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Old Nov 04, 2012, 05:06 PM
Registered User
United States, KY, Bowling Green
Joined Nov 2012
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Question
What the Heck Have I Got (NOOB HERE!)

Hey Folks,

Joined as soon as I noticed that HobbyKing had a forum;

At the risk of sounding like a 'one-timer', I'm gonna make a few statements to indicate my interest, commitment, and proficiency level, and move on to my first post, which is--yes--a BIG, Dumb, NOOB of a question, I'm quite sure:
(Spoiler: My question is basically "What is it?").

Basically, I've been interested in flying R/C stuff for years--just the flying stuff, mainly electronic, too. I never once enjoyed even the idea of owning an R/C car; for some reason (basically--FLIGHT!!), I just enjoy doing R/C 'e-flight' stuff so far.

I'm fairly poor, so I don't have ANY expendable income, so...'That's no fun', I know.

I recently moved into a 'shangri la' type neighborhood, where I have tons of land (acreage) and blindly bought an R/C heli, only after shopping for years, and then, only USED, and only a small, 'toy', WiFli unit, which I'm sure you all know as having been sold originally at Radio Shack--an app-controlled device.

I rate my experience with that little chopper at around a '10' (1 to 10), because I quickly realized how much fun I was having, even at around the mere 5 mins. of flight time on an hour-long charge (at least--the thing's like my phone...yeesh!).

I solidly trounced it right-out-of-the-box, and quickly 'broke' it in pretty much literally, crashing it around 30 times my first night out.

I said 'out', I meant it--yes, I took the thing outside the first flight, because the box said 'indoor/outdoor', and heck, sometimes I almost believe one or two things a politician says, even (esp. if I voted for him)...

SO...

Loved it. Hooked. Modded it twice the first couple of months I had it (Trust me--blog forthcoming if I can see some support on THIS question I have here).

Hence my desire to buy my 2nd chopper--I was in a local hobby shop looking for parts and advice on my 'WiFli', and saw a demo looking so much like it...but BIGGER!

I'd say it like this: 'Biiiiggerrrr'!

Like a kid in a candy shop, I had to have it. Turns out I had to wait quite awhile--the shop was moving to a new location, and the manager (quite hands-on in the moving process) was actually EXTREMELY busy at the new location for weeks. Around two weeks later, after I'd given up hope and forgotten, I got a call from the shop telling me they'd asked the manager about it, and I could have it for $45.

I ran back in, paid for it, and even picked up a replacement tail-fin assembly for under $8, as I had some crazy idea that these were good parts to have (and it was cheap, and I wanted to show some commitment to the shop for having sold me this heli so 'dirt cheap').

This 2nd chopper reminded me of the 'Syma's I'd seen all over the 'net; it was definitely not app-controlled, but has a big, plastic 'handled' remote with a tiny round 49MHz sticker on the back. It takes six AAs, which hold their charge in the remote pretty well--I'd say weeks, use or no.

The heli itself looks just like my WiFli (OF COURSE--WHAT A NOOB THING TO SAY), except at around twice the scale. I've posted some picks I took today, because I've pert-near ruined it now that I've 'worked' on it so much.

Suffice it to say, it's been fun, but not '$50 fun', so I'm gonna keep it, and I'm now going to become addicted to buying parts for it, whether they're made for it or not.

I'm learning that's basically the 'spirit' here--have fun, don't-care-if-it-dies, because it's just another opportunity to 'Pheonix' these suckers into something better.

Oh...it's getting there.

So...what is it? Somebody help me!? When I got it, it was a demo--no box; in used-but good-condition, working well enough, with some drawbacks very similar to what I've experienced with my WiFli.

