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Old Nov 14, 2012, 12:40 PM
Hey was that a Thermal ????
Joined Nov 2009
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Here we go Again

I am at a cross roads as time for a new mold is quickly approaching. ONCE AGAIN I am trying to decided if I should do a 1pc fuse or stay with the current 2pc that is on the FireFly. Weight is NOT an issue and stiffness does not seem to be an issue.

Shipping is cheaper with a 2pc and repairs can be easier with my design where the pod slides into the boom.

The only real advantages to a 1pc are ease of plane assembly and the cool look of 1pc.

I have considered going to a 2pc where the pod has a wing saddle. Over the upcoming Holiday season I plan to build the new mold so suggestions and input would be appreciated. There really does not seem to be a cut and dry answer on this one.

Paul
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 12:56 PM
Father of Fr3aK, DLG Pilot
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USA, OH, Worthington
Joined May 2002
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One piece is so quick to manufacture. It's a pain, but it's quick.

Two piece is still very viable. Do what you feel you can produce most effectively.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 01:02 PM
Launch high. Fly low.
United States, CA, Lake Elsinore
Joined Aug 2003
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What ever you decide on, having a wing saddle is a very nice feature. Stiffer wing/fuze connection is always great. Most 1pc fuzes have saddles. If you go 2pc, consider the Vandal's design. Still one of the best and best looking fuzes out there imho. It could use some size reduction-- narrower design maybe since electronics don't need much of it's available space.
If you go 1pc, check out the Neos. Nice, wide and stiff. Probably the stiffest boom I've seen. The only option I'd like to have on that fuze is to have the canopy on the side-- for those who use taller servos, like the MKS6100s, to get easier access to the servo horn screw.

Soar!
Jun
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 01:24 PM
Aurora Builder
United States, MD, Lusby
Joined Nov 2003
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Paul,

I second Tom's comments. I will say 1 piece is super quick to build with. Excluding fabric cutting, the layup takes less than 1 hour. I'm dead serious with that number. Its also great for the end user. Downside is you might need to sort out your fabric cutting (templates) and layup schedule will be different (up to you to figure out but lots of data).

The other question is what will your full package deal be? If its one piece fuselage+1 piece wings, then its a no brainier. Frankly shipping 1 piece fuselages isn't that big of a deal, compared with wings, but if you keep everything 2 piece the cost to ship a kit will be ~half. To get one of my one-piece everything kits coast to coast is $75 each way and I require the container to be sent back to me, so $150 shipping (ouch!!)
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 01:49 PM
Hey was that a Thermal ????
Joined Nov 2009
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Thanks Guys, These are just the kinds of comments I was looking for. Tom, as a brother in building I always value your opinion. Jun, I have to agree about a solid connection between the wing and fuse. Sam, I had no idea shipping would jump that much.

My only concern with a pod that has a wing saddle included is putting the weight of the boom to pod connection rearward of the CG. In reality that joint is probably not all that heavy, I will need to weigh one.

Jun, I have been thinking about that side mounted hatch because I use the very servos you mentioned. On the FireFly all the servos are intended to go in the pod so I would need double hatches. Currently I grind down the spline and stand them up,

Paul
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 01:57 PM
Father of Fr3aK, DLG Pilot
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USA, OH, Worthington
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The side hatch is tricky. A big benefit of having seams on the sides is that you are adding doubled layers of materials in the perfect place for reinforcement at the seams. Now if you want a canopy on the side, either you're putting it across the seam (tricky squared) or you're reworking your mold to seam it top to bottom, which doubles the materials in places that aren't optimal for buckling strength, and presents it's own challenges in the wing saddle area.

Translation: the side canopy is cool, but costs you a pinch of weight and / or a lot of tooling work. I'm still considering it for my new ship.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcats View Post
The only option I'd like to have on that fuze is to have the canopy on the side-- for those who use taller servos, like the MKS6100s, to get easier access to the servo horn screw.

