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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:52 AM
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United States, WA, Moses Lake
Joined Feb 2012
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Hey Al can you tell me if there is a way to run off the balance plug or can I just splice in to the esc battery connection probably on the esc side. I don't want to carry an extra battery cause weight means death to my planes I'm just running the 2cell 24 gram motors and maybe even a smaller motor than that which I assume are 2 cell motors also. I see some of the cheap hk lights that run off the receiver at 3 or 4 volts but I guess I think I like the 6-12 volt lights probably better. I can see where they would really be bright on a 3 cell battery I didn't want to buy another battery but I guess I could.

Which begs another question. Can I even run one of those hxt type motors on 3 cell? They recommend 2 cell so that's what I have is 2cell 800 batteries two of them. I think some guys use 3 cell batts but I never have I don't want to burn them up but then again I bust em anyway. I like the lighter weight of the two cell jobs I have some 3 cell bricks but I'd like to keep the weight of the plane down to the 8-10 oz range if I could.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:56 AM
Registered User
United States, WA, Moses Lake
Joined Feb 2012
429 Posts
I built a delta wing plane that has a 3 cell 50 gram motor that flies great but with my flying skills its basically an unguided missile and at 16 ounces it could do some damage and theres no way I'm going to try flying that bomb at night. I need light slow and floaty
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:37 AM
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United States, WA, Moses Lake
Joined Feb 2012
429 Posts
It's my day off and if the fog lifts I am taking my armada to a small neighboring town at my secret delta base alternate flying site. A nice cushy 80 acre alfalfa field where I can launch my attack at the unsuspecting public. Here is my sweetheart kesl with the annihilator my primary weapon of destruction. Notice the folded kfm over the wing core? It really helps keep the cg forward which is critical on wings anyway. Also notice how I removed tape and paper from the back. I had to do that to balance it and lighten it up. With its 37 degree sweep it likes to be tail heavy right out of the build. My next one I left just a strip of paper at the back of the wing core at the hinge line and left the paper on the elevons and taped them. I origionally taped and papered the whole thing and the chubby bugger weighed 14 oz. I got it down to 12 the next one I hope down around 11 if I can. There is a 2 inch hollow between the folded leading edge and the wing core I run my wires down but plenty of room for lights also. Hmm I'm getting ideas and they hurt.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 12:10 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
2,650 Posts
To see the plane really well I like running the LED's off a 3 cell . HobbyKing has them as small as 360mah , 32.4 grams . http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...poly_Pack.html

Yes , you can run the lights off the balance plug , but that will significantly reduce your flight time , especially if you're running EVERYTHING off of one small battery .

One of my night flyers is an Electrifly Flylite http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXYGD7&P=7- SUPER stable , slow-flying , high wing dihedral . The motor I have on it is a HexTronik 24 gram 2712-12 running off an 800mah 2 cell. For the lights I put an 800mah 3 cell under the wing ( on the CG ) . It takes it about a minute to climb up to about 300 - 400 feet , and then it will cruise around looking like a UFO for about 20 minutes . Each 800mah 2 cell is good for about a 20 min. flight , the 800mah 3 cell for the lights is good for about 4 of those flights .

If you want to build your own plane , this one is similar to the Flylite in stability and slow flight . http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ighlight=j+bug A flying buddy of mine has made two , one large , one small . He uses the large one for night flying , here is a video of it at night .
Night bug (1 min 16 sec)
He has a transmitter activated flashing pattern unit from HobbyKing on it .
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 02:40 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
2,650 Posts
Hey Dan ,

Someone posted this on facebook , and since you write really well I thought you might get a kick out of it :
http://myprcoach.wordpress.com/2012/...to-write-good/ I am totally guilty of #4 and #10 !

Al
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 04:17 PM
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United States, OH, Amesville
Joined Nov 2012
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Fat Butt SUE flies... sorta...

So, Not having made SUE II, the Daughter of NEKKID SUE, I decided to see if I could fly the 409 Obese SUE. The name Fat Butt SUE was chosen, and the Missus did the nose art.

WOW... what a difference between FB SUE and NEKKID SUE. It took 80% throttle to get FB SUE moving... and then things happened FAST. My big problem was oscillation from a positive feedback loop.

This was partly caused by my mis-adjustment of the control horns. I moved them to the proper position (holes over the hinge), but used the same hole as on NEKKID SUE... the lowest, closest hole. This meant that the control surfaces could swing like barn doors... not quite to 90 degrees, but I could definitely get some real flap action going. That also meant that the stick was probably too sensitive, especially for my monkey-on-speed approach to control. Especially at the higher speeds for Fat Butt SUE as compared to NEKKID SUE. I'll bet that the effect of a given deflection goes up as some power of the speed, eh ??? Double the speed and the same control surface deflection causes a lot more force ???

