SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:14 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Sebastopol
Joined Dec 2010
7,301 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolfRC View Post
...

So, to be clear, I do think spare parts availability is a very important thing to consider when buying an ARF...especially a 3D ARF that is likely to be involved in more incidents due to the nature of risks in 3D flight.
Yes, I agree... I was being facetious.
erkq is offline Find More Posts by erkq
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Nov 18, 2012, 03:06 PM
Scott Stoops
sukhoi26mx's Avatar
United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Mar 2002
8,411 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCDme3D View Post
Back in 2003 when I started in this hobby, I thought my U can Do 3d was the bomb... Now I laugh that I ever thought that! People like you have brought this hobby such a long way... Cheers!
But in 2003 it was the bomb. Then Stevens Aero and precision laser cutting happened, and the industry leveraged that to figure out how to build a plane with little/no wing rock, then we figured out to minimize coupling, etc, etc, etc... That stuff didn't just magically happen, though. It took literally hundreds and hundreds of prototypes throughout the "boutique" part of the industry (at the time, Seba, EF, 3DHS, SA, PA, Mountain models) with different wing locations, wing thickness, varying locations of max thickness, weight reductions to keep the cube loading as low as possible, etc. That said, none of this could have happened without brushless and Lipo technology continuing to innovate...

Personally, I couldn't have imagined where all of this has gone. I clearly remember a time before RCG even had a 3D forum, because there simply weren't ANY electric 3D airplanes. It took a large effort by a modeler called "Dreamer" (I think) to get the 3D forum started.

I guess my point in all of this is that we didn't copy one another. We built on what we learned, leveraged an idea, but we didn't copy anything. Copies add nothing to either development or innovation. I refuse to reward that. FWIW.

Scott
sukhoi26mx is offline Find More Posts by sukhoi26mx
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 04:44 PM
Santi
DaaBears's Avatar
United States, TN, Nashville
Joined Nov 2003
1,597 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukhoi26mx View Post
But in 2003 it was the bomb. Then Stevens Aero and precision laser cutting happened, and the industry leveraged that to figure out how to build a plane with little/no wing rock, then we figured out to minimize coupling, etc, etc, etc... That stuff didn't just magically happen, though. It took literally hundreds and hundreds of prototypes throughout the "boutique" part of the industry (at the time, Seba, EF, 3DHS, SA, PA, Mountain models) with different wing locations, wing thickness, varying locations of max thickness, weight reductions to keep the cube loading as low as possible, etc. That said, none of this could have happened without brushless and Lipo technology continuing to innovate...

Personally, I couldn't have imagined where all of this has gone. I clearly remember a time before RCG even had a 3D forum, because there simply weren't ANY electric 3D airplanes. It took a large effort by a modeler called "Dreamer" (I think) to get the 3D forum started.

I guess my point in all of this is that we didn't copy one another. We built on what we learned, leveraged an idea, but we didn't copy anything. Copies add nothing to either development or innovation. I refuse to reward that. FWIW.

Scott

It was awesome in 2003! For a beginner I was hovering and knife edging all day with that floaty thing! I worked at the hobby shop and remember motocalc'ing different numbers of nicmh packs and brushed motors with gearboxes. Shooting for over 1:1 thrust, forget about. 2:1! When lipos and brushless
Motors came out, it was a new ball game. But initially lipos were a max of 10c so it was still tough together a good thrust to weight!
DaaBears is offline Find More Posts by DaaBears
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 05:06 PM
↓↘→ + (punch)
theKM's Avatar
central PA.
Joined Sep 2004
20,187 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingconsulting View Post
How much does it cost for 3DHS to design these models? Research and development? Flying to China to meet with manufactures? Marketing?

They just took their laser cut original files and got it built somewhere else. Who knows maybe from the same company.

How about you just give us all 20% of your paycheck? Probably wouldn't be fair would it? China has copied things like this forever.

Robert King
dude, for the development and creative efforts of an airframe, customers of these products expect people to get exactly $0 for their efforts...


