HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Nov 15, 2012, 03:52 PM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2012
5 Posts
Discussion
Need help with SLOW motor setup

Hi,

I'm not particularly well-versed in RC setups, which brings me here for a little advice.

I am gutting an RC helicopter for a project. I need to lower the rotor speed significantly, among other things. The stock motor is a 440 size; can diameter of 28mm and height of 35 mm. I'd like any replacement motor to be close to that.

I need to lower the overall rotation speed to 100 RPM's or less. The gearing is around 10:1, so a motor output of 1000 RPM's or less is what I'm looking for.
What kind of brushless motor setup should I start looking into?

Thanks.
tcleck is offline Find More Posts by tcleck
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Nov 15, 2012, 05:33 PM
Registered User
Wintr's Avatar
USA, MO, Florissant
Joined Nov 2010
1,850 Posts
What kind of power will you be needing? The power requirement will determine how much current you will need at a given voltage, which may set a minimum voltage. That voltage will determine the kV of the motor. For example, if a 1 cell LiPo (3.7V) will provide the necessary power, then a 270kV motor will provide the rpm you're looking for. If you need 100W, finding a 1 cell LiPo that will provide 27 amps or more may be a problem, though. Going to 2 cell will give you a greater selection of batteries, but then you'd need a 135kV motor.
Wintr is online now Find More Posts by Wintr
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 15, 2012, 05:47 PM
Registered User
Dr Kiwi's Avatar
Chattanooga, Tennessee, United States
Joined May 2003
27,206 Posts
I'd see whether you can alter the gearing or go with a belt drive.. but as Wintr says.. knowing how much power you need is vital.

There are plenty of 2835 brushless motors but few are lower than ~1800Kv.. so on 3s you'd have close to 15,000rpm... getting that down to 100rpm is a serious engineering problem.
Dr Kiwi is offline Find More Posts by Dr Kiwi
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 15, 2012, 08:36 PM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2012
5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintr View Post
What kind of power will you be needing? The power requirement will determine how much current you will need at a given voltage, which may set a minimum voltage. That voltage will determine the kV of the motor. For example, if a 1 cell LiPo (3.7V) will provide the necessary power, then a 270kV motor will provide the rpm you're looking for. If you need 100W, finding a 1 cell LiPo that will provide 27 amps or more may be a problem, though. Going to 2 cell will give you a greater selection of batteries, but then you'd need a 135kV motor.
I don't know how much power I'll need, but providing the amperage for any given voltage should not be a problem because this thing does not need to move anywhere; the rotor only has to spin. Worse comes to worse I'll make a power supply or wire a couple of 3.7's in parallel.

I'd appreciate it if you could link me any motors with kv ratings that low; I've had trouble finding much below about 750 kv. I'm trying to get away with as little gearing as possible because lubricants and plastics typically don't fare well in a vacuum chamber.
tcleck is offline Find More Posts by tcleck
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 15, 2012, 09:31 PM
characters welcome!
Mark Wood's Avatar
United States, CA, Bear Valley Springs
Joined Feb 2000
26,500 Posts
For cryin' out loud. Tell us what you are trying to do and we might be able to help a bit better.

mw
Mark Wood is online now Find More Posts by Mark Wood
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 07:47 PM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2012
5 Posts
Fair enough.

I'm working with a group on a heliogyro spacecraft project. I'm going to skip past the explanation and say that it looks like the rotor on a helicopter, but the blades are much longer, thinner, and more flexible.

