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Old Nov 17, 2012, 05:07 PM
3D? I only got two thumbs!
United States, MA
Joined Jul 2012
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Today was a nice day here, a number of guys turned up at the field to take advantage of it. There were often several planes in the air at once. I had my flight timer set to 5:00, giving me a reasonable margin to get down with plenty of juice to spare after a flight of harrier practice which was my intention.

What actually happened was a less skilled pilot's moves got me thinking my plane would be safer higher up, so I ended up doing more traditional aerobatics, which use a bit more juice. Two other guys who were up yelled that they had to land almost simultaneously with my timer going off. First one crashed on the runway. Some delay while the plane was retrieved. Second guy was a little rattled by the first guys crash, he took a little longer getting down. Finally I got to land. Lipo measured 10.79 volts. If my flight had gone as planned it would have ended somewhere around 11.3, like all my other flights today.

The point is, no matter how good your intentions circumstances beyond your control can cause you to abuse a lipo. The pack in question was a $20 glacier, I would be a little more dismayed if it had been the comparable $60 thunder power.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 02:21 AM
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Letchworth, Great Britain (UK)
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The good news thought, Aeroken, is that because you were using a timer you were able to stay up until the runway was clear. If you'd been flying until lvc kicked in you would have had no option.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:12 AM
3D? I only got two thumbs!
United States, MA
Joined Jul 2012
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Very true abenn. But then again if I was flying to LVC I wouldn't be treating my batteries nicely in the first place :-)
I usually parallel charge, but today I'll bring that lipo up from it's storage charge separately so I can check the IR and see if it's changed.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:45 AM
PGR
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United States, CA, Costa Mesa
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Yesterday at the flying field:

Went to the field for an afternoon session with my 3DHS Vyper. There was another fellow there with another Vyper who became obsessed with learning why mine had so much more power than his and why I was getting 2 minutes more flight time per pack than he was.

So we did a component-by-component comparison and the only significant difference in our planes was he was using Gens Ace 3S packs and the prop 3DHS suggests for 3S and I was using Thunder Power 4S packs and the prop 3DHS suggests for 4S.

That explained the power difference, but not why my Vyper on 4S seemed to float and fly at least as slow as his did on 3S. He'd originally set up his Vyper for 4S but he didn't like how "heavy" it flew so he'd switched to 3S after flying it for a few days. I already knew why, but he had to go online via his iPhone and compare the weights of Gens Ace and TP packs before he would believe me.

The bottom line is Gens Ace 3S packs actually weigh a little more than TP 4S packs of comparable mAh and C ratings and Gens Ace 4S packs weigh significantly more.

I bring this up because it illustrates a point which is often forgotten in these "premium vs. budget" LiPo pack discussions. I'm not trying to trivialize the importance of cost, durability, and performance, but those factors aren't the only things to consider when judging value.

Pete
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:09 PM
3D? I only got two thumbs!
United States, MA
Joined Jul 2012
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Very true Pete - thunder power packs consistently weigh less than other brands of the same rating. One reason I went with them for my first batch of lipos. The reason I'm now running glaciers is because I had bad lipo maintenance habits and degraded the thunder powers way prematurely. I have put myself on what you might call lipo probation to see if I can keep a set of moderately priced packs in good shape for a while.

BTW, the lipo I pulled down to 10.79 yesterday shows an IR that's the same as it was before, so I'm hoping I got away with no degradation from that event.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 01:57 PM
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USA, WA, Benton City
Joined Oct 2007
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Personally, I'd like to see a standard test that every pack mfg. is required to use before their products hit the market. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe there is standard by anyone is there?

Realistically, it means nothing if there's one mfg. or 20 mfgs. of cells for resale. Each reseller has, or probably has, a set of design specs. they can/will live with. Some resellers buy cells that are the premium ones and others buy cells that aren't. Even at that, there's always going to be a few that fail, premium or less than. That's where the warranty comes in and whether or not the vendor will back a given product.

My choice for packs has been MaxAmps. Spendy, been in use(used/abused) for 4 years or more and still working great. Just my
25 worth. (inflation )

Dan
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deckert View Post
Personally, I'd like to see a standard test that every pack mfg. is required to use before their products hit the market. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe there is standard by anyone is there?

