HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Dec 09, 2012, 06:21 PM
Registered User
datura's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Dec 2012
319 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_D View Post
But I did order a small flock of 3.7 g servos, and a couple of small motor ESC combos, and a couple of 4 channel micro receivers, so... My plan when ordering was make 0.5 SUE and 0.33 SUE, and try SUE with wing cutouts and saran covering... and maybe even a NON-SUE... (Someday in the near future: Dear SUE, I'm think it's time for me to think about seeing other planes ).
Ad Astra ... (with balloons?)
Hey Dan, got any links for your small motor/ESC combos? I wanna build one of these foam flyers! Thanks.
datura is offline Find More Posts by datura
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Dec 09, 2012, 06:26 PM
Registered User
datura's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Dec 2012
319 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Low and Slow View Post
Hi Justin I had a Sky Surfer which is a Bixler with decals from Banana hobby. It flew nice and was pretty in the air but it was hard to trim to fly fast without porpoising and I landed it hard and broke the fuselage. Well I ordered some parts and scavenged the parts off the wreck and built a couple foamboard planes till I get this flying stuff figured out.

I think the new Bixler is heavier but stronger fuselage which was the weak point in the old plane. I don't know how far you can upgrade the motor unless you go with like a 2212-6 2200kv motor but its not really designed for a larger prop cause of clearance problems. Its as much of a glider as it is plane and flying it fast is kind of like racing a logging truck. It's got a lot of wing and it takes a lot of power to make it fly fast but it was kind of squirrely to me that way. I had more fun heading it into the wind and slowing down almost hovering and go straight up the thing will glide great.

I also have a brand new axn floater jet still in the box untouched it will fly faster better than the bixler. If that is what you want it to do it might serve you better but I'm having fun with the foamboard and building my own flying wings so far to get back to finishing it. At some point you will wreck it and have to decide to buy a kit and transfer parts or whatever or take the parts buy some parts and start building. There are hundreds of plans on this site. Have fun and good luck with your Bix
Thanks for the info! I am actually planning to add ArduPilot to this plane once I get it up and running, plus cameras and things. The Bixler is well known in that arena and I think all of the things you mention will be positives for this use case. It's handy that it also makes a good trainer for my meager skills.

Here's the $64,000 question (OK more like $100): Do you think a person could fly and land one of these on their own without an instructor? I'm a middle aged dude and I have some simulator time under my belt.

My prediction for what is going to happen is that I'll foolishly go out on my own at the first possible chance, crash the Bixler and then start building foamies like you guys are ;-)

Cheers!
Justin
datura is offline Find More Posts by datura
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 09, 2012, 06:46 PM
Registered User
Dan_D's Avatar
United States, OH, Amesville
Joined Nov 2012
149 Posts
Motors and links

Quote:
Originally Posted by datura View Post
Hey Dan, got any links for your small motor/ESC combos? I wanna build one of these foam flyers! Thanks.
The URL for the SUE is motor/esc/3-servo combo is at http://www.hobbypartz.com/60p-dy-1006.html I have ordered several times from them, and if you order on Monday it arrives by Friday. Nice.

The step by step instructions for making a SE (SUE) is found at http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1702077

For the small motor that I just bought for the half SUE and other small planes, http://www.hobbypartz.com/98p-mars-b...l5a-combo.html

It's not the lightest, or the cheapest, but it seems like a good combination of light and cheap. If anybody finds something which is overall better please let me (us) know.

Ad Astra Per Ludi !

Dan
Dan_D is offline Find More Posts by Dan_D
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 09, 2012, 08:00 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
2,653 Posts
It's not the lightest, or the cheapest, but it seems like a good combination of light and cheap. If anybody finds something which is overall better please let me (us) know.

Ad Astra Per Ludi !

Dan[/QUOTE]

Here are some options for micro ( or nano ) planes .

All inclusive ( transmitter , receiver/ESC , motor , 2 batteries , 2 servos/actuators , prop ) for planes up to 22 grams AUW .
http://www.microflight.com/Online-Ca...-Starter-Set-1

Spektrum brick ( this is what's on a Night Vapor ) : all-in-one receiver , ESC , 2 linear servos for brushed motor . Will bind to Spektrum , JR , Parkzone , and Eflite Tx's
http://www.spektrumrc.com/Products/D...dID=SPMAR6410L also available for brushless motors , with plugs for extra linear servos , with 2 ESC's for twin motors , etc.