First, a list of the identifying features (which I have no idea how to ID):
  • around 15 inches long, with original canopy
  • 4 multicolored, tiny, chasing LEDs on PCBs, down either side (driver's side, near power button)
  • Black main drive gears (which I read online mean it's 'genuine'--but only if Syma, right?)
  • motors have solid metal casings (not green or red, nor black OR white)...???
  • single RED flashing LED on main PCB (when it worked earlier this very day)--so....genuine???
  • oh--it's 'metal'--and plastic, of course; but it's tough (aluminum? alloy?)
  • the main PCB (picture included) is 'silk-screened' "WB-L109R-C" and dated "2010-12-24"
  • the original canopy *WAS red/white, with black 'window' stickers(or painted?)
  • other than the chasing LEDs on either side, there is also one up front (underneath front of original canopy), and one about 1cm forward, under the rear rotor motor, both facing down

*yeah, I 'killed' the 'original canopy' trying to 'prep' it for painting, when I idiotically sprayed it with aerosol paint remover (don't judge...or at least, 'be nice'. NEVER AGAIN)

A list of the parts I've either destroyed myself, or needed replacing outright:
(this is why I'm asking what I have here--you should see how clunky my home-made canopy looks...like some old Soviet heavy-duty utility chopper):
  • main PCB
  • canopy
  • drive gears

Some explanation: I think I shorted the main PCB just this afternoon, while trying to cut back some of the plastic battery mount (turns out this was also pretty dumb, as this heli, being metal, dropped less weight than measurable for doing this little 'operation'). Anyway, I could smell it, and at this point, I knew I was 'done' and needed another one.

The canopy was mainly what I wanted, to begin with--in fact, more than one, for various purposes, but mainly to try out some ideas I had for customizing it; I wanted the actual part to work with. The customizations I have in mind are basically just stuff I bought from Hobby Lobby: one, a set of nifty wet-transfer stickers, and the second one, a similar set, but stickers made for pinewood derby cars. These weren't cheap--they were foolishly bought by me when I first got the chopper, and of course, before I melted the original canopy with the aerosol stripper (again--"d'OH!" says enough, for me).

My drive gears are fine...for now. I've read SO much online about them stripping, that I just want to be prepared in the eventuality that mine get stripped. I have no ideas about doing the standard 'superglue mod' to keep them from moving on their axles, either, until I learn more about the quirks of this machine, and how to treat it better.

Finally, here is 'my' list of little 'quirks'--things I didn't like, that it's been doing, and what I'd like to do about it (or what I hope I could do by modding it, maybe). I list this because it may help somebody 'help me' ID the thing, who otherwise wouldn't be able to (even with the pics, or perhaps because it's been 'modded' so much the pics aren't really helpful to anybody):
  • from 'day 1', it lacked forward momentum, so I've never been able to successfully 'pitch' it forward enough to gain actual flight control over the thing
  • the controller (the 49MHz sticker on back)--it worked it for months so far
  • that 'lack of pitch' has been attributed to battery location...I'm moving mine, no matter what, when I learn more
  • the antenna was neatly wrapped around both struts, but forward and back...I'd just re-wrapped it around the FRONT parts only when I shorted the main PCB, so I haven't tested this to see if it helps or not...it would help me to know if this helps 'what I have'
  • replacement parts, replacement parts...I wanna know if there are any carbon ones available--I literally killed this thing, and, like the $6 million dollar man, I wanna make it stronger...faster...better...not keep it unprepared for my hazard-prone flying methods

Finally--I'll 'revisit' the control. I have a HUUUUGE question about some buttons placed around the right joystick--are these 'trim-control' buttons? Or what? I read this review on Amazon saying something about 'a' button that switches the tail rotor from slow to fast...but I don't think so, on this one, right?

No threat, here, but I might take the controller apart just to see if they're wired or not. It's interesting to think I could have been using these to pitch it forward harder, to keep it from being carried away in a gentle (2MPH) breeze...whether the thing is indoor or out, it's too big and heavily made to have been doing that.

one more thing...
THANKS!!!
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 07:41 PM
Cranky old fart
Balr14's Avatar
Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
21,432 Posts
What you have is generic 3 channel toy. They are sold under 100 different names and are not meant to be repaired. There are no aftermarket products or upgrades. You will be lucky to find blades. It's not worth repairing as you can buy a new one for under $20. You might try the coaxial forum. Somebody might be able to help you. Please keep in mind the people with the least money to spend seem to make the worst decisions.
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 08:47 PM
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Philippines, Calabarzon, San Pedro
Joined Jul 2012
4,124 Posts
My first heli was a coaxial, the type that you fly using an iPhone and a dongle you stick into the headphone jack. It's a good way to demonstrate what its like having a spinning top floating above your head as if it was sliding around on ice.

