining the best combinations of motor & propeller for dynamic response is not something that tools seem to exist for. So we can only go by the try and fly approach.

I was reminded that back in the day, dyno testing of car race engines was all about peak horsepower. Apparently now they do dynamic testing, determining the power for a specific rate of acceleration. I surmise it's turned out that dynamic response here is more important too.

I'd still like to know about efficiency though, what's the best way to get the required power out ... is it in a system at a lower throttle setting or do other losses come along?

I'm still staggered by the development over the past decade (since I was last flying). These quads would have been impossible back then!

cheers,
Andrew
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 10:24 PM
Fly Fast, Fly Hard, Fly Fun
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Canada, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan's Flyin View Post
You need one of these. They work in snow too!
http://aquacopters.gostorego.com/
Oh yeah! A floating version would be most helpful for summers at the lake. I did manage to get out today and do some flying and most importantly I got it on video. Again, nothing too fancy, just trying to get used to the Devo 10 and the M370 while avoiding anything that might result in a crash. So far so good. I'm pretty sure I got to at least 90% throttle today - I can't believe how fast this thing can disappear. It's also incredibly stable. I'll have to find a better way to mount the camera though. Right now it's just zip-tied onto the top with a rubber pad under the camera.

Seems I was wrong or maybe forgot to fully charge the battery last time. I was down to about 11.3v after around 7 minutes in the air. I would say that's some decent flight time considering how bloody fast this thing goes!

Armattan M370 Winter Flight (7 min 31 sec)
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 04:38 PM
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USA, OR, Hillsboro
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Short indoor video of my Armattan 230

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=40
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 04:53 PM
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Neat, sure looks cold though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rexless View Post
Oh yeah! A floating version would be most helpful for summers at the lake. I did manage to get out today and do some flying and most importantly I got it on video. Again, nothing too fancy, just trying to get used to the Devo 10 and the M370 while avoiding anything that might result in a crash. So far so good. I'm pretty sure I got to at least 90% throttle today - I can't believe how fast this thing can disappear. It's also incredibly stable. I'll have to find a better way to mount the camera though. Right now it's just zip-tied onto the top with a rubber pad under the camera.

Seems I was wrong or maybe forgot to fully charge the battery last time. I was down to about 11.3v after around 7 minutes in the air. I would say that's some decent flight time considering how bloody fast this thing goes!

http://youtu.be/gb08l6_QMS4
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 05:02 PM
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Hey Chris I was wondering if you were still taking orders, if so id be interested in ordering a CNC 335mm RXR and if possible I would like to have it all black. Let me know what's up thanks and merry x-mas to all

Jack
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 06:43 PM
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USA, OR, Hillsboro
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230 frame with ESC

Hi Chris put me on the list for a plain 230 frame with all hardware and top plate, I want to try a build with one of my Quadrino FC boards and some motors I have on hand.

Thanks,
Jerry
jsflyrv
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Last edited by jsflyrv; Dec 25, 2012 at 12:17 AM.
Old Dec 24, 2012, 07:22 PM
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United States, MO
Joined Apr 2009
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CNC 510 Squid

Hey guys I can't believe it, but my order from Chris showed up today.....including the "Squid"! Putting it together now. I have the frame together, should be done in a couple of hours or so............It will fly tomorrow!! Thanks Chris!
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 09:10 PM
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that's looking great Bryan, what material is the black layer above your power board?
@ rexless, jsflyrv, yours are flying good, that 230 sounds like a mean little bugger and rock solid stable hover.
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 09:56 PM
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Bryan, I like Chris's new center plates a lot. I can't wait to see the top secret he is sending.
Why the upside down mounting for the HK distribution board?

Thurmond
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 12:14 AM
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Chris,

All of the RXR quads I purchased from you had all three wires from each ESC connected to the KK2 except the last quad. It only used all three wires from ESC #1 and then the signal wire only from the other three ESC. Is this required for all ESCs or just the RCX ESCs?

BTW, you forgot to drill the center plate holes in the unpainted arms and all the landing gear holes in all the arms of the last two frame kits I just received. No big deal, it just goes to show you're human and not a machine.

Merry Christmas,

Jim
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 12:28 AM
Cotton Headed Ninny Muggins
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Canada, ON, Kapuskasing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Frahm View Post
Chris,

All of the RXR quads I purchased from you had all three wires from each ESC connected to the KK2 except the last quad. It only used all three wires from ESC #1 and then the signal wire only from the other three ESC. Is this required for all ESCs or just the RCX ESCs?

BTW, you forgot to drill the center plate holes in the unpainted arms and all the landing gear holes in all the arms of the last two frame kits I just received. No big deal, it just goes to show you're human and not a machine.

Merry Christmas,

Jim
Works for all esc's I'm pretty sure.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 12:34 AM
Mosquito 6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banjo5 View Post
I'm really enjoying the information being shared on design here.

I'd still like to know about efficiency though, what's the best way to get the required power out ... is it in a system at a lower throttle setting or do other losses come along?

cheers,
Andrew
The higher the voltage .. the lower the efficiency. Higher throttle .. lower efficiency. Higher KV .. lower efficiency. Pancakes cost two or three times as much as the little hot rod high KV motors, but with up to twice the efficiency .. which means greater payload capacity and/or endurance (flight time).

Even with my motors, the charts tell the storey. Here is the Original Thrust Table from Rctigermotor:

Name: MT4008 Thrust Table.jpg
Views: 76
Size: 247.1 KB
Description: The Original MT4008 Thrust/Efficiency Table

Even with this premium motor, efficiencies suffer by over half from 15.61 down to 7.3 grams of thrust per watt. The Current Mfgr table presented for this motor, takes it out to now 8S:

http://www.rctigermotor.com/show.php?contentid=149

While it remains to be seen if there is a practical application for using six motors to generate 2.8 Kg of thrust with only 180 watts (endurance aircraft), it's certainly inspiring

Next Up .. Happy New Year

Addenda: Using TM ECS's is Gospel. Best price .. http://www.multirotor.co/product_inf...roducts_id=134
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 12:44 AM
Mosquito 6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan's Flyin View Post
Hey guys I can't believe it, but my order from Chris showed up today.....including the "Squid"! Putting it together now. I have the frame together, should be done in a couple of hours or so............It will fly tomorrow!! Thanks Chris!
Bryan .. we'll keep our fingers crossed you have good flying weather back there tomorrow .. Christmas Day. Did you happen to note the the completed frame weight .. sans any elecronics (motors, esc's etc) ?


Good Luck Tomorrow
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