USA supplier of micro and nano RC gear http://www.bsdmicrorc.com/
balsa or carbon is online now Find More Posts by balsa or carbon
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 09, 2012, 08:56 PM
Registered User
Dan_D's Avatar
United States, OH, Amesville
Joined Nov 2012
149 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by datura View Post
My prediction for what is going to happen is that I'll foolishly go out on my own at the first possible chance, crash the Bixler and then start building foamies like you guys are ;-)

Cheers!
Justin
I think the only reason I didn't absolutely demolish my Hawk Sky on the first few flights was the fact that I had spent some time on a simulator. FMS is free, and while I can see a lot of room for improvement, it's FREE. http://modelsimulator.com/

I purchased a different simulator later because it has a Hawk Sky model in it. I didn't do a really good comparison shop and so I'm not going to recommend or anti-recommend it. I'm sure there are forums on RCGroups which talk about Flight Simulators pro and cons, and that would be the place to look.

By the way, I started a different thread about repairing foam models such as the Hawk Sky and Bixler. I got a lot of good tips. Based on that, plus some photos showing amazing restorations, etc., I got the courage to repair my Hawk Sky. So I don't feel like I've destroyed my poor battered bird - but she is getting time in R&R until I get good enough with the DTFB and sims to feel like I've got a better chance.

Good luck and keep me/us informed on what you do and how it goes.

Ad Astra per $2 Air Frames

Dan
Dan_D is offline Find More Posts by Dan_D
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 09, 2012, 10:34 PM
Registered User
datura's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Dec 2012
319 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by balsa or carbon View Post
...
Wow, tiny! Thanks for the links!
datura is offline Find More Posts by datura
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 10, 2012, 02:17 AM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
2,653 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by datura View Post
Wow, tiny! Thanks for the links!
Take a look at this tiny one ( notice the Bic lighter for scale ! )
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...hmentid=472110
balsa or carbon is online now Find More Posts by balsa or carbon
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 10, 2012, 10:54 AM
Exodus 4:13
bhoov128's Avatar
United States, FL, Davenport
Joined May 2012
8,755 Posts
Congratulations Dan

Hi Dan - just finished reading this thread (because I have nothing to do at work ) and absolutely loved it. You had me laughing, your wife had me laughing, and it's very easy to identify with you!

Just some observations -
1. To Al - I find it hilarious the number of people who call your super easy "a bad trainer" and "difficult to fly" who have obviously never a. visited your thread b. built one c. flown one
2. One suggestion, ditch the paperclips. They're too soft and mush in my opinion to be of any value. If you can't source music wire at one of your not-so-local hobby shops then try welding wire from Lowe's or HD.
3. I found myself laughing about the overengineering aspect - reading how your prop in the slot was +/- 0.0070 inches out of alignment from 6.332 degrees dead center on the balsa motor mount stick of unknown compressive strength. I did the same exact thing. I had my calipers and angle gauge and feeler gauges and nerd magnifying glasses ... then I realized, wow, I've written notes all over 6 pages of notepad paper, I can't read what I've written (why is there a recipe for meatloaf here??), and my browser is on a webpage dedicated to homemade autoclaves for curing carbon fiber monocoque race car chassis....... and my plane is still pieces of foam cut out with the plans still glued to them. Love your relatable writing style. All the poopies made my immature side chuckle - oh who am I kidding I have no mature side.
4. keep at it with the sim. They definitely help, the next thing you know you'll be floating lazily around the sky (well, your plane will) and thinking.... why, I can hardly remember the time I was building homebrewed mining drills. No more foam confetti!

Good luck, keep up the good work!
bhoov128 is online now Find More Posts by bhoov128
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Snice Slick
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 10, 2012, 11:49 AM
when down=up, up=expensive
whichwaysup's Avatar
United States, VA, Roanoke
Joined Apr 2012
2,760 Posts
Dan -

I sent you a PM, but you should be recognized publicly as well, not just for your raw determination and self effacing humor, but your writing ability as well. I stumbled on your thread last night and got in a bit of trouble with the Missus for shaking the bed and waking her up as I laughed (with you, not at you, of course) at your antics in this heroic endeavor. Not sure how long you were planning on keeping this up, but I'm looking forward to following your journey. I have to think that if Wilbur and Orville had access to this sort of a forum, it may have been a very similar series of trials, errors, and triumphs.