Quote:
Originally Posted by FireyFate
Well, as the old saying goes: "Put a thousand monkeys working at a thousand typewriters, and they will eventually give up and clone a 3DHS product."
...a new favorite post
theKM is offline Find More Posts by theKM
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 05:10 PM
Scott Stoops
sukhoi26mx's Avatar
United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Mar 2002
8,411 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCDme3D View Post
But initially lipos were a max of 10c so it was still tough together a good thrust to weight!
Still remember my first set of Kokam 3200's (3C max!) that were capable of a full 10 amps!! Woohoo! Totally different world.. we could actually fly a brushed Zagi for 15-20 minutes!

Scott
sukhoi26mx is offline Find More Posts by sukhoi26mx
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:09 PM
3D Wannabe
NJSwede's Avatar
United States, NJ, Mendham Township
Joined Jul 2011
849 Posts
To be perfectly honest, a year ago I wouldn't have cared much that HK copied the airframe, put their own logo exactly where the 3DHS logo is and even calls it 3DHK in an obvious attempt to provoke the 3DHS team. And I hold no grudge against anyone buying this plane hoping to get an acceptable product while saving a few bucks.

But I will say this:

While being involved with a certain 3D-oriented site, I've gotten to know the 3DHS family a little better and started to understand what they're doing for the hobby. It's simply a great group of people who don't hesitate to answer questions and help their fellow pilots, even those who don't fly 3DHS planes. I've also started to understand the enormous amount of development, research, testing, experimenting, scrapping of ideas, launching of new ideas that goes on behind the scenes. Like someone said earlier, if you calculated the hourly wages on all that work, it would come out to a very low number. Sure, these are people who do what they love, but it's still a tremendous gift to our community as RC pilots.

So what I'm trying to say here is that if you want to buy this plane, I'm not going to try to stop you. But stop and think for a second how it impacts the very people who make this hobby what it is!

I personally own very few 3DHS planes (two, to be exact), but I have a feeling that fleet will grow, based on what I've learned about the people behind the products and how they develop them.

And now I will step down from my soap box and get some work done. Thank you for your time!
NJSwede is online now Find More Posts by NJSwede
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:37 PM
zürich
Joined Jun 2008
1,074 Posts
would it be all right then karma wise if you send a thx-a-lot-email to 3dhs after the purchase at hk ?
long leng is offline Find More Posts by long leng
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:50 PM
3D Wannabe
NJSwede's Avatar
United States, NJ, Mendham Township
Joined Jul 2011
849 Posts
I think that's between you and your karma-providing diety.
NJSwede is online now Find More Posts by NJSwede
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:56 PM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
Aberdeen
Joined Mar 2006
11,620 Posts
I wonder if 3DHS have employed a hacker to get their own back?

Message displayed on HK web site home page as of 5 minutes ago:
JetPlaneFlyer is offline Find More Posts by JetPlaneFlyer
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:44 PM
Registered User
Andrew Jesky's Avatar
Monroe, Michigan
Joined Oct 2002
1,657 Posts
Hey all,

I dont usually get into these types of discussions but I would like to know if and when someone receives this model if they could send some pics of it and if by chance they have a 3DHS Slick laying around to compare it to that would be great. If Hobbyking keeps on deciding to STEAL designs that are out there I have a feeling that the hobby will end up losing designs. Why should I put my hard work into designing a model when I know for a fact that it will just be ripped off and sold by some other company. I really hope that this plane is just close to the 3DHS Slick but I have a feeling that is almost identical in every way.

Andrew
Andrew Jesky is offline Find More Posts by Andrew Jesky
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:48 PM
zürich
Joined Jun 2008
1,074 Posts
why not copyrighting the design?
long leng is offline Find More Posts by long leng
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:54 PM
Registered User
FireyFate's Avatar
USA, AZ, Surprise
Joined Apr 2010
2,658 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by long leng View Post
why not copyrighting the design?
Do you live under a rock or what? Trying to enforce copyright on a low volume product against a Chinese company would be an utter waste of resources. It would go nowhere.

