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Old Nov 18, 2012, 01:39 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
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I am THOROUGHLY enjoying the adventures of Dan - can't help but have a smile on my face as I'm reading ! Can't WAIT for the next chapter !

Al
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by balsa or carbon View Post
I am THOROUGHLY enjoying the adventures of Dan - can't help but have a smile on my face as I'm reading ! Can't WAIT for the next chapter !

Al
Next two chapters... build photos, and flight results !

Here are some build photos. As you can see, I tarted it up a bit. The wiring was actually nicer on engineering rev 1, before it was realized that the motor mount was backwards.

The tape parallel to the trailing edge is covering the wing stiffener... a pair of bamboo skewers in a bend aluminum tube. The red and yellow safety pattern was put there after my first encounter with the spinning prop.

I had trouble getting the CG all the way up to 14" behind the nose, but if I moved the battery all the way forward I could do it.

Stay tuned for the flight results.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 04:01 PM
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Lawn Dart, first three 'flights'

Okay, if there is a club trophy for MOST SUCKY, I'm in the running !

Flight one... nicely balanced, run up the motor... wow, there is a large component of rotation pitching the nose down... Oh well, I thought I followed the instructions... maybe the dynamic balance is going to be different than the static forces... Yeah, thats gotta be it... Lets GO.

Heave ! 10 feet later, it's sticking in the ground. Yes, it's a Lawn Dart. Okay, maybe it's the balance...

Flight two ... I've cheated a bit... I've moved the CG back a little... maybe 1/2 inch. Check out the control surfaces, everything looks good... "Everything" ??? What, how many are there? Sheesh, it's not like I've got spoilerators and flapavons programmed into a computer. It's two elevators and 1 rudder. They wiggle, when they is supposed to.

Rev up the motor, trying not to get caught by the prop again... still that huge pitching component... oh well, give it a heave, yank the stick back, and ... Lawn Dart.

Okay, back to the folding table...

I decide that maybe the CG should be behind the propeller... some sort of vector analysis and hand waving and gosh I don't know but it sounds good. Remember the old sign "If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be research." So, I move the battery WAY back, and now it balances about 1/2 inch behind the propeller. YAH BABY, now I am going to show who is smaht !!!!

Back to the flight line, also known as "that wide part in the hay field that's sorta farthest away from the hay bales". Check the surfaces, check my fingers are NOT in the danger zone, and run up the throttle. Still a tremendous nose down pitch, but I got this... I got VECTORS !!! So I give it a heave... nose going down, yank on the stick... HEY, it's going up. Let off the stick... It's going down again... Stick... UP and then the plane decides to do a nice lazy roll to the right and make like a ...

Lawn Dart.

The NTSB analysis reveals a combination of pilot error and equipment failure. The paper clip that had been pressed into service as the linkage between the servo and the control horn had succumbed to a bending failure. This was probably due to excessive stresses arising from the wide traverses of the control surfaces in response to the over compensation of the pathetic excuse for a pilot trying to fly the craft. Recommendations have been made that all SUPER EASY's be grounded until such time as a three point inspection reveals no substitution of paper clip linkages for the recommended carbon fiber rods.

Okay... I ain't got no carbon fiber sticks hanging around the house. I do have some 0.062" titanium wire... hmmmm.....

Meanwhile... is the plane supposed to have a significant nose-down pitching component when it's revved up? The CL of my motor is rather high compared to the line where the three plane surfaces meet... Am I missing something?

And what should I do about the crumpled nose of my poor Lawn Dart? Is complete rhinoplasty recommended? Or do I just sorta bang it into shape and keep going?

Hey AL... you found a good tester for your instructions and designs. I can even screw up a SUPER EASY. Glad to be of service !!!
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 06:46 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
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Originally Posted by Dan_D View Post
Okay, if there is a club trophy for MOST SUCKY, I'm in the running !

Flight one... nicely balanced, run up the motor... wow, there is a large component of rotation pitching the nose down... Oh well, I thought I followed the instructions... maybe the dynamic balance is going to be different than the static forces... Yeah, thats gotta be it... Lets GO.

Heave ! 10 feet later, it's sticking in the ground. Yes, it's a Lawn Dart. Okay, maybe it's the balance...