Here's to the future of all the SUE's to come, may the mechanics never fail the pilot . . . and vice versa - Per Aspera Ad Astra!
whichwaysup is online now Find More Posts by whichwaysup
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Clever sayings
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 10, 2012, 02:12 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
2,653 Posts
Dan , thought you might enjoy this : " Ad Lunam "
http://www.jennyjones.com/media/imag...ce_kramden.jpg

Al
balsa or carbon is online now Find More Posts by balsa or carbon
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 10, 2012, 10:43 PM
Registered User
Dan_D's Avatar
United States, OH, Amesville
Joined Nov 2012
149 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by balsa or carbon View Post
Take a look at this tiny one ( notice the Bic lighter for scale ! )
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...hmentid=472110
Oh my GOODNESS...

Years ago I used to stand in front of a glass cabinet and marvel at what was then billed as "the worlds smallest motor". It was 1/64'th of an inch on a side, and had been made by William McLellan in 1960 using a watchmaker's lathe, a microscope and tweezers. So, micro fliers can shrink a bit more before we have to get to the modern methods of micro-machining of silicon surfaces.

Per Minori Astra !!!
Dan_D is offline Find More Posts by Dan_D
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 10, 2012, 11:46 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
2,653 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_D View Post
Oh my GOODNESS...


Per Minori Astra !!!
Oh my GOODNESS is right ! I really admire people who have those skills .

If you go to that guy's ( Lad ) post attachments there are some videos showing his little planes flying in his dining room .

Al
balsa or carbon is online now Find More Posts by balsa or carbon
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:56 PM
Registered User
Dan_D's Avatar
United States, OH, Amesville
Joined Nov 2012
149 Posts
Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoov128 View Post
Hi Dan - just finished reading this thread (because I have nothing to do at work ) and absolutely loved it. You had me laughing, your wife had me laughing, and it's very easy to identify with you!
Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoov128 View Post
2. One suggestion, ditch the paperclips. They're too soft and mush in my opinion to be of any value. If you can't source music wire at one of your not-so-local hobby shops then try welding wire from Lowe's or HD.
Yes, they certainly were useless. I've ordered some music wire from an on-line-HS, and until then, I'm using bamboo skewers with wires heat shrunk to the ends. I tried adjusting those with pliers and force, but that didn't work very well either. So, now I am further going to improve it by using screw connectors at the servo end. They are in the same order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoov128 View Post
3. I found myself laughing about the overengineering aspect - reading how your prop in the slot was +/- 0.0070 inches out of alignment from 6.332 degrees dead center on the balsa motor mount stick of unknown compressive strength. I did the same exact thing. I had my calipers and angle gauge and feeler gauges and nerd magnifying glasses ... then I realized, wow, I've written notes all over 6 pages of notepad paper, I can't read what I've written (why is there a recipe for meatloaf here??), and my browser is on a webpage dedicated to homemade autoclaves for curing carbon fiber monocoque race car chassis....... and my plane is still pieces of foam cut out with the plans still glued to them. Love your relatable writing style. All the poopies made my immature side chuckle - oh who am I kidding I have no mature side.
*laugh* Glad to know I'm not the only guy who went overboard on the measurements. At the time I was doing it I figured I was probably WAAAY over the top, but having failed so miserably... MISERABLY I figured I'd err on the side of too-good and do a binary search to narrow in on "good enough".

Funny thing about the "poopies" - I am a volunteer firefighter and the younger FF often pepper their speech with all sorts of curse words... and nobody notices. But if I stick in one "darn" or "grambabble" it gets noticed - partly because I wear the white hat, but also because it's unusual. Everybody is used to the f-bombs, but nobody expects a "PIFFLE".

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoov128 View Post
Good luck, keep up the good work!
Thanks - I can hardly wait until I get back from this business trip. My packages should be waiting for me, and I have 2 weeks of vacation to build planes and crash them.

Ad Astra !!

Dan
Dan_D is offline Find More Posts by Dan_D
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 11, 2012, 08:25 PM
Registered User
builderdude's Avatar
United States, TX
Joined Jun 2011
2,838 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Low and Slow
Hi Justin I had a Sky Surfer which is a Bixler with decals from Banana hobby. It flew nice and was pretty in the air but it was hard to trim to fly fast without porpoising and I landed it hard and broke the fuselage. Well I ordered some parts and scavenged the parts off the wreck and built a couple foamboard planes till I get this flying stuff figured out.

