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Old Nov 17, 2012, 10:22 AM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
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Aberdeen
Joined Mar 2006
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Originally Posted by Jeff Zemke View Post
Just pointing out what I see.
Yeah there are a number if tiny differences when you drill right down to the minute detail. It's still a copy, just not a perfect copy. Makes me think that the design has been copied by dismantling a 3DHS plane and reverse engineering it rather than getting hold of the actual drawings and later cutting template files. It also rules out the (remote) possibility that the HK version actually came from the same factory.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 11:17 AM
Scott Stoops
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United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Mar 2002
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Originally Posted by KCV6 View Post
When I say power to the people it's not in spite, it simply means each and every person is going to make their own decision and that doesn't mean their credability should be questioned based on their choice. We are all just people on the end of a computer buying whats offered to us based on what takes our fancy.

Mark
On that I tend to disagree. If you know it is a copy, then you also know that someone else put a lot of their heart, soul, energy and knowledge into that product. The originating company also has to commit significant development and promotional costs towards that product. I can assure you that the AJ Slick wouldn't even exist if it weren't for Andrew's knowledge and dedication to the design, 3DHS's capital and dedication to producing quality models and the original factory's design and workmanship. They took a chance that is now being leveraged by another company. I know this happens all the time, but to steal this kind of product is pretty offensive in my opinion, and shouldn't be encouraged. I absolutely think credibility is in play, as it should be.

Scott
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 12:27 PM
1000MIGLIA City - Italy
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Joined Mar 2012
264 Posts
ALL the RC factory copied ORIGINAL SLICK real plane.
I do not think they pay royalties to the craft factory.

I think that the only design project and 'name' proprietary,
is real plane builder .
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 12:46 PM
VOLTS > AMPS
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United States, MN, Buffalo
Joined Jul 2011
3,866 Posts
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Originally Posted by rosnik View Post
I do not think they pay royalties to the craft factory.
.
please stop posting, if you don't know don't post

http://www.slickaircraft.com/slickRC.html
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 02:47 PM
customstandoffs
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USA, AL, Madison
Joined Dec 2007
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Just think what happens if say a company with significant resources were able to copy their competitions designs and sell them much cheaper. The consumers are happy because now they save money.

Now lets say the companies that design and test and sell the "original" products lose business because of it. lets say for arguments sake that it's significant enough to push them out of business or they just get fed up and quit. Where does that leave the consumer?

I used to work for a robotics integration company and their way of thinking was that they didnt care if they made any money on a job or not as long as their competition didn't make money on it. either by winning the contract or by driving the price so low the other guys couldn't make anything on it.

I'd rather give my money to the guys that are advancing our hobby by turning out new and exciting designs.

This is all hypothetical of course
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 03:29 PM
Santi
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United States, MO, Clayton
Joined Nov 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukhoi26mx View Post
On that I tend to disagree. If you know it is a copy, then you also know that someone else put a lot of their heart, soul, energy and knowledge into that product. The originating company also has to commit significant development and promotional costs towards that product. I can assure you that the AJ Slick wouldn't even exist if it weren't for Andrew's knowledge and dedication to the design, 3DHS's capital and dedication to producing quality models and the original factory's design and workmanship. They took a chance that is now being leveraged by another company. I know this happens all the time, but to steal this kind of product is pretty offensive in my opinion, and shouldn't be encouraged. I absolutely think credibility is in play, as it should be.

Scott
I'm glad to see this post, coming from someone who works very diligently to produce another group of incredible airframes! I'm sure if they started going after your designs next, it would make your blood boil! I didn't put any work into these designs and i'm fired up!

I saw first hand, at the huckfest this year, just a fraction of the work that's being put into a new plane by 3dhs. Watching Joe test fly and adjust, then listening to them explain some of the changes they've made and why; it was fascinating, and I've got nothing but mad respect for all you guys that work so hard at producing this amazing new generation of 3d planes... Back in 2003 when I started in this hobby, I thought my U can Do 3d was the bomb... Now I laugh that I ever thought that! People like you have brought this hobby such a long way... Cheers!
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 03:58 PM
Wherever you go there you are
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Joined Nov 2011
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For the record, hobbyking has outstanding customer service. The very best customer service is never needing it.

I've only had to contact Hobby King a few times, and both times, I got through the first time, I received an intelligent and helpful response, and both times they resolved my issue to my satisfaction.