Flight two ... I've cheated a bit... I've moved the CG back a little... maybe 1/2 inch. Check out the control surfaces, everything looks good... "Everything" ??? What, how many are there? Sheesh, it's not like I've got spoilerators and flapavons programmed into a computer. It's two elevators and 1 rudder. They wiggle, when they is supposed to.

Rev up the motor, trying not to get caught by the prop again... still that huge pitching component... oh well, give it a heave, yank the stick back, and ... Lawn Dart.

Okay, back to the folding table...

I decide that maybe the CG should be behind the propeller... some sort of vector analysis and hand waving and gosh I don't know but it sounds good. Remember the old sign "If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be research." So, I move the battery WAY back, and now it balances about 1/2 inch behind the propeller. YAH BABY, now I am going to show who is smaht !!!!

Back to the flight line, also known as "that wide part in the hay field that's sorta farthest away from the hay bales". Check the surfaces, check my fingers are NOT in the danger zone, and run up the throttle. Still a tremendous nose down pitch, but I got this... I got VECTORS !!! So I give it a heave... nose going down, yank on the stick... HEY, it's going up. Let off the stick... It's going down again... Stick... UP and then the plane decides to do a nice lazy roll to the right and make like a ...

Lawn Dart.

The NTSB analysis reveals a combination of pilot error and equipment failure. The paper clip that had been pressed into service as the linkage between the servo and the control horn had succumbed to a bending failure. This was probably due to excessive stresses arising from the wide traverses of the control surfaces in response to the over compensation of the pathetic excuse for a pilot trying to fly the craft. Recommendations have been made that all SUPER EASY's be grounded until such time as a three point inspection reveals no substitution of paper clip linkages for the recommended carbon fiber rods.

Okay... I ain't got no carbon fiber sticks hanging around the house. I do have some 0.062" titanium wire... hmmmm.....

Meanwhile... is the plane supposed to have a significant nose-down pitching component when it's revved up? The CL of my motor is rather high compared to the line where the three plane surfaces meet... Am I missing something?

And what should I do about the crumpled nose of my poor Lawn Dart? Is complete rhinoplasty recommended? Or do I just sorta bang it into shape and keep going?

Hey AL... you found a good tester for your instructions and designs. I can even screw up a SUPER EASY. Glad to be of service !!!
Hey Dan !

Well ..... a few things :

I hate to say it , but you should build another airframe , and have one of the main goals be to build LIGHT . One thing a trainer should be able to do is fly slowly , and slow flight is a matter of light wing loading ( overall weight RELATIVE to wing area ) . So leave off everything that's not necessary - especially all that tape and the reinforcement rods ( you only need them if you're going to do loops , etc. ) . Use only just enough tape to make functional hinges for your control surfaces .

Also , install your elevator servos so both servo arms are on the same side ( both on the left , or both on the right ) , and then line them up so the pushrod goes straight back to the control horn . If you need a guide for the pushrods you can use a zip tie ( see photo ) . Bamboo skewers will work as pushrods .

Where were you holding it when you ran the throttle up ? If you were holding it on the bottom of the keel , then your hand becomes the pivot point , and being several inches below the motor/prop you will feel the nose pitch down . And were you giving it full throttle to launch ? Might not be necessary .

Did you start with a little up elevator ( reflex ) trimmed in ? Deltas need that to fly well - about 1/4" should do it .

And unfortunately EVERY plane has to be trimmed on it's first flight , something you have to just get through . It sounds like yours needed a little up elevator and a little left rudder .

Here is a link to an SE built by FlyingW here on RCG , obviously an experienced builder/flyer ( notice the bamboo skewer pushrods ) . His build looks very clean and light ( no tape , reinforcement , etc. ) , and you can see how nice it flies in his video .
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...9#post22942709

Keep at it Dan , you'll be flying soon !

Al
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 06:58 PM
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Hey Dan !

I hate to say it , but you should build another airframe , and have one of the main goals be to build LIGHT. [snip]

Also , install your elevator servos so both servo arms are on the same side ( both on the left , or both on the right ) , and then line them up so the pushrod goes straight back to the control horn . If you need a guide for the pushrods you can use a zip tie ( see photo ) . Bamboo skewers will work as pushrods .