Soar!
Jun
On my Polaris, I mounted the servo on it's side and drilled a very small hole in the side of the fuse directly across from the top of the servo. I use that hole to install/remove the servo horn screw (small diameter screwdriver from the ouside) and then place a small piece of tape over it when not in use.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 02:03 PM
Hey was that a Thermal ????
Joined Nov 2009
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Tom, we are on the same page. I really like having the seems on the sides to stiffen up stuff. (I shot you a PM yesterday)

I just weighed a really beefy tenon to boom joint and it is 3.4 grams. I simply cut the overlap section from the plane that got T-Boned Sunday. That boom is really over built to accept the wing mount hardware so that is obviously a non issue.

Paul
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 02:17 PM
Aurora Builder
United States, MD, Lusby
Joined Nov 2003
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Paul, just to be clear its shipping on the wings that is the bigger issue. I think you can ship one piece fuselages for ~$15 total, including packaging materials (PVC is still relatively cheap).

I will say I prefer canopies on the top vs. the bottom, easier access to ballast and easier servo installation. Understand if you go bottom from a structural design. 3-4 in the pod+one piece would be nice.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 02:43 PM
usaf3kteam
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Shipping is not an issue if plane is a great performer. Shipping cost is a very small part of a plane till you ship outside the US. a $30.00 difference if that including the box. You could offer them either way.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 03:15 PM
Launch high. Fly low.
United States, CA, Lake Elsinore
Joined Aug 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfinch View Post
On my Polaris, I mounted the servo on it's side and drilled a very small hole in the side of the fuse directly across from the top of the servo. I use that hole to install/remove the servo horn screw (small diameter screwdriver from the ouside) and then place a small piece of tape over it when not in use.
Jon,

I'm thinking the same thing on the Neos fuze. I usually cover that area with tape as a hinge/hatch.

Glad to know that you or maybe others have done it. Cool!

Jun
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 03:21 PM
Hey was that a Thermal ????
Joined Nov 2009
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George, you are right now that I think back. U-Line has a nice box for about $6 and shipping through UPS was about $30 the last time I shipped a 1pc wing. Thanks George, just when I was leaning one way you had to go a push me the other way.

Paul
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 03:32 PM
Father of Fr3aK, DLG Pilot
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East of the Mississippi it's about $40 and West it's $65-80 depending upon the location.

I have shipped alot of 65" boxes in the past couple of years.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 03:36 PM
G_T
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Joined Apr 2009
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I'd recommend shipping the fuse and the wings separately if need be. 1-pc doesn't enter into the picture from shipping cost perspective IMHO. I've had tailbooms broken in shipping with box setups I though would be pretty bulletproof. That's why I've gone to PVC pipe. It is cheap, easy to get, and I think it would take getting run over! I wrap a ring of bubble wrap in the canopy area, and a ring about 3/4 back. Then a wad of bubble wrap at each end, and tape over with strapping tape. The fuselage floats a little in there because of the two support locations. Even if the PVC pipe gets jammed and bent a fair bit, it would take a lot of bend before the fuselage is subject to any loads at all. With that method, I've never had damage, so I don't insure the shipping which drops the cost. Besides, it is too much hassle to try to actually collect on insurance if there is any damage anyway. I'm sure that hassle is quite intentional...

Having wings be joined by the builder would seriously drop the shipping issues for a DLG kit. I still have no issues with that, even for a moldie. But it appears I'm very much in the minority on this one. Two piece wings would also do a lot to reduce the space required for making wings!

Sometime I'm going to have to check out what it would cost for a PVC pipe big enough to stick a wing in for shipping. Or sonatube.

Good luck with your project.

Gerald
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 03:48 PM
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United States, CA, Tehachapi
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Originally Posted by G_T View Post
Sometime I'm going to have to check out what it would cost for a PVC pipe big enough to stick a wing in for shipping. Or sonatube.

Gerald
I was thinking about this just yesterday and was about to ask if any of you guys had tried it yet.

Paul, I personally would prefer to take ten minutes and join a pod and boom myself than pay an extra $30 in shipping, but keep in mind that I'm a builder. Most DLG pilots don't build and I think that most like having fewer chances to screw up a kit.
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