Every other hobby king order has been trouble free--and a trouble free order is the best customer service possible.

build quality
The other Slick from Hobby King--it was one of the best ARFs I've ever received as far as covering and wood goes, exceeded only by the Extreme Flight 64" MXS. (Other EF planes have been really good, and if there ever was a SNAFU that got through, EF was very quick to make things right).

The hardware included with the first HobbyKing slick was lackluster, but the wood, covering, and fiberglass workmanship were outstanding.

I've mentioned this before, but outside of the hobby, I shop at Macy's and at Walmart. And Hobby King is no Walmart when it comes to customer service, though they have many value offerings.

I won't bash, but I cannot say I've received the same excellent customer service from other online hobbyshops--except for Extreme Flight, which has the very best customer service in the hobby world in my experience so far, and in fact--the best customer service in any business I've ever dealt with. They are straight shooters, they are trustworthy, and they trust their customers. (I just hope other customers don't take advantage of that last one).

Hobby Partz is good usually, but not quite as good as Hobby King (they had a real jerk working on their online support for awhile, but he has either received some additional training, or they have since improved.) Horizon Hobby is good when it comes to Spektrum in my experience. 3DHS is good if you figure out how to get ahold of them, or if you participate on the forums and are in the in crowd--but if you don't know how 3DHS works, and are a new customer, their customer service can be very frustrating, e.g., if you call their phone during business hours and get hung up on because they're too busy to deal with phone calls.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 04:06 PM
Santi
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United States, MO, Clayton
Joined Nov 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolfRC View Post
For the record, hobbyking has outstanding customer service. The very best customer service is never needing it.

I've only had to contact Hobby King a few times, and both times, I got through the first time, I received an intelligent and helpful response, and both times they resolved my issue to my satisfaction.

Every other hobby king order has been trouble free--and a trouble free order is the best customer service possible.

build quality
The other Slick from Hobby King--it was one of the best ARFs I've ever received as far as covering and wood goes, exceeded only by the Extreme Flight 64" MXS. (Other EF planes have been really good, and if there ever was a SNAFU that got through, EF was very quick to make things right).

The hardware included with the first HobbyKing slick was lackluster, but the wood, covering, and fiberglass workmanship were outstanding.

I've mentioned this before, but outside of the hobby, I shop at Macy's and at Walmart. And Hobby King is no Walmart when it comes to customer service, though they have many value offerings.

I won't bash, but I cannot say I've received the same excellent customer service from other online hobbyshops--except for Extreme Flight, which has the very best customer service in the hobby world in my experience so far, and in fact--the best customer service in any business I've ever dealt with. They are straight shooters, they are trustworthy, and they trust their customers. (I just hope other customers don't take advantage of that last one).

Hobby Partz is good usually, but not quite as good as Hobby King (they had a real jerk working on their online support for awhile, but he has either received some additional training, or they have since improved.) Horizon Hobby is good when it comes to Spektrum in my experience. 3DHS is good if you figure out how to get ahold of them, or if you participate on the forums and are in the in crowd--but if you don't know how 3DHS works, and are a new customer, their customer service can be very frustrating, e.g., if you call their phone during business hours and get hung up on because they're too busy to deal with phone calls.
I think this issue goes way deeper than customer service... Although I will agree that as far as phone customer service, extreme flight was fantastic. I purchased the a prop adapter from EF for my edge and they called me a few hours later to tell me they thought i ordered the wrong one since they saw what edge and motor i had. They were right! I'm glad they called! I've never had an issue with 3dhs, but I participate frequently on the forums, so I understand how the system works now. i can see a how a new customer could have some frustrations. I'm sure these issues have come up and are being looked at seriously, because just from meeting the 3dhs guys, you can tell right away that they are very into this hobby, and are very customer oriented. The entire weekend in Knoxville, Noll, Bivens, Joe, Wamsy, and more were constantly answering questions, helping people fix planes, giving tips, and putting on a great show for the crowd! Noll knew I was after a 71" Slick and had been eyeing one all day, he saw I had a 42" Slick for sale to help fund the 71. He asked if i wanted to trade straight up a 42 that i was asking $250 on for a slick that's value is $450! I don't even know what to call that but I was so grateful for that! I haven't yet met the extreme flight crew, but I would guess they are probably the same in person! It's a great group of guys that run those two operations, that's why you see so many loyal fans take offense when things like this go down at the hands of a powerhouse over in China.
Both gestures by 3dhs and EF, on top of their superior products, will keep me a loyal EF and 3dhs customer for life!
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 04:09 PM
Wherever you go there you are
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While not analogous to this situation, it is *very* common for inovative companies that establish the fact that a worthwhile market exists to not make the lion's share of the money from that market. Bigger companies with deeper pockets very often come in and, at best buy the smaller company, but at worst and quite common, just use their deep pockets, distribution channels, and R&D (this is perhaps where it is not analogous) to make their own version of a product and dominate that market.