We're trying to get data for modeling in a vacuum chamber, which is where the helicopter comes in. It's got most of the hardware we need; it just spins too fast. When we finish, the whole thing will be stationary in the middle of the chamber receiving external power/control while the rotor+about .25 kg extra spins at 100 RPM or less. I'm trying to find a way to get there, preferably with minimum gearing, which is starting to look like a pipe dream.
tcleck is offline Find More Posts by tcleck
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 19, 2012, 09:47 AM
Registered User
Ron H's Avatar
Bishopville S.C.
Joined May 2003
4,072 Posts
How about a metal worm drive lubed with graphite?
Ron H is online now Find More Posts by Ron H
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 19, 2012, 11:44 AM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2012
5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron H View Post
How about a metal worm drive lubed with graphite?
That's practical. That's about a 150:1 gear ratio, which puts the motor specs to something a little more reasonable. Then all I have to do is mount it.

Thank you!
tcleck is offline Find More Posts by tcleck
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 22, 2012, 05:02 PM
Registered User
vintage1's Avatar
East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
29,705 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron H View Post
How about a metal worm drive lubed with graphite?
Lossy. I'd go with a humongous ratio belt drive. Or even double reduction

And drop the volts to the motor if its for a test rig,.
vintage1 is offline Find More Posts by vintage1
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 22, 2012, 08:10 PM
Registered User
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Feb 2010
1,817 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage1 View Post
Lossy. I'd go with a humongous ratio belt drive. Or even double reduction
Belts are no good, the allowable ratio is no better than gears. Double reduction is the only way you are going to get good efficiency If the efficiency is not so critical a worm gear would work well, just make sure there is a owb between the blades and the worm gear, or you may find that when you stop the motor the rotor inertia destroys your gears.
desertstalker is offline Find More Posts by desertstalker
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 23, 2012, 03:44 AM
Registered User
vintage1's Avatar
East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
29,705 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertstalker View Post
Belts are no good, the allowable ratio is no better than gears. Double reduction is the only way you are going to get good efficiency If the efficiency is not so critical a worm gear would work well, just make sure there is a owb between the blades and the worm gear, or you may find that when you stop the motor the rotor inertia destroys your gears.
Not quite true.

If the belt is constrained by idler gears or the motor is a long way from the output shaft any ratio is possible.. Its all about having enough belt on the smaller pulley.
vintage1 is offline Find More Posts by vintage1
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 23, 2012, 04:27 AM
Wake up, feel pulse, be happy!
C₄H₁₀'s Avatar
United States, AK, Fairbanks
Joined Aug 2009
12,542 Posts
How firmly are you locked into your motor size requirement? If you mounted a deep-ratio planetary gearbox to a low-Kv outrunner, you could probably get the shaft RPMs down pretty low to start with and then gear it even more with the heli's stock gearing. The only tricky part might be finding a pinion to fit the gearbox, as most on the market are made for directly driving a prop which results in a pretty large shaft diameter.
C₄H₁₀ is online now Find More Posts by C₄H₁₀
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 23, 2012, 09:27 PM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2012
5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by C₄H₁₀ View Post
How firmly are you locked into your motor size requirement? If you mounted a deep-ratio planetary gearbox to a low-Kv outrunner, you could probably get the shaft RPMs down pretty low to start with and then gear it even more with the heli's stock gearing. The only tricky part might be finding a pinion to fit the gearbox, as most on the market are made for directly driving a prop which results in a pretty large shaft diameter.
It looks like I'll be making my own mounting however I do it, so motor size isn't much of a constraint anymore.
tcleck is offline Find More Posts by tcleck
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Need help with getting the smallest and lightweightest possible setup for an orni Legendary_Agent Ornithopters 17 Apr 26, 2012 09:37 PM
Discussion Sorry for all the? But need help with slow motor/ESC Denominator Multirotor Talk 3 Mar 26, 2012 07:06 PM
Discussion Need help with Dynam P-51 4s setup. broncoboy36081 Electric Warbirds 0 Mar 11, 2012 11:44 AM
Question Gurus, need help with setup 28mm motor GB and high amps for beater setup gotboostedvr6 High Performance 6 Feb 15, 2011 05:35 PM
More help needed with Slow Stick setup please Drivie Parkflyers 16 Apr 06, 2003 02:39 PM