What i quickly learned is that it's only good for introduction, if you're going to get into this hobby seriously, you're supposed to graduate and move from coaxials ASAP. I'm afraid getting another coaxial was a mistake. A four channel fixed pitch heli would have been a better choice.

Get a v911, it's about as durable as your first coaxial, but more controllable and will set you back into the right path. A new set (2 batteries, charger, TX, Heli, spare blades) will set you back about $50.00. And if you manage to break it, you can either buy spare parts for it, or just get a new heli for $20.00.
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 09:40 PM
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United States, KY, Bowling Green
Joined Nov 2012
12 Posts
Umm...okay;
'thanks'...I guess.
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 10:01 PM
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Joined Nov 2012
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Well, guys, thanks for the 'quick' replies...I guess what you're both trying to say, is, frankly, I foolishly bought a real p.o.s.--not once, but twice.

I feel more 'tricked' than anything.

My experience has been limited to less than $100, I had lots of fun, and as for that local 'hobby shop' (not hobby lobby--a small shop locally)--I'll go on believing (as I finally deduced earlier today) that they obviously tricked me into paying $50 (for a demo) for something they had sitting around...uh, I guess to fool people like me.

I was being nice about them; I'd already decided to never go to them again--when I went in to buy this thing, I asked them about parts for it, and they all but promised me they would order me parts at cost if they didn't have them already.

I noticed they were overly concerned with 'presenting' the image of being an all-around hobby shop, when actually almost every ad (and Facebook post, BTW) revolve around their RPG tournaments--4 of 5 of the staff were completely absorbed in a game, and the fanfare around it, both times I went into their shop, and from what I read, the entire basement of their 'new, improved' business (more floor space) was being built into a 'gaming area' for this, as well. To me, it's like watching 'Poker' on ESPN: I don't. While poker may be 'sporting', it's not a sport, in my book; and it's certainly not athletic--not even darts is that. To me, there oughta be an ESPN just for bar games, keeping them separate from the 'real sports'.

(R/C is a real hobby. RPG'ing is more an all-absorbing, unnatural and unhealthy obsession).

The final straw for me, in 'banning' this local shop was listening to them deny over the phone that they'd ever be able to even order these parts, when I needed that canopy.

Again...'frankly', if I hadn't burned the PCB today, I'm pretty sure many of the replacement canopies I see on many R/C heli sites would work just fine on this thing...I wouldn't doubt I could also make a main PCB from a 'real' (not 'toy') heli work with this thing, as well.

What I'd like to know is, if 'Balr14' is right, and it'll be impossible to find parts for this model, then---whether they wanna be a good local supplier, and keep their customers, or not--why/how did this shop have 3 of these tailfin assemblies pegged right there where I could see 'em?

So...I must say, I'm a little disappointed in my responses so far...I was incorrect in my original posted question to say I bought the tailfin assembly AFTERward--I now recall I bought it BEFORE, and inquired about more parts, before putting out the $50 for this 'toy'.

I'll fix it--not defiant or anything--but I guess I really do enjoy having fun with 'em (modding as much as flying them), and I won't let my extremely limited budget stop me on any account.
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 10:47 PM
Cranky old fart
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Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
21,432 Posts
Even if they have replacement parts, it's not a name brand so the hobby shop you bought from is the only one who would know who makes it. There is nobody with any moderate level of experience who would advise you to spend anything repairing a 3 channel coax. They don't teach you anything, the channel assignments are wrong, they have little movement authority and poor reliability. For $50 you could do a lot better.
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Old Nov 05, 2012, 01:51 AM
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Joined Apr 2010
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Some comments might be a little harsh, but they are true.

You asked a few questions -
1 "49MHz, so I'm guessing this thing is basically pretty old, right?"