[snip]

Keep at it Dan , you'll be flying soon !

Al
*siiiiiggggghhhhh*

Too bad I didn't buy TWO of those combination kits ... oh wait... look in the box. There seems to be another combination kit !!! Almost as if somebody had expected teething problems.

Okay... I just happen to have more foam, more everything... So, NEXT UP...

The NEKKID SUPER EASY. Nothing but the bare necessities.

Oh yeah, the push rods being on the same side. They had been, and then I learned that you can't connect two servos with a Y harness with one flipped compared to the other. That's why the control arm comes off the right on one, and the left on the other. The angle probably also helped put a little extra bending force on the one that failed.

Okay, time to go GET NEKKID !!!! Nekkid SUPER EASY.

Ad ASTRA, NEKKID !!!!!
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 07:16 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
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*siiiiiggggghhhhh*

Too bad I didn't buy TWO of those combination kits ... oh wait... look in the box. There seems to be another combination kit !!! Almost as if somebody had expected teething problems.

Okay... I just happen to have more foam, more everything... So, NEXT UP...

The NEKKID SUPER EASY. Nothing but the bare necessities.

Oh yeah, the push rods being on the same side. They had been, and then I learned that you can't connect two servos with a Y harness with one flipped compared to the other. That's why the control arm comes off the right on one, and the left on the other. The angle probably also helped put a little extra bending force on the one that failed.

Okay, time to go GET NEKKID !!!! Nekkid SUPER EASY.

Ad ASTRA, NEKKID !!!!!
EXCELLENT ! Remember that the goal is to make a practice plane . A NEKKID SE will be good for practice , don't worry about decorating it . Once you get the hang of flying , THEN make yourself a nice looking plane .

One more thing I noticed in your photos , the control horns need to be mounted on the control surfaces so the holes ( where the pushrods attach ) are directly over the hinge line ( see photo ) .

Any reason you can't take the electronics off the first SE and put them on the NEKKID SE ? Save your other set for another plane - now that you're addicted there WILL be another plane !

Al
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 08:21 PM
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EXCELLENT ! Remember that the goal is to make a practice plane . A NEKKID SE will be good for practice , don't worry about decorating it . Once you get the hang of flying , THEN make yourself a nice looking plane .

Any reason you can't take the electronics off the first SE and put them on the NEKKID SE ? Save your other set for another plane - now that you're addicted there WILL be another plane !

Al
No reason, but I want to save that one for a bit. If/when I can fly the NEKKID SE and get a little flight time, then I can go back and see if Lawn Dart can fly... or if it's just too heavy... Once I do that experiment I'll be ready to cannibabblize one of them.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 08:28 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
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No reason, but I want to save that one for a bit. If/when I can fly the NEKKID SE and get a little flight time, then I can go back and see if Lawn Dart can fly... or if it's just too heavy... Once I do that experiment I'll be ready to cannibabblize one of them.
I get it ! Did you see the addition to my last post ?
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:44 PM
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I took a SWAG ... no, actually, just a WAG...

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I get it ! Did you see the addition to my last post ?
"Directly over the hinge line" ... AHHHH... I looked at the photos, had some thoughts about "force of the air flow", "Bernoulli's law", "control arm vectors", and "servo torque" and stuff... came to the conclusion that "this is probably pretty darned important". Then I pulled a number out of my , I mean out of thin air...

Hey, if I ever manage to get one of these puppies to fly, you'll have to update the SUPER EASY build guide

For example...

1) The servo's can't be be hooked up backwards to obtain a symmetrical placement. You have to use the control arm on the same side for both elevator servos.

2) Placement of the control horns

3) Options for the control rods for those of us without carbon fiber rods

4) Recommendations for connecting the ESC to the motor. I used solder and heat shrink tubing, but a lot of people might not have such tools handy. (Test it before you solder!) Would crimp connections be adequate?
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:23 PM
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By the way... lurking just off stage getting ready...