And most of us are completly unaware that this happens, and buy from the opportunists.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 04:13 PM
Wherever you go there you are
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Originally Posted by UCDme3D View Post
I think this issue goes way deeper than customer service...

Yes, I agree with you there...I was going off on a tangent mentioned by somebody else...at least I thought I was.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 04:18 PM
Santi
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United States, MO, Clayton
Joined Nov 2003
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Originally Posted by LoneWolfRC View Post
Yes, I agree with you there...I was going off on a tangent mentioned by somebody else...at least I thought I was.
no worries, it was a great opporotunity to share 2 great displays of service I experienced. I agree many companies do things like this, and most of the time we aren't aware of it. In this situation we are aware, and it's a repeat offense, and the fact that we know the people who run and work at the company that's being ripped off, is why we bring our loyalty into play! Best buy gets undercut by amazon, but best buy isn't creating the product it sells, it's just a retail chain... 3dhs has 1 store... and a very small group of workers putting out innovative products for our hobby. i chose to reward the innovators of this hobby that i love and respect... That's why I chose my business a bit differently than i may have in the past...

If I want to save a few bucks i keep my eyes peeled on the classifieds, i don't settle for some of the cheaper options out there...
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 04:34 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Sebastopol
Joined Dec 2010
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Originally Posted by LoneWolfRC View Post
For the record, hobbyking has outstanding customer service. The very best customer service is never needing it.
If you are lucky enough to not need parts, then yes, I'd say you are right. Just don't crash!
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 05:36 PM
Wherever you go there you are
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United States, MN, Minneapolis
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Originally Posted by UCDme3D View Post
Best buy gets undercut by amazon, but best buy isn't creating the product it sells, it's just a retail chain..
Minor point, but best buy "creates" its own product, undercuts other brands sold at best buy and elsewhere, and has brankrupted numerous electronics stores. I know a higher up in Best Buy who lives in China right now, so I have some inside information, but also its a matter of public record. I love Amazon, and usually avoid shopping at Best Buy, but that is due to idiotic sales floor staff and bad customer service at Best Buy.

Target--I bought a Melisa and Doug Band in a Box for my daughter once, there. A few years later I went to buy one for my neice, except Target wasn't selling it in their stores anymore--instead, they were selling their own store brand band in a box for the same price, but inferior quality. (Target was selling the original Melisa and Doug online at the time...but I am sure Melisa and Doug weren't happy, after coming up with the marketing gimic, and establishing the market).

Personally, I look forward to the day when consumers can order direct from the manufacturer in China--but I look forward more to the day when the U.S. gets a sane trade policy that protects (and re-establishes) American industry, and not one that tries to lift formerly third world countries to first world status at the expense of U.S. workers.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 05:51 PM
Wherever you go there you are
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
If you are lucky enough to not need parts, then yes, I'd say you are right. Just don't crash!
Good advice...I'll try to crash less.

Meanwhile, that's why I like Extreme Flight, and others like 3DHS, Pilot, etc.

So far, knock on wood, EF has had the spare parts I need when I needed them at very fair prices. I remember when I lost a battery hatch on my e-flite Pitts Model 12 I was disappointed to learn they didn't sell them, only the whole fuse. My next plane was a 3DHS plane, and my next after that was an Extreme Flight.

So, to be clear, I do think spare parts availability is a very important thing to consider when buying an ARF...especially a 3D ARF that is likely to be involved in more incidents due to the nature of risks in 3D flight.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 07:45 AM
I like the violent stuff!
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Joined Oct 2004
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Three cheers for Scott Stoops!!! It IS just plane wrong to buy and support a company that makes a copy! As already mentioned, what happens when the real innovators give up or go away? We're stuck with KNOCKOFFS that DO NOT fly as well as the real deal!!! AND IMHO if you think they fly as well, you need to step up your game! Even at 60 with arthritis I can tell the difference. The ONLY thing that flys like a REAL Slick IS A REAL SLICK !!!!!!
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