|Dec 18, 2012, 06:51 PM|
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
|Dec 18, 2012, 07:38 PM|
|Dec 19, 2012, 12:14 PM|
I've picked up the all-in-one kit that Dan mentioned using for the SUE and I'm looking at it now.
It looks like the motor is meant to be mounted on square tube using a set screw. Does anyone have an idea what the dimensions of that square and hole might be?
I realize this is probably not very clear without the link, let me find it...: http://www.hobbypartz.com/60p-dy-1006.html
Also, when someone says that a servo is 11 grams, are they talking about the weight of the servo itself or some measure of force?
Thanks and sorry about your dog friend, Dan.
|Dec 19, 2012, 02:48 PM|
A little flying time today !!
Well, I got the new radio programming going. I have the new adjusters on SUE TOO. The rain has stopped and although the field is soggy, I figure "I'm going to be up in the air most of the time - what does it matter?"
I got one of those turnigy video cams. I dug up a ball cap, mounted it to the strap, and put it on backwards. The Missus took one look at said "That looks SOOOO wrong on you." What we do for our hobbies.
I check the flight controls... ailerons are working, rudder is working, elevators are working, throttle works. GOOD TO GO. Give it a heave and ...
13 seconds. I can time it with the video. UP UP a little less throttle .... it's turning in the wind... I give it a little right elevon, it rolls to the left... I give it more right elevon, it rolls over to the left and makes like a ground penetrating bomber, and then there is the sound of *CRUNCH*
I didn't say *POOPIES* No, I said
A little checking and the fuselage has pretty much torn off the wings. No problem. Hot melt glue and we're good to go again. But a little checking shows ... the ailerons are working
Just like my flying skills.
Okay, I've just glued her back together, and reflashed the radio... and now to go check that everything goes the way it's SUPPOSED to go... and try it again.
1) Don't just look to see that the control surfaces move. Make sure they move the right way (Gosh, doesn't that seem obvious? If nothing else, I'm learning that I'm a doofus.)
2) The video camera on the cap has to be moved a lot further down if you don't want to capture a lot of video of sky, with an audio of WWWHHHHIIIRRRRRRrrrrrrrr *AHHH* *CRUNCH*
Ad Astra... ?
|Dec 19, 2012, 02:56 PM|
I simply waited until they were far enough away before colorfully speaking my mind to myself.
ad astra per cadis
|Dec 19, 2012, 05:21 PM|
Thanks ! Yes, that should help !!!
|Dec 19, 2012, 05:52 PM|
A lot more flying time ! Lessons learned.
SUE TOO is glued back together. She's holding up like a champ !!! I've reflashed the XMTR and I'm good to go.
Okay, this time I check the surfaces. Up elevator makes it go up, down elevator makes it go down, rudder looks like a barn door flapping in the wind, and the ailerons ... well... is that right? It doesn't like it but ... hm... well, I changed it so it has to be right. LETS GO.
I give her a toss in the air, adjust back the throttle, and hit the ailerons. OH NO, they are still backwards !! I did something wrong ! But wait...
There is an advantage to being so new and so bad... I don't have skills ! It's all brain work, I don't have habits... so, it's just as easy for me to say "I want to go to the right so I move the stick to the left" as it is for me to do the right thing. An advantage to sucking so badly is that I don't have good habits in the way ! So, I fly the thing around the field a couple of times and then land it !
I am feeling TOP OF THE WORLD I am as awesome as a TEST PILOT. I can fly a bird that is set up backwards !!! And I can do it "just as good" as I can do it when it's set up right.
Okay... obviously I'm still learning the EP9X... so, I check the settings and sure enough I hadn't changed nuttin. A little menu time and I've got them changed. Now the ailerons seem right.
I do a few more flights. Nothing to write home about, but I don't crash. Well, except the time I went through the edges of the tree... but I blame that on bad eyesight instead of bad skills.
I also learned that it's really much easier to fly a SUE with a 850 mAh LiPo than with a 2200. The heavier battery seems to give me more problems in balancing and directional stability. It was during one of those learning experiences that I nosed in and the receiver unvelcro'd itself and went to visit Mr Propeller. Surprisingly, the prop died and the receiver - although sliced open like a bad guy in a Conan flick - the receiver still works !!! I just tape it back together and it works !!!
All this time I'm using the little camera on the hat to record everything to show you. I'd love to show you those videos.
Yes,I'd love to be able to show you those videos.
Except... I can't find the camera.