Anyway... I managed some great aerobatics... inverted flight, loop, stall and recovery, stall without recovery... It would have been WONDERFUL if any of that had been planned ! But here is a typical flight:

Check the control surfaces, check the field, run it up to 80% and give her a heave... Okay, she's going... a litttle up on the elevators... OOOPS, down... okay, hey, she's level... and going towards the end of the field. Gotta think about this turning stuff. Stick to the left... hummm... losing altitude, nudge the elevator up... HEY, she stands on her tail pretty... okay, before she stalls lets use less elevator... OKAY, I got her... now, lets try that turn again... ooops, she's banking too far, less rudder... rocking back the other way, TOO FAR... more rudder... OOOPS, BANKING THE FIRST WAY AND ROLLING INTO A DIVE ... RUDDER THE OTHER WAY AND UP ELEVATOR... oh wait... she's rolled upside down now... and the up elevator means she is heading towards the mineral rights on my land... MAYDAY MAYDAY. AAAIIEEEE.... *SPLOT*

Actually, I made several good circuits, got some good recoveries and saves... Other than the fact that I pounded the living poop out of poor Fat Butt SUE - to the point where I'm thinking of retiring her - it was a good day. Didn't destroy any batteries, didn't chop any wires... HOLY POOPIES

Ad Astra
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 07:27 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
2,650 Posts
Sounds like you got some nice EXCITING practice in on FB-SUE ! Aerobatics are FUN ! The extra weight forces her to fly faster , doesn't it ?

Does your radio have high/low rates ? If so , you can set it up so with the flip of a switch you can go to low rates ( less deflection ) . If your radio can't do that , then before your next SUE flight adjust your pushrods so you have about 45* deflection on the elevators and about 30* on the rudder .

One hint about building a new SUE , you can cut ( on the hinge line ) the rudder and elevators ( already beveled , and with control horns attached ) out of an old SUE to put on the new SUE . That saves a little time not having to make all new R and E's .

Ad astra - it's really happening !

Al
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 07:42 PM
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United States, OH, Amesville
Joined Nov 2012
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MEGA SUE, or ME Sue (Multi Engine)

Okay, while shopping today I stopped in at a Craft 2000 and found foam board... Blue, Yellow... and 32 by 40 inch Elmers board.

Twice as big. Of course it would be silly for a newbie with so little experience to even consider anything other than SUE and other proven models.

So I bought a few sheets.

So... shall we make MEGA SUE, or ME (Multi Engine) SUE ?

MEGA SUE

Basically the same beast, BIGGER. Will need new motor, new ESC, new servos... any suggestions ?

ME SUE

Use a counter rotating propeller pair from the quad copter world. Probably can use the same motor, same esc (x 2 each)... but probably still need new servos. Make a slot that is 18" wide and mount the propeller sticks on the wings ?

Or is this a REALLY BAD IDEA ? Are planes that are 2x bigger in each dimension 4x harder to fly ???

(Which means I won't try it for a few months )

Ad Astra, in a big way !!!
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 08:12 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
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I think it's a GREAT idea ! Actually the bigger ones are easier to fly , the only negative ( for me , anyway ) is that it would be difficult or impossible to get into my car .

Two motors with counter rotating props would be a plus because that would eliminate torque roll ( they cancel each other out ) . So when you throttle up , the plane will accelerate and climb straight .

If you double the wing area , but increase the weight by only 1.2X or 1.5X you'll have lighter wing loading ( overall weight relative to wing area ) . Lighter wing loading = slower flight . Here are two examples of light wing loading :

This plane has a 3 foot wingspan and the AUW is 78 grams ! Looks like slow motion .

F-3-P Expert Ланцов Алексей (2 min 17 sec)


This is a 19 foot wingspan kite , powered by a vectored thrust unit where the motor/prop up by the nose turn left and right , up and down , pulling the nose in the direction you want to go . It flies so slow , sometimes it looks as if it's standing still !

RC - VECTOR KITE 19 * 19' Delta Kite * Vector Control * (5 min 16 sec)


Al
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 10:25 PM
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United States, OH, Amesville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balsa or carbon View Post
If you double the wing area , but increase the weight by only 1.2X or 1.5X you'll have lighter wing loading ( overall weight relative to wing area ) . Lighter wing loading = slower flight .
Al
Unfortunately, it's gonna be heavier... The foam board is Elmers, which is a lot heavier. I can probably save some weight by using regular dollar tree for the fuselage, unless it's a twin engine... then I might have to use two fuses for protection...

I wonder if one should just glue together 2 20x30 sheets to get a 30 by 40... then it would be just a little over 2x the weight... save some on the motor because one could probably get away with a motor that is 1.5x as heavy (any suggestions)? Also, what affordable servos ? I guess the 9g servos from the combo kit wouldn't be beefy enough to swing the barn door sized elevator and rudder ?

One way to build a ME SUE with 2x wing area and 2x weight... cut the triangles for a SUE, and then glue those to an uncut square of foam board. So one could have a flat center section with up curved wing tips, OR you could cut the center piece lengthwise and make a polyhedreal wing. The motors could mount at each join... sort of like two SUE's joined by a square section in between. Make most of the trailing edge ( 16 of the 20" wide) of the flat part an elevator, and have rudders on each fuselage ... that protects each motor.