Not really. 49 mhz was the old frequency for cordless phones and a few real cheap phones still use it. I know you hate this word but "toy-grade" rc stuff still uses 49 mhz and 27 mhz, a lot. Hobby grade rc doesn't use either one - aircraft are 72 mhz or 2.4 ghz

2 under one picture you ask what does this button do? If they work at all they are trim tabs. If the heli is always drifting backwards each time you push the front button it "trims" the heli a little more forward. If it always want to rotate counterclockwise you could use it to add a little clockwise trim until it stops spinning. No - they won't make it go faster. I doubt they're functional, but who knows.

3 "What I'd like to know is, if 'Balr14' is right, and it'll be impossible to find parts for this model, then---whether they wanna be a good local supplier, and keep their customers, or not--why/how did this shop have 3 of these tailfin assemblies pegged right there where I could see 'em?"

A better question might be why stock the tail fin at all? They just don't break that often. Did they have blades and gears and motors? Those are the parts you'll need.

You asked about a button that switches slow to fast. The 3 full channels are used for movement. That half channel is for a basic on/off switch, and you can only have one at the most. If you have a switch to turn the leds off an on, then you can't have slow fast switch too. Otherwise there might be one, but it wouldn't be hidden.

In that picture where you say it's 49mhz, it's real clear that the left stick is throttle only - that control stick won't move left or right. I'm kinda guessing but since it uses a tail rotor to make it go forward and backward, it probably wont go sideways? Does the right control stick make it go forward/backward and rotate or spin in a circle? If yes, that's wrong, and if you plan to get a 4 channel or bigger someday, you don't want it to become a habit. The left stick should be up/down and rudder, or spin in a circle - the right stick should be forward/ backward and move left/right. It will turn into a bad habit that's hard to break, and it'll cause a lot of crashes while you try to learn the right way - every time you want to stop the rotation, you'll just make it move left or right instead, and crash.
I know you don't wanna hear this, but if you plan to get something that's a real entry level rc heli, it's probably not a good idea to repair this one even if you can get parts. It's your money, and you gotta decide, but it may make more sense to save the money you would spend for parts and buy that V911 or something like it instead.
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Old Nov 05, 2012, 08:13 AM
Cranky old fart
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Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
21,432 Posts
The WL Toys V911 is gentle enough to be very good for beginners and is quite durable. The V929 or V949 quad are a bit harder to learn on, but fly circles (also loops and rolls) around a V911 and will teach you a lot. They also can use parts from the Blade MQx which are available at most hobby shops. These micro quads are incredibly durable and will withstand hundreds of crashes.

You would be surprised how many people on tight budgets do the same thing you did. They think they are being frugal buying cheap 2 and 3 channel toys, because buying a real RC heli would cost too much. Most of them give up after wasting a hundred dollars or more and never really getting to see what flying an RC heli is like. All they had to do was ask here first.
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Old Nov 05, 2012, 10:53 AM
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Joined Oct 2012
802 Posts
Your helicopter is a LH 1108 or 1109. This is manufactured by a company called Lihuang Toys. This is their website, and I've seen parts available online.

http://lihuangtoys.en.alibaba.com/

The two buttons marked L and R at the bottom of the right control stick are the trims for yaw (rotation around the vertical axis). The lower button on the side turns the LED lights on and off. The one above it gives faster rates (control sticks become more responsive).

This type is excellent for learning orientation skills and fooling around indoors. If you could fly it, its time to move to a single rotor FP type. Like the other responses, I would suggest either the V911 for $45 or less, available online or MJX-F45 ($90-95). The F45 is much bigger (300 class), and when you fly it after flying a smaller co-axial, is like driving a Mercedes after a Subaru (Subarus are by the way very good cars IMHO, so this is not to disparage them!) It can also take quite a beating!