For my last few flights I decided to put the camera on the plane. a little field modification and I've got a camera platform on SUE TOO. I make a few flights. A couple of times the camera unclips itself during the landing, but I always find it just a few feet away. It is hard to see, so I say to myself - "Self, attack a bit of fluorescent ribbon to it when you get it back home."
Then I say "It's getting dark, just one more flight." When SUE lands I go over to collect her, and there is no camera. It's not on the ground. I crawl around on hands and knees for a radius of 10' around the landing point and no camera. It might have fallen off during the flight. By this time it's getting VERY DARK, so I get the flashlight and spend another 30 minutes looking for it.
I marked the landing spot, and made quick notes of what I remember about the flight... and tomorrow I will see if I can find the camera and how well it survives being left out, being heavily dewed upon, and now it's plunging below freezing.
HOWEVER... even if I never find the camera, I had fun. So, what did I learn?
1) Check your control surfaces, and make sure they move in the right directions ! WhichWaysUp has given me a good method for that... THANK YOU.
2) Learn how to use your tools properly (like, learn how to program the XMTR, eh?).
3) Buy prop's in bulk quantities.
4) Don't use heavy batteries with a SUE. Use a small flock of lighter ones.
5) Tie fluorescent ribbon to things that might fall off that you might want to find again.
6) I need curves, or dual rate/expo on my controls. I had them in the old TH9X firmware, and now I'm using linear rates... The dual rate/expo is a lot more forgiving of the cranking and yanking of a beginner.
So, tomorrow morning I will go and see if I can find the camera, practice a little more with SUE TOO, and then maybe... the next SUE ... it's ready... it's strange... More details when I unveil it.
|Dec 19, 2012, 08:19 PM|
The 11 grams is the weight of the servo. The ones in the kit are listed as 8.4 grams, and you can find them at http://www.hobbypartz.com/60p-dy-1007.html
There it says that if 4.8 V is applied to the servo that it can exert 1.5 kg at 1 cm arm length, or 21 ounce at 1 inch arm length. Since the arm I am using is 0.5", that means it can pull 42 ounces. Almost 3 pounds.
What does that mean in terms of a control surface at 30 degrees at the speed of these models? Danged if I know. I am not sure how fast SUE is moving. Even if I knew that, I don't know (yet) how to calculate the force on a control surface for a given speed. I'm sure it's known... I do know that different sized servo's have different abilities.
3.7 g, 4.8 V, 5.6 oz-in http://www.hobbypartz.com/33p-solarservo-d229.html
9 g, 4.8 V, 21 oz-in http://www.hobbypartz.com/60p-dy-1007.html
25 g, 4.8 V, 48 oz-in http://www.hobbypartz.com/33p-solarservo-d657.html
25 g, 6.0 V, 61 oz-in Same servo, more juice
115 g, 6.0 V, 152 oz-in http://www.hobbypartz.com/33p-solarservo-a104.html
So, I'm sure that part of the design of a plane is finding the lightest servo that is capable of handling the forces on the control surfaces for a plane that size. A small plane can use the small 3.7 g servos because it won't be flying as fast and the forces on the small control surfaces will be small.
A HUGE plane will need the 115 g (roughly 1/4 pound) servos, but they can brute force almost 9 pounds of force on an inch long arm. Imagine being able to lift a 10 pound sack of potatos if you shorten that lever arm just a bit.
The other issue is speed - how fast does it take for the servo to turn it's arm by a set amount. Generally they seem to use 60 degrees as a standard. Same group of servos:
3.7 g, 4.8 V, 0.1 seconds
9 g, 4.8 V, 0.3 seconds
25 g, 4.8 V, 0.12 seconds
25 g, 6.0 V, 0.10 seconds
115 g, 6.0 V, 0.16 seconds
As you can see, the ones that come in that kit are a little slow compared to average. However, they are still fast compared to my reaction time. Maybe when I get better.
There are faster servos out there. For example -
1.7 g, 4.2 V, 0.5 oz-in, 0.05 seconds tiny, fast, weak !!!
5.7 g, 4.8 V, 8 oz-in, 0.07 seconds bigger, medium strength, fast...
UNFORTUNATELY, a lot of these specs are easy to find, and a lot of them are hard to find. This is not like electronics where the Data Sheet is pretty much SOP for doing business. There is a lot of data I'm still hunting, and it's not consistently presented or formatted. I'm making up my own compilation for the various things I buy... PITA.
Anyway... this is what I've learned so far. Still a lot to learn. How much V does the BEC of a specific ESC put out? I'm learning about prop size, motor, speed, and amp draw... trying not to burn out the motor/ESC, etc. There is a LOT of stuff to learn. That makes me happy - I'm a bookish sort of nerd.