It's basically getting towards a FPB, with HUGE wing tips...

Now, if one wants to lighten it... start cutting windows in the foam board, and use that thin cellophane to cover it over...

However, time to make SUE II, so I'll have something to fly tomorrow.

Ad Astra
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 11:07 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
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I made a SUE with a center rectangle between the wings . At first with ailerons it wouldn't turn , so I added rudders and it flew OK .

There's a guy here on RCG who builds jumbo deltas with very light wing loading out of super light-weight R-tech insulation foam from Home Depot http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1538174 . I tried some R-tech for a hovercraft I was making , it's a PAIN to cut with a blade , you'd probably have to use a hot wire cutter .

I think the 9 gram servos would work on a jumbo SUE if you put the control rods on the INNER hole on the servo , and the OUTER hole on the control horn . That would be the least amount of strain on the servo , and give you mild deflection on the control surfaces ( no aerobatics ! ) .

Gonna have SUE II ready to go by tomorrow ? - very cool ! Can't wait to read the report !

Al
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 11:48 PM
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United States, OH, Amesville
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Big foam board follow up

Adams - 20 x 30 = 600 sq in, 105 grams... 0.175 grams/sq in

Elmers - 32 x 40 = 1280 sq in, 504 grams... 0.397 grams/sq in

What kinda measurement is dis? --> GRAMS PER SQUARE INCH ???

2.25 times heavier... OUCH...
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 02:09 AM
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United States, OH, Amesville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balsa or carbon View Post
Gonna have SUE II ready to go by tomorrow ? - very cool ! Can't wait to read the report !

Al
Announcing the birth of SUE II, at 30" long and weighing 330 grams AUW (minus battery).

1) Colored foam board with one side colored can be ... tricky.

If you lay both pieces with the colored side up and cut from the upper left to the lower right, you get pieces with parity (chirality). You can't make a plane with the colors both UP or both DOWN. It has to retain the same parity as you go around your join axis. Try it with some 3x5 cards and colored scribbling on one side only.

To make a SUE with the colors both UP or DOWN, you have to lay the color UP on one and cut from upper left to lower right and then lay the color DOWN on the other and still cut from upper left to lower right... OR you lay them both colored side UP but cut one from upper left to lower right and cut the other from upper right to lower left.

I didn't do that. I cut them wrong. So, I'm going to make one right handed screw SUE II, and one left handed screw SUE II. I had wanted to make one SUE II with a pretty top and one with a flashy bottom. Oh well...

[On proof-reading the previous paragraph it sounds really wrong. I meant "screw thread"... helix... twist... and as far as top and bottom goes... I give up. ]

2) Considering that I am still auguring in half the time, I decided to build something intermediate between NEKKID SUE and FAT BOTTOM SUE ... this one is mostly nekkid, but the pointy bit has received significant structural reinforcement. I used hot melt to attach 3 mm BBQ skewers on the leading edge of the first 8 inches on both wings and the fuselage, AND also the fillets where the wings meet the fuselage. The leading edges were then reinforced with a bit of fiberglass reinforced tape. It added almost 14 grams... but I need that strength. Probably just mean it will break in NEW and EXCITING ways...

3) I finally got the new XMTR to work and I figured out ELEVON control. So, I will have ELEVON and RUDDER and THROTTLE. I can confuse myself in totally new ways and then crash even more dramatically

Actually, I don't think I can crash any more dramatically. I've got that down.

Welp, it's 3 AM, and time for dis one to go to bed and dream...

Ad Astra
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 12:23 PM
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Today's Flight Report

Quote:
Originally Posted by balsa or carbon View Post
Gonna have SUE II ready to go by tomorrow ? - very cool ! Can't wait to read the report !
Al
Today's Flight Report

A0001/12 NOTAMN
Q) ZID/MXLC/IV/NO/000/999/3926N08288W001
A) AAAD
B) 1212021700
C) 1213031200
E) DUE WTHR MOD RAIN UNSUIT RWY. FULL CLSR

Yup... the NOTAM was issued closing the Ad Astra Aerodrome due to rain.
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 01:38 PM
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United States, WA, Moses Lake
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Dan, I like your idea of cutting out parts of the foam board and then covering with cellophane. I'll bet that could be done selectively in the centers of your wing panels to not really lose much stiffness, but shed some weight sort of a stronger nekkid sue. The lighter you can make it the slower and easier to fly I think. Maybe work on the fuselage panel also and hollow some of that out. Call it Chopper Sue. Dollar Tree packing tape is thin and light and very sticky. It's a pain to get off the roll but its great stuff for its lightness. Tape the cellophane on. Your packing a lot of foam and paper on that plane.

I'd also move the linkages more to the center of the servo and out on the control horns. You don't want to overcontrol the plane that's why its so quick and twitchy. Setting about 30% expo on your radio would smooth it all out too.
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