Good luck, and have fun!
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Old Nov 05, 2012, 11:07 AM
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United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2007
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OK so here's Jazzy with the devil's advocate viewpoint... it's what I do... sometimes

The little toy choppers are good for one thing: FUN! You can learn helicopter basics with them, such as how to control altitude with a throttle stick - something that is harder than it looks. Since the helicopter is very stable, you can take a step by step approach to learning to control helicopters - first you have trouble just keeping from hitting the ceiling, then when you get that, you can experiment with moving the rudder around, etc, etc... giving you a good progression of learning.

SO... they are NOT worthless, they are FUN and EDUCATIONAL. However, they are toys, not hobby quality helicopters. Take that for what it is and have fun!

You sound like a person who is destined to become a tinkerer, and to be totally honest, that's not my favorite kind of person in this hobby. I think tinkering harms learning, and I've written about that extensively. However, I do suggest you get a real hobby-quality chopper - preferably one with not a lot of upgrades available, so you can learn to adjust and maintain an aircraft rather than simply buying new parts for it all the time. That's where I think people get in trouble...

There are a lot of folks out there making crazy "upgrades" to their choppers for no reason at all. They can barely hover and they are turning their helicopters into high performance aerobatic monsters... instead of simply making the regular-performance versions FLY RIGHT! That's what bugs me about the tinkerers - they spend a lot of money on "upgrades" and typically make their aircraft worse, causing crashes and leading to more "upgrades" which make the thing even harder to fly. And, they never get to experience what it's like to fly a normal-performance helicopter that flies correctly.

So, my advice is, have fun with the toy choppers, while accepting that they are toys and don't spend too much money on them. Then, when you're ready, pick up a high quality (but entry-level) RC radio such as the Spektrum DX6i, a good quality simulator such as Phoenix, and a hobby quality trainer helicopter such as the Blade 120SR, and learn to fly... THEN, and only then, you should get a nice aerobatic chopper like a Trex 450 Pro - AFTER you have learned enough skills that you won't crash it in the first ten seconds.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that the toy choppers taught you anything other than the basics I outlined... they will NOT prepare you for a full-house aerobatic helicopter. You need that simulator.
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Old Nov 05, 2012, 12:07 PM
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United States, KY, Bowling Green
Joined Nov 2012
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Karlic,
Nice reply! See guys--this is what I needed to know--and HOW...a little empathy went a LONG way, Larry, in your reply:
I learned stuff, that being:
  • don't throw any money at this thing (already said, but 'nicer', by ya)
  • I think you're saying the newer standard format for control is different from this one, and I'd better switch before spoiling myself on this one
  • about the trim tabs--I'll check it out...and feel a little less bad about opening up that controller to see if they're even wired.
  • about the parts...good point--maybe they scored just enough parts from this 'junk-toy supplier' to make themselves look better about selling them, then just quit
I'm still cornfused about one thing, though: your last points about actual control, and what it does: I'm familiar with pitch, yaw, and roll...keep in mind I'm only vaguely familiar with how REAL helis are SO VERY different from planes (my buddy in HS is now a genu-wine NASA rocket scientist; he taught me this, plus tried to teach me some advanced concepts like 'lift', and even how aelirons affect flight);

BUT I've been overwhelmed by this heli due to it's inherent control issues, and am even wondering if this wasn't the controller made for it?

Your last comment threw me (sorry--really)...where you say "if yes, then that's wrong"? You mean I'd be better off not feeding this thing parts while ignoring newer format controls, kindof, right? It's wrong to keep trying to learn the older controls, when everything 'current' is using an improved control format?

Thanks again for your time and patience with me...the responses (crabby or not) to my very first post (a dumb question, at that) are more than enough to get me asking more dumb questions, and keep my hobby interest in flying helis sparked!

For the record, I really AM saving for a 'quad', but I know better than to think I could afford an 'AR2'...or even one of those around the $150 price range...I'll have to save up for more than a year to get that AR1, even. So--for now, it looks like I'll be 'saving' for a month, for a measly little 'Beetle'--that WlToys V929?

But--with your suggestion mounting up with the 'Cranky old fart' (I didn't say it--you did!)--for me to buy the V911, it'll have to be my 'actual Primer' to real fun...around $50--more justified that this one, for certain.

