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Old Feb 08, 2013, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Socratous View Post
Well my fan showed up a few days ago, and tonight I got around to making a little stand so I could bench test it and get it running smooth.

Static bench test results are;
75A @1100W
Using;
Turnigy 4S 3300 30C pack
Hobbywing 80A esc
HET 2W-25 motor

I think that my little vampire will boogie along quite nicely
Thats is some good numbers! It is very similar to what I got with the 2w23 and the 12 blade fan on 4s. How'd the balancing go for ya?
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 01:53 PM
Loose Sox Special Spec
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Australia, SA, Modbury North
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You can use up to 6S on the 2w-25 motor, but that would be crazy high amps on the cs12. I'm already pushing the friendship with the current I'm drawing now!

I don't have a lot of experience with edf, so ran the plan past the boys at Model Flight. They told me that edf loses more in the air than what a prop does, so pulling 75A mounted on the stand will probably be more like 60ishA once mounted in the plane taking into account ducting losses and the fact the the whole setup will be moving and not stationary.

I know that the batteries aren't the perfect choice, but that's what I had in the shed already so they will do for now. Any higher c pack in 3300 would be a pita to get cg right unless moving to alloy housing to get more weight in the tail. To get the packs I've got now to balance they are already further back than I'd like
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by WhalleyB0Y View Post
Thats is some good numbers! It is very similar to what I got with the 2w23 and the 12 blade fan on 4s. How'd the balancing go for ya?
The balance of the rotor was good. Once the spinner was on though... I was beginning to wonder how much efficiency I'd lose not using the spinner! lol
I persevered with it though and finally got it running smooth. Happy with the results now, hoping to get a maiden in this weekend.
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 02:22 PM
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Do not count with any unloading in the air for EDFs. Its got to be hell of a lousy ducting to lose any substantial Amps...And the thrust will suffer badly to. The numbers you get on the ground installed in the plane is probably quite accurate to the numbers in the air.
Unloading in the air, because of the plane is moving, is zero or very close to it.
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 04:59 PM
Extreme CNC Alloy EDF
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Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socratous View Post
You can use up to 6S on the 2w-25 motor, but that would be crazy high amps on the cs12. I'm already pushing the friendship with the current I'm drawing now!

I don't have a lot of experience with edf, so ran the plan past the boys at Model Flight. They told me that edf loses more in the air than what a prop does, so pulling 75A mounted on the stand will probably be more like 60ishA once mounted in the plane taking into account ducting losses and the fact the the whole setup will be moving and not stationary.
The 2W25 is rated to 6s OR X amount of amps, the ratings dont mean you can run 6s no matter where you install it. 4s with the CS rotor is it for amp draw, any more and the motor is likely to cook especially in our summer weather.

As for unloading, it never ceases to amaze me how little MF know about EDF, they do know a lot about BMW's though LOL. EDF does not unload in the air, in fact with plenty of inlet flow amps can easily rise in the air. I have logged quite a few of my models in flight and see am draw rise, even mild 4s setups that pull 55A on the bench show 63-64 in the air for the first few minutes.
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by WhalleyB0Y View Post
Thats is some good numbers! It is very similar to what I got with the 2w23 and the 12 blade fan on 4s. How'd the balancing go for ya?
Yes but watts are meaningless without RPM, so while the numbers may be similar the longer heavier motor will turn more of those watts into rpm/thrust.
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Extreme_RC View Post
The 2W25 is rated to 6s OR X amount of amps, the ratings dont mean you can run 6s no matter where you install it. 4s with the CS rotor is it for amp draw, any more and the motor is likely to cook especially in our summer weather.

As for unloading, it never ceases to amaze me how little MF know about EDF, they do know a lot about BMW's though LOL. EDF does not unload in the air, in fact with plenty of inlet flow amps can easily rise in the air. I have logged quite a few of my models in flight and see am draw rise, even mild 4s setups that pull 55A on the bench show 63-64 in the air for the first few minutes.
Hence why I'm only running it on 4s and not the 5s like previously suggested!

Brad is the one I deal with at MF, he was singing your praises actually, and I would have given you another order and bought it all from you of you answered my last email but I was in a hurry and couldn't wait anymore :/ *shakes fist, lol

I know what the 25 is rated at, and on paper I know I'm pushing the limits. I'm using the 25 as in my experience it is a bullet proof motor. I ran one on my old funjet on 3s and was pulling 72a on wot passes and never had an issue with it... Until I knife edged a park bench, then a foot path, and a bush at over 200 clicks then had the motor/esc/battery end up 55m from the airframe! haha

I've never had a serious edf setup before so have never bothered with inflight readings, I might look into it for this one perhaps to keep an eye on it.

As for feeding it plenty of inlet air, I don't think that I'll have much of a problem with all the rubbish in the way in the vampire airframe. On my tomahawk airframes though, that is something I'll be mindful of.
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Extreme_RC View Post
Yes but watts are meaningless without RPM, so while the numbers may be similar the longer heavier motor will turn more of those watts into rpm/thrust.
I respect your opinion very much. Do you really think the Het 2w23 is unable to handle the CS12 on 4s?
My plans were to find a motor to provide optimal performance in these 12 blade fans on either 4s or 5s. My sources suggested getting a motor close to 3000kv to get the rpm's. I had a hard time getting consistant opinions.
I do not hold wot much after takeoff but now I am concerned about the durability and safety of my jet.
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Extreme_RC View Post
The 2W25 is rated to 6s OR X amount of amps, the ratings dont mean you can run 6s no matter where you install it. 4s with the CS rotor is it for amp draw, any more and the motor is likely to cook especially in our summer weather.