I think the new Bixler is heavier but stronger fuselage which was the weak point in the old plane. I don't know how far you can upgrade the motor unless you go with like a 2212-6 2200kv motor but its not really designed for a larger prop cause of clearance problems. Its as much of a glider as it is plane and flying it fast is kind of like racing a logging truck. It's got a lot of wing and it takes a lot of power to make it fly fast but it was kind of squirrely to me that way. I had more fun heading it into the wind and slowing down almost hovering and go straight up the thing will glide great.

I also have a brand new axn floater jet still in the box untouched it will fly faster better than the bixler. If that is what you want it to do it might serve you better but I'm having fun with the foamboard and building my own flying wings so far to get back to finishing it. At some point you will wreck it and have to decide to buy a kit and transfer parts or whatever or take the parts buy some parts and start building. There are hundreds of plans on this site. Have fun and good luck with your Bix
Quote:
Originally Posted by datura View Post
Thanks for the info! I am actually planning to add ArduPilot to this plane once I get it up and running, plus cameras and things. The Bixler is well known in that arena and I think all of the things you mention will be positives for this use case. It's handy that it also makes a good trainer for my meager skills.

Here's the $64,000 question (OK more like $100): Do you think a person could fly and land one of these on their own without an instructor? I'm a middle aged dude and I have some simulator time under my belt.

My prediction for what is going to happen is that I'll foolishly go out on my own at the first possible chance, crash the Bixler and then start building foamies like you guys are ;-)

Cheers!
Justin
I wanted to comment on a couple of things. Regarding the Bixler, do you think it was porpoising because it was tail heavy? That's what it sounds like. What might work better is to try to use a larger battery. It'll put more weight in the nose and you'll get longer flights too.

I learned on a Multiplex Easy Star about 6 years ago. I've been building a lot longer than that, but that's when I actually got my RC "wings". My opinion of the Easy Star is that out of the box, it isn't the greatest, but BOY does it have a lot of potential!!! Out of the box, it was underpowered and the rudder was so small that it didn't have enough control authority. Especially with that tiny 5 inch prop.

Fast forward to today. After many bang ups, old reliable is still flying and is one of my favorite planes to take up. Of course, now it has ailerons, a much more powerful motor, a 7x4 3-bladed pusher prop, and a much larger T-tail that I built myself. With the 2200 mah lipo, it'll fly for half an hour (gliding a lot of the time). The thing about the EZ Star is that, like the Bixler, it has a really great wing.
And my thrust angle with the brushless outrunner is neutral. Seems to fly better that way.

So experiment with your Bixler some more. Try a little more nose weight, or use a little down elevator trim until it flies hands-off perfectly. Try a larger 3-bladed pusher prop to get more out of the motor (but use a watt-meter to make sure you don't over-stress your motor). Change the thrust angle to something more neutral maybe. If my EZ Star ever finally dies a horrible death like my AXN Floater Jet did, then I will replace it with the really large Bixler. But I've flown that thing through a barbed wire fence once and it's still flying. (That's a funny story I should share some time).

About the AXN Floater Jet, what a misnomer! That is no floater. It is a very fast plane with a very powerful motor! It's also aerobatic. But it's a tricky one to fly.
builderdude is online now Find More Posts by builderdude
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 11, 2012, 10:51 PM
Exodus 4:13
bhoov128's Avatar
United States, FL, Davenport
Joined May 2012
8,755 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_D View Post
Funny thing about the "poopies" - I am a volunteer firefighter and the younger FF often pepper their speech with all sorts of curse words... and nobody notices. But if I stick in one "darn" or "grambabble" it gets noticed - partly because I wear the white hat, but also because it's unusual. Everybody is used to the f-bombs, but nobody expects a "PIFFLE".

Dan
Okay, I expect you should change the names of your twin SE's to "Piffle" and "Kerfuffle."
bhoov128 is online now Find More Posts by bhoov128
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Snice Slick
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question Newbie with Two Year old 8S lipo's, Pictures (edit, its also an e-bike) drebsdorf Batteries and Chargers 10 Sep 02, 2012 02:08 PM
Question Reincarnating an old Digi-Trio with new innards? Rabbit5487 Radios 13 Aug 27, 2012 06:10 AM
Discussion Teaching an old car new tricks?..... WhtSpirit01 Off-road Cars 2 Apr 21, 2012 10:17 AM
An Old NEWBIE... HarshaDS Beginner Training Area (Aircraft-Electric) 10 Mar 30, 2004 07:54 AM
Newbie question from an old airhead... randall1959 Beginner Training Area (Aircraft-Electric) 6 Feb 16, 2004 09:43 PM