By the way... did anybody notice something in the background in the photo of the Lawn Dart taken from "above" (dorsal view)... It's sitting on the cabinet on the left. It's the partially constructed Gentle Lady that started all of this. She's slowly but surely making progress.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:44 PM
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I'm enjoying your reports Dan !! ..kinda like my own few forays into the "first plane, first try" adventure
Reminds me of some humourous short films I saw as a kid..voice-over by the narrator :

"O-oh, now what's knucklehead think he's doing ?" ,and the like...

this game sure is character-building, doing it on yer own Keep it up Dan !!
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:52 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
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"Directly over the hinge line" ... AHHHH... I looked at the photos, had some thoughts about "force of the air flow", "Bernoulli's law", "control arm vectors", and "servo torque" and stuff... came to the conclusion that "this is probably pretty darned important". Then I pulled a number out of my , I mean out of thin air...

Hey, if I ever manage to get one of these puppies to fly, you'll have to update the SUPER EASY build guide

For example...

1) The servo's can't be be hooked up backwards to obtain a symmetrical placement. You have to use the control arm on the same side for both elevator servos.

2) Placement of the control horns

3) Options for the control rods for those of us without carbon fiber rods

4) Recommendations for connecting the ESC to the motor. I used solder and heat shrink tubing, but a lot of people might not have such tools handy. (Test it before you solder!) Would crimp connections be adequate?
I'll try to update the SE build thread with your recommendations , after all , it's supposed to be SUPER EASY !

Concerning #4 , I always connect the ESC to the motor with bullet connectors ( plugs ) so I can reverse the motor direction when needed ( like if I'm switching from tractor to pusher ) . I solder the female plugs to the ESC ( hot side ) and the male to the motor .

Gonna have the NEKKID SE ready to go by next weekend ? Can't wait to read all about it !

Al
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:46 PM
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Concerning #4 , I always connect the ESC to the motor with bullet connectors ( plugs ) so I can reverse the motor direction when needed ( like if I'm switching from tractor to pusher ) . I solder the female plugs to the ESC ( hot side ) and the male to the motor .

Gonna have the NEKKID SE ready to go by next weekend ? Can't wait to read all about it !

Al
Any recommendations for bullet connectors? I suspect the standard crimp on connectors aren't recommended? Example: http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2104016

This being a holiday weekend, I may have it ready to fly on Thanksgiving (or day after). Hopefully it won't fly like a turkey.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:16 AM
Hot glue held together by foam
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Any recommendations for bullet connectors? I suspect the standard crimp on connectors aren't recommended? Example: http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2104016

This being a holiday weekend, I may have it ready to fly on Thanksgiving (or day after). Hopefully it won't fly like a turkey.
I use this kind http://www.hobbypartz.com/79p-10156.html , but I get them from my local hobby shop .

Your NEKKID SE will soar like an eagle ad astra !
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 09:48 AM
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I use this kind http://www.hobbypartz.com/79p-10156.html , but I get them from my local hobby shop .
A yes, the mythical "local hobby shop". The good thing about living in rural appalachia is that I have hay fields all over, and slopes for soaring (if I can get past the lawn dart stage )

The bad thing ... I live 4 miles outside of the local village, which has 189 people. If I drive 20 miles I get to the county seat, which has a Walmart, and darned little else. I have to drive 40 miles to West Virginia or 60 miles to the regional Big City to find a "local hobby shop". The one in W Va has everything one wants for RC cars and trucks. But it isn't into any other type of RC. It had two RTF planes, and one boat kit... The one in Big City is a real Local Hobby Shop with enthusiastic people behind the counter, and stuff for planes. It's also smack dab in the midst of economic depression, and so it's sorta hit and miss what you can find there... the inventory is really spotty. The most common comment "I can order that for you". That would be okay if I hadn't driven an hour to get there.

I have a friend in Dayton who flies RC planes. I might load up the jeep with NEKKID SE, Lawn Dart, the Hawk Sky, hot melt, CA, foam, etc etc etc and drive out there for Thanksgiving. It's a 4 hour drive, but maybe learning from somebody who views the landing gear as something other than a depth stop for gauging nose penetration would be a good idea.

By the way... I have some Elmers foam board... too heavy ??? Is it back to Dollar Tree (20 mile trip)? Driving into town isn't that bad... I visit the local coffee shop and bakery and add a few more mm to my mid life bulge.
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