If the RIAA, Holywood, and Microsoft can't figure out a way to enforce their copyrights in China you seriously think a specialty RC ARF company is going to be successful at it?
FireyFate is offline Find More Posts by FireyFate
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:57 PM
VOLTS > AMPS
stgdz's Avatar
United States, MN, Buffalo
Joined Jul 2011
3,866 Posts
Same reason as a chineese patent. Actually here is something interesting. The elon musk dragon rocket doesn't have any patents on it because he knows the Chinese will just copy the patents without a care in the world.
stgdz is offline Find More Posts by stgdz
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:23 PM
Team Hillbilly (UK)
Space Bat's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Cambs
Joined Oct 2011
1,396 Posts
I find it almost laughable the vitreol spouted over something that in the grand scheme of things isn't really that important...its comical the way some people behave when a so called 3DHS copy cat plane hits the HK shelves....

Please get over it...

Our lives are a wash with counterfeit...copied things.. and it's not all China's fault...

from Levi's to Cigarettes to Cars to RC planes...things will be copied and if I find I need my Brakes done...I am pretty sure my local garage gets a copied brake pad which is over half the price of an Alfa Romeo original...

'Smart' people know this

3DHS have their own site and their own distribution network now 'bongo'

I have checked and checked and HK are not on their site listed - which means....

If I want a genuine 3DHS slick I will need to go to them and place an order....or anyone else that offers 3DHS planes....if I want something that is possibly not of the same quality or offers the same quality of flying...and prepared to pay less than it should be every ones prerogative - it may even fly better who knows.. but seldom in this world does anything that has been copied and sells for less is as good as the original....


These aren't the droids you are looking for...

Move along....Move along...
Space Bat is offline Find More Posts by Space Bat
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:31 PM
Santi
DaaBears's Avatar
United States, TN, Nashville
Joined Nov 2003
1,597 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Bat View Post
I find it almost laughable the vitreol spouted over something that in the grand scheme of things isn't really that important...its comical the way some people behave when a so called 3DHS copy cat plane hits the HK shelves....

Please get over it...

Our lives are a wash with counterfeit...copied things.. and it's not all China's fault...

from Levi's to Cigarettes to Cars to RC planes...things will be copied and if I find I need my Brakes done...I am pretty sure my local garage gets a copied brake pad which is over half the price of an Alfa Romeo original...

'Smart' people know this

3DHS have their own site and their own distribution network now 'bongo'

I have checked and checked and HK are not on their site listed - which means....

If I want a genuine 3DHS slick I will need to go to them and place an order....or anyone else that offers 3DHS planes....if I want something that is possibly not of the same quality or offers the same quality of flying...and prepared to pay less than it should be every ones prerogative - it may even fly better who knows.. but seldom in this world does anything that has been copied and sells for less is as good as the original....


These aren't the droids you are looking for...

Move along....Move along...
I know you're in another country, but "isn't that important"??? It doesn't open your eyes that two of the top designers have voiced their concerns over this?
Have you seen the progress the 3d designers have made in the past 10 years- if that isn't that important, then go back to brushed motors and nicads- you sound like you'd be satisfied.
DaaBears is offline Find More Posts by DaaBears
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Alert Aj slick 51" blue sveininge 3D Flying 8 Mar 10, 2012 01:16 PM
For Sale 3DHS AJ SLICK 51" LPU in AZ East Valley helijet Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 8 Feb 29, 2012 10:41 PM
Sold NIB 51" Red AJ Slick Luv3d Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 3 Feb 29, 2012 08:25 AM
Discussion Will flying the Slick 42" be any more difficult than the Slick 51"? avt 3D Flying 7 Aug 02, 2010 01:28 AM
Alert For Sale: 3DHS 70 slick, 55 edge, 51 slick, etc (Prices Lowered $30.00 ) Zero3803 Atlanta Area RC 14 Mar 30, 2010 08:38 PM