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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:56 AM
Plowin Dirt
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USA, WA, Benton City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimbeaver View Post
I find it amusing that you speak of having a standard test but then state you buy MaxAmps. They make some of the most absurd claims about their batteries out of anyone out there and refuse to provide any test data to back up their claims.
I believe you utterly missed my point. I stated, "I'd like to see a standard test that every pack mfg. is required to use before their products hit the market." That would include MaxAmps as well as every vendor peddling lipos. I can't attest to your statement wherein you say they refuse to provide any test data. I've never asked Clint or Justin for test data. Also take take note of the OP query wherein the question raised was, "..wanted to know if any of the high dollar cost > $190 batteries are worth buying?" I merely expressed my opinion on my choice of packs. I never stated any high dollar packs are any better or worse then less expensive packs much less worth buying.

As long as there's no valid laboratory test data to support/validate any vendors claims of performance, then I'm of the opinion it's whatever works for any given individual and their needs.

Until some type of standards are set, it just remains a crap shoot. It's just that simple. Compare this to the electric motors, glow engines, servos, etc. currently in use in todays RC usage. Each of those have a 'standard'. So why not lipo packs? Or any other types of battery packs utilized in the hobby? The door has been left open for any vendor to make any claims they desire to promote their product. Unfortunately, the end user (s) pays the price in finding out a given product doesn't meet the advertised specs. In the meantime, the vendor made a bunch of money for a basically bad product.

I'm not going to promote and swear to one lipo over another. It's just to controversial and subjective. I just know what's worked for me with no issues. Pretty much the same as a lot of others here.

If all the individuals currently in the RC world would care to formulate a group and demand a set of testing standards, then perhaps the end users would have some better choices, better products and better prices to choose from. Until that happens, it's looking like every individual is on their own and those mfgs. with crappy products will continue to proliferate and grab your $$. It's the old divide & conquer scheme and the lipo suppliers have played it extremely well. If you believe I'm wrong, how many packs have you purchased only to 'discover' they were junk? Pardon me, it should read, "less then advertised."

Respective of the OP question, I'm not certain anyone can honestly provide an answer that has no bias in some manner or form.

Just my 25 worth. (inflation )

Dan
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 06:31 AM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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Quote:
Until some type of standards are set, it just remains a crap shoot. It's just that simple. Compare this to the electric motors, glow engines, servos, etc. currently in use in todays RC usage. Each of those have a 'standard'
Really as in motors having a Kv rating which is very often by plus or minus 10% , a volts and watts rating which is really one or the other not both ,. servos even ones from major suppliers such as Hitec without full specifications.


The Battery graaph vault was created here many years ago so members could bost real battery test results to help stop some of the wild claims made about battery performance. How many even glance at any of the Sticky Threads. Uniform / standarized LiPoly test would lead to cells being developed that would perform best for the test.

Some want sprinters,some want distance runners, some want heavy lifters, some want lite and agile some want as cheap as possible , some want extremly long life. Fact is most only know what they want until they get it and then they want something else entirely.

Charles
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 06:57 AM
Way to many airplanes!
Canada, QC
Joined Oct 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrforsyth View Post
Hyperion G3 batteries were released nearly 4 years ago and are still among the best overall performing lipolys available anywhere so the notion that electrochemical battery technology is rapidly progressing with yearly advancements just doesn't ring true, at least in my analysis. How I wish this were true though...

Mark
One of the big selling point of Hyperion was the 5C charge rate. Now, only 4 years later, cheap battery have 12C to 15C charging rate (charging a battery two to three times faster, if your charger can cope with it, was a great asset 4 years, ago, it's still true today).

Today's cheap battery have rating up to 130C. They may not give close to that, but they still give much more than the 45C the 4 year old Hyperion was giving.


Sure enough, it depend on the number of cycles you plan to use your batteries for. I would say that with small batteries (3S and less, 2200mah and less), cheap brands are an asset because you'll likely rake hundreds and hundreds of flights per summer. (we're talking parkflier here...) For the large battery, sticking with top brands is good because normally, you fly those a lot less per year. If you fly your large bird 50 times a year, then it's better to get some batteries that will be good for it for many years to come. You won't replace your airplane any time soon, and the battery that are good today will still be good enough for that airplane 4 years from now.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deckert View Post

Compare this to the electric motors, glow engines, servos, etc. currently in use in todays RC usage. Each of those have a 'standard'.
Where is the 'standard' that defines the testing procedure under which each of these tests and measurements is conducted? If it is a standard then each vendor should be using the same process to conduct each of these tests and the testing procedure should be available to the public.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 09:53 AM
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So. Cal.
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Originally Posted by RealGambler View Post
Today's cheap battery have rating up to 130C.
Which clearly demonstrates that the willingness to deceive regarding discharge capabilities has become more commonplace.

I personally have never seen any testing that shows that a lipoly pack can repeatedly withstand a discharge greater than 45C and survive without being damaged.

Of course there have been improvements over the past 3-4 years but they have been very modest at best, and certainly nowhere near what the labels would suggest.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 09:59 AM
I think I'm inverted. Maybe.
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United States, CA, Pacifica
Joined Apr 2012
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I really, REALLY want to test a MaxAmps "100C" pack - since their release, the company has been pretty active on the forums with other products, but refuses to comment on or provide test data on their high-C packs.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 10:16 AM
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United States, MN
Joined Feb 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deckert View Post
I believe you utterly missed my point. I stated, "I'd like to see a standard test that every pack mfg. is required to use before their products hit the market." That would include MaxAmps as well as every vendor peddling lipos. I can't attest to your statement wherein you say they refuse to provide any test data. I've never asked Clint or Justin for test data. Also take take note of the OP query wherein the question raised was, "..wanted to know if any of the high dollar cost > $190 batteries are worth buying?" I merely expressed my opinion on my choice of packs. I never stated any high dollar packs are any better or worse then less expensive packs much less worth buying.
I didn't miss your point and I apologize if you thought I was attacking you as that was not my intention.