Thanks, dudes (cranky, and otherwise)...I'll be blogging about my silly 'mods' later tonight, here...on my blog here, of course.

Sadly, I know how I've sounded, but really glad you guys responded so well to help me, in spite of my stubborn ways!
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Old Nov 05, 2012, 12:22 PM
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United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2007
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He's just talking about the control arrangement being different from the typical arrangement we tend to use, and how confusing that could be if you learn that arrangement, and then have to re-learn a different arrangement.

Normally, we have yaw/heading/tail control on the left stick, and we have cyclic control on the right stick. Cyclic control makes the helicopter roll left and right and nick forward and back.

The controls of a helicopter are as follows:
Throttle - on the left stick's vertical axis
Collective Pitch - ALSO on the left stick's vertical axis
Yaw/Tail Rotor/Heading - on the left stick's horizontal axis (also, that stick should turn the NOSE of the aircraft, not the tail - very important when you start flying around)
Cyclic pitch control - on both axes of the right stick

This matches full scale helicopters which typically have rudder pedals, and a single stick with 360-degrees of cyclic control. To the left of the pilot down by your leg is usually the collective/throttle control which consists of a pull-bar for the collective, with a twist grip on it for the throttle.

Here's a link to my blog page (LGT my first helicopter) http://jazzyflight.blogspot.com/2007...elicopter.html (be sure to read the comments at the bottom, very interesting I think)
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Old Nov 05, 2012, 12:33 PM
Registered User
United States, KY, Bowling Green
Joined Nov 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlik View Post
Some comments might be a little harsh, but they are true.

You asked a few questions -
1 "49MHz, so I'm guessing this thing is basically pretty old, right?"

Not really. 49 mhz was the old frequency for cordless phones and a few real cheap phones still use it. I know you hate this word but "toy-grade" rc stuff still uses 49 mhz and 27 mhz, a lot. Hobby grade rc doesn't use either one - aircraft are 72 mhz or 2.4 ghz

2 under one picture you ask what does this button do? If they work at all they are trim tabs. If the heli is always drifting backwards each time you push the front button it "trims" the heli a little more forward. If it always want to rotate counterclockwise you could use it to add a little clockwise trim until it stops spinning. No - they won't make it go faster. I doubt they're functional, but who knows.

3 "What I'd like to know is, if 'Balr14' is right, and it'll be impossible to find parts for this model, then---whether they wanna be a good local supplier, and keep their customers, or not--why/how did this shop have 3 of these tailfin assemblies pegged right there where I could see 'em?"

A better question might be why stock the tail fin at all? They just don't break that often. Did they have blades and gears and motors? Those are the parts you'll need.

You asked about a button that switches slow to fast. The 3 full channels are used for movement. That half channel is for a basic on/off switch, and you can only have one at the most. If you have a switch to turn the leds off an on, then you can't have slow fast switch too. Otherwise there might be one, but it wouldn't be hidden.

In that picture where you say it's 49mhz, it's real clear that the left stick is throttle only - that control stick won't move left or right. I'm kinda guessing but since it uses a tail rotor to make it go forward and backward, it probably wont go sideways? Does the right control stick make it go forward/backward and rotate or spin in a circle? If yes, that's wrong, and if you plan to get a 4 channel or bigger someday, you don't want it to become a habit. The left stick should be up/down and rudder, or spin in a circle - the right stick should be forward/ backward and move left/right. It will turn into a bad habit that's hard to break, and it'll cause a lot of crashes while you try to learn the right way - every time you want to stop the rotation, you'll just make it move left or right instead, and crash.
I know you don't wanna hear this, but if you plan to get something that's a real entry level rc heli, it's probably not a good idea to repair this one even if you can get parts. It's your money, and you gotta decide, but it may make more sense to save the money you would spend for parts and buy that V911 or something like it instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
The WL Toys V911 is gentle enough to be very good for beginners and is quite durable. The V929 or V949 quad are a bit harder to learn on, but fly circles (also loops and rolls) around a V911 and will teach you a lot. They also can use parts from the Blade MQx which are available at most hobby shops. These micro quads are incredibly durable and will withstand hundreds of crashes.