Thanks for the kind words for Pojke. I missed him on the flying field today, especially when I was searching for the camera. Not that he would have helped find it... but he would have enjoyed following behind me wondering when it was going to become fun. That was him... *yo de do de do de do... lets walk around*
|Dec 19, 2012, 08:51 PM|
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
As always , enjoyed the latest chapter of " Dan's learning curve " !
Can't tell you how many times we've ( my flying buddies and I ) been out in a field searching for things that fell off a plane - or sometimes the whole PLANE ! With all the night flying we do in the summertime we spend quite a bit of time searching with flashlights . Sometimes we give up and try again the next day , and actually end up finding it . And there's been a time or two that we'll stumble upon something that was lost WEEKS ago !
One flying buddy ( Terry ) flew his plane high up into a bunch of trees , where it stayed since we had no way of getting it down . About three months later there was a windstorm . Terry thought to himself " I wonder if that windstorm blew my plane out of those trees " , so he went to the field that was downwind from the trees - and THERE IT WAS ! Everything except the battery still worked !
Ad Ventum ,
|Dec 19, 2012, 09:17 PM|
As always, a great laugh at Dan's
I did the reversed controls thing too - I have a mini-air mustang from nitroplanes.com. At the field it somehow managed to unbind itself from my dx6i - I had replaced the crappy electronics that came with it with an orange 4 channel micro rx. Didn't have a bind plug with me - I now have one hung on my keychain - so I used a penny to short the jumpers and re-bind. Did the preflight and completely spaced out that the elevator was reversed. Yep. I threw it, pulled up and it exploded on the ground in front of me. My 7 year old fell out of her chair laughing at her dum dum dada.
With every mistake I get better
|Dec 20, 2012, 06:55 PM|
Well, last night I went out with a flashlight, under pretext of "the dog's last evening drain", and spent 30 minutes looking for the camera.
Then this morning I checked the weather forecast - cold, with increasing clouds until rain around 1 PM. I decided to try one more time... but since it was barely above freezing I decided to wait until 10 AM. I played on the computer learning more about the TH9X/EP9X ... HOLY SCHNIKIES ... did you know you can multiply the value of the sticks by the value of the pots ... to in essense make a sensitivity value on all your inputs ? With a little cleverness you can make dual input/expo which you can change as you fly ! WOW, I could see how that could be really neat and useful if you knew how to fly. Me, I'm sure I'm gonna fly the poor plane straight into the ground while playing with all the switches and knobs.
Anyway, 10 AM rolled around and I got dressed in warm jacket and hat, with skewers, tape, paint and string and a rake... and I headed out to the aerodrome followed reluctantly by the Babe dog (unlike the boy, shes happy to sit indoors where it's warm). Half way there... a whole 200 yard trip... half way there... it started to rain. What happened to 1 PM Oh well... My loins are girded, I'm going SAR on this camera's ass.
So, I walk out to where the plane had crashed, and I lay out a grid of 3' by 3' squares using the skewers with tape flags. Five squares on each side of the center to make a 10 x 10 grid. That's 100 squares. SURELY the camera has to be in the grid. Then I take the rake and rake each square. When the square is done I use the paint to put a / in it.
It continued to rain... and then it turned windy. 16 to 23 mph gusts according to the weather service.
After 15 minutes I decide it's too miserable for even a DOG... so I take her back home, ask the Missus to towel her off. Then I go back into the cold, wet, windy rain. Hey, I have a choice - the dog depends on ME to make smart choices for her. I can be as stupid as I want. Prerogative of the 'big brain'.
So, after a while I finish the raking... NOTHING. So, step two... hand search. I get down on my hands and knees and feel through every square inch of that ground. When a square is done I take the spray can in my numbing fingers and turn the / into an X. Hmmm... STILL NOTHING !!!
Okay... EXPAND THE PATTERN... I put an additional 3 squares deep on side of the landing path and 5 squares on the side it was aimed towards... in case it fell off on the way in or was catapulted along the path ! Thats just another 80 squares...
Then I do it again... rake search, and finger search. Nothing. No camera, no feeling in my fingers.
Okay, time to search the field. Last night I had done a modified Oil Rig Search along the assumed path... and a Sector Search for 50' from the landing point. No need to reproduce those, so it's time for a Parallel Search...
Now my eyes ain't as good as they used to be, so I can't feel confident of a 10' grid. Nope... I lay out a 5' grid over about 3 acres of the field. Thats about 150,000 square feet to cover. I figure that if I use a "2 steps, halt, Z look" pattern I can finish it in 2 hours.