Realistically, it means nothing if there's one mfg. or 20 mfgs. of cells for resale. Each reseller has, or probably has, a set of design specs. they can/will live with. Some resellers buy cells that are the premium ones and others buy cells that aren't. Even at that, there's always going to be a few that fail, premium or less than. That's where the warranty comes in and whether or not the vendor will back a given product.

My choice for packs has been MaxAmps. Spendy, been in use(used/abused) for 4 years or more and still working great. Just my
25 worth. (inflation )

Dan
I find it amusing that you speak of having a standard test but then state you buy MaxAmps. They make some of the most absurd claims about their batteries out of anyone out there and refuse to provide any test data to back up their claims.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PGR View Post

I bring this up because it illustrates a point which is often forgotten in these "premium vs. budget" LiPo pack discussions. I'm not trying to trivialize the importance of cost, durability, and performance, but those factors aren't the only things to consider when judging value.

Pete
I couldn't agree more, unfortunately it seems so many equate value to initial purchase price.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 03:58 PM
PGR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroKen View Post
BTW, the lipo I pulled down to 10.79 yesterday shows an IR that's the same as it was before, so I'm hoping I got away with no degradation from that event.
Here's my twist on that, Ken:

When I began using LiPo packs they were rated at 8C discharge (10C burst), there was no way to balance them, and the most widely recognized LVC setting was 3 volts per cell (9 volts for a 3S pack).

And I had packs which survived those conditions for several years. In fact, I re-purposed a couple of my original TP2100-3S 8C packs and used them to power photography strobes until 2010, so they saw 6 years of use before I finally put 'em to sleep. I'll add that I did that because I thought it was prudent, not because the packs were exhibiting unacceptable signs of old age.

This whole LiPo care debate has become a black-&-white kind of thing, but the truth of the matter is there are plenty of shades of grey which don't really have any significant consequences. That said, the safest way to think IS in black-&-white terms. It's said that fear can be as effective as respect in some cases, and this is definitely one of those cases.

Pete
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Last edited by PGR; Nov 18, 2012 at 05:50 PM.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 04:48 PM
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Des Moines IA
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Where is the best place to buy hyperion or thunder power lipos?
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 04:50 PM
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So. Cal.
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Rclipos.com and allerc.com are my favorites.

Mark
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 05:46 PM
PGR
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United States, CA, Costa Mesa
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I buy almost all my Thunder Power packs from Aero-Model Inc. Truth be known, I buy most of 'em at either the AMA Expo or the RCX because Aero-Model always offers a substantial "Show Discount" at those events.

They're also quick to ship when you order online and I'm pretty sure they offer the same discount at any show they go to.

Pete
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 06:00 PM
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rclipos.com is my go to source.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:03 PM
Go small or go home
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Canada, SK, Regina
Joined Mar 2008
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Batteries improve, year after year. New formulas, new materials, new processes, new companies selling the new brand X. Each generation packs more power, charges faster and provides more amps out the wire. Not 10 years, not 5 years, but every year. Bet your last dollar that next year there will be an even better battery, that packs more power into less weight. Do you think the 'big' users of batteries like cell phone manufactures are sitting by on last year's technology? Electric storage is a fast moving field.

So ask yourself, do you really want to be stockpiled with expensive batteries that last for years? I just don't see long life in a lipo as a selling point anymore.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:05 PM
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So. Cal.
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I respectfully disagree. The best overall performing batteries that I own (Hyperion CX) were purchased in September 2009, have well over 200 cycles, and are still performing like new. Conversely, I have some cheaper packs that performed great when new but did not even make it to 100 cycles in the same application. These lesser quality packs are now resident in my refrigerator while my Hyperion's continue to deliver.

Hyperion G3 batteries were released nearly 4 years ago and are still among the best overall performing lipolys available anywhere so the notion that electrochemical battery technology is rapidly progressing with yearly advancements just doesn't ring true, at least in my analysis. How I wish this were true though...

Mark
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