As for unloading, it never ceases to amaze me how little MF know about EDF, they do know a lot about BMW's though LOL. EDF does not unload in the air, in fact with plenty of inlet flow amps can easily rise in the air. I have logged quite a few of my models in flight and see am draw rise, even mild 4s setups that pull 55A on the bench show 63-64 in the air for the first few minutes.
HET 2w25 tests...

I just tested the Cs12 70mm fan inside a vampire with canopy on a 5S 3300 30c lipo. Inside the vampire I did a WOT stationary 5 sec pull and got a max of 89 amps, and around 1600watts. I think it will fry at those numbers, I am going to set my trottle end point to something lower were I get around 75amps max.
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by PAPE View Post
HET 2w25 tests...

I just tested the Cs12 70mm fan inside a vampire with canopy on a 5S 3300 30c lipo. Inside the vampire I did a WOT stationary 5 sec pull and got a max of 89 amps, and around 1600watts. I think it will fry at those numbers, I am going to set my trottle end point to something lower were I get around 75amps max.
What kinda heat is coming off the motor at those watts?

Been running MB1 on 5s with the CS fan and haven't had too much trouble from it, I know it's for burst only though.....pulling around 100amps on 5s with that motor WOT for around 5 months now


The HET motor should be cool, CHECK TEMP though....always check temps

regards
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 03:57 AM
Extreme CNC Alloy EDF
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Originally Posted by Socratous View Post
Hence why I'm only running it on 4s and not the 5s like previously suggested!
I would have given you another order and bought it all from you of you answered my last email but I was in a hurry and couldn't wait anymore :/ *shakes fist, lol.
If you dont get a reply from me then its very likely I didnt get the email, or if you used the contact page you may have entered your email incorrectly, many times I write out a reply hit send and it bounces because the address is wrong, nothing I can do about it as I have only that contact point to go with.

The 2W25 is a tough motor, I dont think you will have any issue with it in your setup, as you say it can be used anywhere, and in a prop model you will definietely get unloading, great example is my Dago race glider, runs a 2W23 & 40A ESC on 3s with a 5.25x6.25 prop, on the bench its pulling over 50A, in the air it unloads heaps, nothing overheats and I get flight time that calculates to around 35A WOT. I cannot log it as there is literally zero room to fit the Hyperion RDU logger inside.
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 04:00 AM
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The MB1 was not 100% reliable on 5s, I know a lot of guys who had them cook on 5s. I ran them on 4s in my Sapac Hawks and I know there are many who did run them on 5s, but the failure numbers reported were noticeable over the years they were in service.
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by WhalleyB0Y View Post
I respect your opinion very much. Do you really think the Het 2w23 is unable to handle the CS12 on 4s?
My plans were to find a motor to provide optimal performance in these 12 blade fans on either 4s or 5s. My sources suggested getting a motor close to 3000kv to get the rpm's. I had a hard time getting consistant opinions.
I do not hold wot much after takeoff but now I am concerned about the durability and safety of my jet.
I think it will handle the load as long as you are careful in hot weather, but its not optimal. The Kv is not as important as the motor size, mass, efficiency, and design, and it makes sense the 2W25 being a longer higher mass motor with only a little less Kv will be more efficient, this thought is born out in tests.

Its like the old 90mm comparison of ARC3655-1.5 vs ARC3675-1, on 6s both motors produce the same thrust within a % or two, but the longer can does it at almost 20 amps less, it weighs 100g more, so there is a tradeoff between amp draw and weight, but in a large 90mm foamy the amp draw wins hands down over the weight gain.
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Extreme_RC View Post
The MB1 was not 100% reliable on 5s, I know a lot of guys who had them cook on 5s...
Yeap, I only fly it burst on 5s with the CS rotor and WOT all day long on 5s with a SAPAC, KV on a MB1 is around 3200...packs in 3300mah 45c's

I would think the 2w25 would be alright on 5s also with the cs rotor, less watts on 5s than MB1.
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 08:14 PM
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On that note Mark, have you looked into or considered 8S with a CS70/12?
There's been talk in one of the other threads about using one of the leopard 2860 motors with a 1690, 1840 or 2040KV versions of the motor. All are rated for 29V and above with a max amp of 38, 40 and 47 respectfully. The 2040kv I've only considered for a Wemo.

Do you have any setups/motors that would fit this kind of demand? Still just looking to turn the fan at the 53K range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme_RC View Post
I think it will handle the load as long as you are careful in hot weather, but its not optimal. The Kv is not as important as the motor size, mass, efficiency, and design, and it makes sense the 2W25 being a longer higher mass motor with only a little less Kv will be more efficient, this thought is born out in tests.

Its like the old 90mm comparison of ARC3655-1.5 vs ARC3675-1, on 6s both motors produce the same thrust within a % or two, but the longer can does it at almost 20 amps less, it weighs 100g more, so there is a tradeoff between amp draw and weight, but in a large 90mm foamy the amp draw wins hands down over the weight gain.
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