Now, at this point you, dear reader, might be excused if you are asking - "Is this guy NUTS ??? It's a $20 camera. He's spending HOURS out in the cold driving wind with rain dripping off his nose. Surely his time is worth more than that !!!"
Well, no... that's not quite accurate. First off all, it's turned to FREEZING rain. Secondly, well.. yes... my time is worth more. But I've gotten my teeth into this problem. No small issues like wind, rain, ice, pneumonia and POSSIBLE DEATH are going to stop ME !!! Secondly... that camera contains gems of video... my early flying career. They should be immortalized in a museum somewhere... So the answer is "Yes, this guy is NUTS".
However, it didn't take me 2 hours. It took about 1 hour. I found the camera!!
As far as I can reconstruct, it fell off while I was doing one of my gentle attitude adjustments on the plane (to be more honest - while YANKING the stick to the internally mumbled prayer "oh please, oh please, oh please, oh no, oh no, oh oh, oh oh, oh please, oh please... NO UP UP UP..."
It was laying face down so the black plastic holder was the only part showing. Hard to spot !!! That's why the less systematic searches hadn't found it. I took it home, presented it to the Missus as my TROPHY. I was home from the hunt. MIGHTY CAMERA HUNTER WITH CAMERA. I was flushed with victory. ME MAN !!! WOMAN BE IMPRESSED. She looked up from her reading and said "That's nice."
Then she got UNIMPRESSED when I had to ask her to help me take off my totally soaked clothes. Fingers had stopped working right. This led to a stern wifely lecture in which the terms "old", "sense of a goose", "get sick and die", and "idiot" starred frequently. Of course, I manfully held up my part of the discussion by saying "yes dear" and "you are right" at the appropriate times.
But I got the camera ! It's open right now on the table in front of me. I damped off the water with a paper towel, and now it's drying off. I'll reassemble it tomorrow and see if it survived. The micro SD card has been read, and my priceless memories saved to disk. So what immemorable videos do I have? What triumphs?
1) You really gotta push that hat brim down on your forehead if you want more than a video of sky with a plane occasionally streaking across a corner of the frame...
*sigh* Well, it's all a learning curve, and when this weather clears up I'll be back out there trying to hit the curve balls.
Ad Astra per persistence !!!
|Dec 20, 2012, 11:54 PM|
Coupled Oscillator SUE
Well, it's an awful video, but I think you might get some fun out of it. By the way, the time and date stamp is all wrong. I have to figure out how to set it.
This is a later flight in the day, it's getting close to dark, and its getting cold. There have been a number of rough landings stressing out parts of the plane so structural failure is a possibility (especially in my hands).
You can see the little camera is sorta sharp until I turn on the motor. Then the vibration fuzzes it out. Of course I don't know this (yet). So I give it a heave and it's headed upwards. You can hear me adjusting throttle to control rate of climb, and then suddenly the plane starts swinging wildly. The Velcro has come loose and the battery is swinging back and forth beneath the plane creating a coupled oscillator system. Add the feedback of my attempts to control it and you've got a real stomach yanking video !!!!
I'm actually enjoying the challenge of trying to fly this thing when a higher part of my brain sends a telegram to the decision making section: Every time the battery swings backwards the wires are very close to the prop !!! So I declare an emergency and decide to land it. However, just as I'm coming in for the landing the coupled oscillator yaws the plane to the left and suddenly I'm heading for The Plane Eating Tree. So, I hit the Throttle Safety switch and SUE takes a nose dive faster than a Hollywood Starlet seeing a plate of cocaine at a party.
The last third of the video is an audio capture of some daft old fool talking to himself as he picks up the pieces.
|Dec 21, 2012, 12:11 AM|
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
It was fun to finally see a video of one of your flights , Dan ! Short but packed with thrills ! Did you fly anymore after that ? And what about " strange next SUE " , is she flying yet ?
|Dec 21, 2012, 12:29 AM|
"I have no clue"
Another video from the hat...
You can see SUE TOO up in the air, flying around, you can hear me trim her with the TH9X, and then I augur into the ground.
Brother: "How in the hell did you do that?"
Me: "I have no clue."
Ad Astra, in spite of our siblings
|Dec 21, 2012, 01:26 AM|
OOT EUS (SUE TOO with backward controls)
Okay, this was the second flight of the day... I'm posting them out of order. Once again, ignore the time and date stamp.
I was pretty happy at how quickly I recovered from the realization that the elevons were backwards, and I was enjoying flying. You can hear from my voice the distraction and tension, though. Other than that, I think the captions pretty much describe whats happening, so I won't type much more.
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