You would be surprised how many people on tight budgets do the same thing you did. They think they are being frugal buying cheap 2 and 3 channel toys, because buying a real RC heli would cost too much. Most of them give up after wasting a hundred dollars or more and never really getting to see what flying an RC heli is like. All they had to do was ask here first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lentar View Post
Your helicopter is a LH 1108 or 1109. This is manufactured by a company called Lihuang Toys. This is their website, and I've seen parts available online.

http://lihuangtoys.en.alibaba.com/

The two buttons marked L and R at the bottom of the right control stick are the trims for yaw (rotation around the vertical axis). The lower button on the side turns the LED lights on and off. The one above it gives faster rates (control sticks become more responsive).

This type is excellent for learning orientation skills and fooling around indoors. If you could fly it, its time to move to a single rotor FP type. Like the other responses, I would suggest either the V911 for $45 or less, available online or MJX-F45 ($90-95). The F45 is much bigger (300 class), and when you fly it after flying a smaller co-axial, is like driving a Mercedes after a Subaru (Subarus are by the way very good cars IMHO, so this is not to disparage them!) It can also take quite a beating!

Good luck, and have fun!
Wow--sorry again, didn't realize until now that hitting 'quote' replied to everyone!

OK, so...Karlic, already told you, thanks!

'Old Fart'--thanks again...gotcha...I appreciate your experience and time (15k posts--wow!)...also, you know they're coming out with a 'DM2', right? Loved the first one.

Lentar--wow, that's the final key to what I need here, you know. Thanks! Fun-fact, I had just found the site to Lihuang Toys accidentally last night when I had to get to bed; thanks for this info, I'll definitely be using it to try and beat their prices (or find specs on what I need to buy it locally--or even make it!). Thanks too for the info on what those trim buttons do...had no idea about the LED switch--like I said, I'm opening that controler up to see if those buttons are even wired...

'Jasmine2501': 'Lead' with the good news from now on! I almost tuned you out, because (while we're sharing) I think you've got me downgraded a little...hrm...best example I can give ya is my website (which only looks this poor because of my carpal surgery this summer, which shut me down for months):
www.pcdr.co (not 'com)

I read the rest and appreciate your 2 cents, too--but can't say I don't wonder if you're already misjudging me here, when you said what I am (tinkerer) is 'not your favorite type of person here'...Please don't respond if you're into that rapid a judgement--I can go to Youtube for that (already did--turned off commenters there, they're still trying!).

But...I'm not letting my 'tinkering' ruin my fun....ohhh, no, not unless you include extending the receiving range of my WiFli around 200% or more, ruining 'fun'...or adding one of those little 'keyfob' spycams to it!

Still--I 'get' ya...don't have 'em 'down' so much I forget to have fun!

Thanks, all...signing out to get some work done; blogging my 'WiFli' mods tonight---already have on my Facebook page, here:
WiFli 'softskids' Mod
WiFli wireless antenna mod
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Old Nov 05, 2012, 12:40 PM
Cranky old fart
Balr14's Avatar
Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
21,432 Posts
It's not just control layout. Those 3 channel coaxes teach you the wrong way to turn and it's a hard habit to break. They are very slow and can't bank, so you turn with just the rudder. With a decent heli or quad, you use all functions to turn because you bank turns.
Balr14 is offline Find More Posts by Balr14
Old Nov 05, 2012, 12:57 PM
FPV Noob KD0VMK
United States, MO, Platte City
Joined Jun 2012
431 Posts
I would just like to second the advice for purchasing a V911 immediately. They're less than $45 shipped from hobbyking (at least they were when I ordered mine). Right out of the box, mine hovered hands free. It was just as easy to fly as a coaxial heli. All the controls are in the "right" place too, so it's a decent stepping stone towards larger helis later. They're also nearly indestructable...mine has survived some unbelievable crashes onto concrete with no side effects yet.

Even after I "moved up" to a 450 sized heli, my V911 still gets about 5x more flight time than the 450. It's fun and can be flown anywhere. highly recommended.
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