As for MaxAmps refusing to supply test data, here's one of many threads:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1323001
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:52 PM
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All that counts is how people vote with their wallets. And the reality is that the expensive Lipo gig is up. The generics are now prevalent at the field, and the local LHS are also catching on to the wisdom of ordering HK / Gens Ace / Rhino / Blue etc and reselling to hobbyists. Two years ago, the owner of the LHS told me that he'd never carry "cheap Chinese packs" and that he only carried TP because it was the best. I was in there 2 weeks ago and the display case was full of Turnigy and Zippy. The few remaining Thunderpowers were in a box marked "closeout". Same applies to ESCs and motors. Like any generic product, you trade some performance for a big price drop. Run this stuff well within spec, and you will be happy with it and it will last many cycles.

Competitive events such as Pattern, F3A, pylon, high power EDF etc are another matter. Here, the premium packs will make a difference and are worth the extra cost to competitors.

My personal experience is with the various HK brands and 3 Thunder Power packs purchased early on. The TP stuff has simply not held up well. Capacity is down and power is lacking. I fly only Turnigy / Zippy at this point and I am very happy with performance.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:37 PM
WATTSUP.SE
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Sweden
Joined Dec 2001
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As long as you stay away from HK your fine (mostly). There are as stated in this tread already other much better lower cost LiPo packs, GensAce is one example, and there actually built good with safety and quality in mind. Now if you open up a few packs from HK and inspect, personally i can get nightmares for less, and there capacity and C rating have always been off to way off. I havent found any Turnigy, Nano, Rhino or whatever there called this week that even is close to live up to its spec.

The trend here is the opposite, no more silly labled HK packs but instead abit higher price packs that has better quality, safety, performance, cycle life. Everyone dont need or want the top priced batteries, but most of the time it goes hand in hand with quality cells and a good built packs that is designed in a good way to fit RC applications.

I have used Lixx for many years, and make alot of research and tests, nowadays i design/ construct batteries for some brands in both RC and industrial use. I also help shops and distributors with technical support specially with batteries and often if they are having problems. With this i see it from different directions, as a flyer/ user, designer and tester, if there is problems i see that to but it has given me alot of insight and experience.

If youre looking for low cost, dont aim for the cheapest avalible, raise the bar some and pay little extra. There are some brands today that can give the punch, but very few that is in my book built good so it can survive and withstand our type of abuse and usage, most packs have very poor protection for the sensitive cells inside. If we ad C rating, most brands packs cant deliver the claimed C rate, the soderings, wires, terminal welds and connectors cant handle it, the cells might be "60C" and may very well be abel to deliver that, but thats one cell with forced cooling in the lab and the discharge wires soldered directly to the tabs, not in a batterie pack with wires, connectors and everything else.

Just my 2 cents in the subject.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 09:57 PM
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Des Moines IA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrforsyth View Post
Rclipos.com and allerc.com are my favorites.

Mark
Thanks for the info.

I have another question if you could help.

I'm looking for the lightest weight lipo that would be able to handle 35 amps constant.
MicroDans 2505-2800 speed motor in a wing. Running a 6x4 apc or graupner5.5x4.3.
Is there a 1300to1800 mah hyperion lipo that you could recomend.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 05:55 AM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
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Quote:
'm looking for the lightest weight lipo that would be able to handle 35 amps constant.

I guess you missed comment about weight in post #34.

Thunder Powers have been the leader in this respect since forever. You will need a ProPower45

If you pull 35A cont. from a 1700 mAh then flights are going to be just over two minutes.

Charles
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 04:15 PM
Battery Puffer
Orange, California, United States
Joined Nov 2001
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Charles, here are the results I get when testing a Dinogy pack against a Thunderpower. I wonder since TP cycles and matches all the packs they make if their not sending you the best they can. I know I would if I were in there shoes and could do that.

Mark
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkF View Post
Charles, here are the results I get when testing a Dinogy pack against a Thunderpower. I wonder since TP cycles and matches all the packs they make if their not sending you the best they can. I know I would if I were in there shoes and could do that.

Mark
What's your test equipment setup?
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 04:45 PM
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USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkF View Post
Charles, here are the results I get when testing a Dinogy pack against a Thunderpower. I wonder since TP cycles and matches all the packs they make if their not sending you the best they can. I know I would if I were in there shoes and could do that.

Mark
Also, are you planning on doing any long term testing? It would be interesting to see how the Dino holds up against the TP after 100, 200, and 300 cycles, assuming both packs make it to 300 cycles.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 05:03 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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Mark any thing is possible even that you purchased sub par TPs. I purchased two TP 25C 1S 240 for one of my micros and one was below par and the other one sucked big time yet most in the micro threads rave about how great they are.

You tested 6000s and I tested 2250s and I have seen very different results in the past even between 2200 and 3300 from the same manufacture and with the same C ratings. I have purchased Thunder Powers from Dragon Fly and rclipos and results were same as ones from TP. Years ago when many were testing LiPolys and posting in the BGV results matched very closely with batteries purchased from different sources.

Charles
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