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Old Nov 04, 2012, 03:36 PM
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Himax outrunner 3516-0840 dissasembly question

Hi, I have a Brand new himax 3516-0840 motor...after running it for just a second ( testing for correct running direction ) the motor seemed more difficult to turn by hand << like there was goo inside it all the sudden>>

Since this was going in a new build...I decided to open the motor and double check the berrings etc. or se if i could find a reason it felt tighter.

Long story short..all looked fine inside..I used a drop of trinity oil on the berrings...then wiped up any residule oil...put the motor back togeather...it still turned the same << perhaps it just needs to be broke in?>>

After installing it back in the plane I found a RING..about the thickness of a thick Hair...I KNOW it came out of this motor...But I have no clue where.

I will include pics....perhaps someone can tell me where it goes...Im guessing on the shaft at the front??

Anyway if you know << Not guess>> where it goes please help me

Thanks Pat
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 04:31 PM
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Does the ring fit the motor shaft? If so, it probably is a spacer to keep the collar from rubbing against the outer race of the bearing. However because of the shaft orientation, the prop thrust is in a direction to pull the collar away from the stator so it doesn't matter. Some mounting configurations have the shaft extending out of the rotor and the rotor is mounted forward of the stator. In this configuration the collar is resisting prop thrust.
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Ramblin View Post
Does the ring fit the motor shaft? .
It fits the shaft Perfectly....I read what you said...but, where does it go?

Thanks Pat
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 05:31 PM
Jack
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Sometimes a "ring" like that (it would normally be called a thrust washer) is found between the Circlip on the shaft and the inner bearing race where it emerges from the base plate and bearing tube (the non-rotating part of the motor). That is where yours seem to have just a collar collar. Was there no Circlip on the shaft in front of the collar?

The other place where they are found will be on the shaft inside the magnet housing. When they are there, they are trapped between the inner bearing race on the front bearing in the stator and the back side of the end bell or dome on the magnet housing. When they are there they normally act a thin spacer for positioning the magnets over the arms.

On the one that is inside the magnet housing the magnet housing, shaft, thrust washer, and inner bearing race all turn together when the motor runs so there is not any wear on the thrust washer.

I think the photo of the inside of the magnet housing shows some evidence of the thrust washer having been there before doesn't it?

What you call the back of the motor (the non-rotating part) is normally call the base plate and is considered the back of the motor and the bearing there is the back bearing. And the rotating part is normally called the front and the bearing inside the housing is the front bearing.

If you put the shaft in the bearings, will the magnet housing slide freely enough to center itself over the magnets? If so, and if can press it in a little and it rebounds back out, it may have been that the thrust washer was actually a spacer on the inside to keep the shaft from being pressed in, to keep it in position over the magnets.

Jack
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 05:47 PM
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Hi, in photo #9 <bell housing> I just noticed there is a very small flexable nylon type washer....<it had never been removed>

Could my mystery ring slide down the shaft and sit on it???..as the paper thin nylon washer would wear immediately with only the bearring touching it... I think..

But it would work perfect to press the Metal ring against the bearing when motor is assembled...
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 06:12 PM
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Remove the retainer colar and slide the ring back on then slide the retaining colar back on.

As for the motor not spinning freely, was this when connected to an esc? or not?

When connected to the esc this could be the result of some motor braking being active.

If spinning in your hand this could also be the result of the motor wires touching when trying to spin the motor, motor leads touching together on a un-connected motor will be very similar to esc braking and cause the motor to be hard to spin.

PS: Never a good idea to free spin a brushless motor without any load to it.
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 06:21 PM
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Perfect....will put it inbetween the Front bearing and the retaining collar...Thanks

I only ran it via ESC to get the run direction correct litterealy Seconds...switched 2 wires..as it was reversed..then tested for a second again....that was all it was run for....feels like COLD OIL in a car...not magnet cogging..that was the reason I took it apart in the first place....perhaps it just needs to be broke in.
Anyways Thanks for the help AGAIN
Pat
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 07:06 PM
Jack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weed89 View Post
Hi, in photo #9 <bell housing> I just noticed there is a very small flexable nylon type washer....<it had never been removed>

Could my mystery ring slide down the shaft and sit on it???..as the paper thin nylon washer would wear immediately with only the bearring touching it... I think..

But it would work perfect to press the Metal ring against the bearing when motor is assembled...
Yes, it could. It could be there as a precision spacer that adjusts the height of the magnet housing as it rests on the stator.

There is a spot where the magnetic forces in the magnet housing want to locate the housing over the stator arms. And the various spaces and Cirlips and collars and other parts should hold the stator in that position, not above it or below it. And the magnet housing should not float in or out from the desired location, it should be centered and have little or no play either way (a play of 0.001" or 0.002" or so is OK though).

The flexible washer will not wear there because all of those parts are rotating together, they do not rub on each other.

Jack
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 07:18 PM
Jack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weed89 View Post
Perfect....will put it inbetween the Front bearing and the retaining collar...Thanks
That is the back bearing (the one on the fixed end of the motor), you'll get people confused if you keep calling it the front bearing.

Quote:
I only ran it via ESC to get the run direction correct litterealy Seconds...switched 2 wires..as it was reversed..then tested for a second again....that was all it was run for....feels like COLD OIL in a car...not magnet cogging..that was the reason I took it apart in the first place....perhaps it just needs to be broke in.
Anyways Thanks for the help AGAIN
Pat
Brushless motor need no break in, never, none at all.

Cogging has several different feels depending on the state of the motor. With no ESC connections it feels one way, with the ESC connected it feels another way, with the ESC powered up if feels yet another way. But it is always there to some extent.

The light "cold oil" cogging is usually what you feel when the motor is not connected to an ESC. If you hold all three of the connectors together (assuming bare brass bullet connectors) so that they are shorted out on each other, that will the lightest cogging feeling you will feel in all the different conditions. And it will be most evenly spaced too.

Some motors just "cog" harder than others. This is particularly the case for smaller (10 gram or so) motors. On some bigger motors the weight of the prop will let you "spin" the motor a turn or two. But some smaller motors won't let you do that.

If when you have the shaft in both of the bearing races but not all the way down where the magnets are "engaged", if the inner bearing races are turning with the shaft and there is not the slightest roughness or noise at it rotates, your bearings are fine.

Push and pull a little as you test bearings to make sure that their are not any damaged areas that will come into contact only when the prop is pulling or pushing the shaft.

Be careful when you are putting the magnet housing and shaft back in place, if they are allowed to "snap" together from the magnetic forces it can damage the bearings.

Jack
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Old Nov 05, 2012, 01:28 PM
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I received this from HiMax...thought I would share...and thank you all again for the help

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maxx Products

Hi Pat,
The spring washer goes between the collar and the front bearing. When you reinstall the collar it must be press down with finger pressure only to preload the bearings.
See this link to "Tips & Tricks" on our website: http://www.maxxprod.com/mpi/tips1.html

Dean
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