HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by RD6000S View Post
Good question - knowing Traxxas from the car side it would be a total departure for them not to have great parts support for one of their products cloned or not.

So I suspect that they are making the parts, buying Hubsan not sure???
I also know Traxxas fron the RC car side and their parts support and customer service has been excellent..they also seem to encourage the development of aftermarket upgrades.

I'm encouraged.

:harry
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 06:58 PM
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It might have the Traxxas name on it and they might be an American company, but that quad is 100% made in China and I can guess which factory.
If these are to be sold at hobby stores across the U.S. then people will buy them regardless, for the same reason they buy 3ch helis at crazy prices from mall stands etc.
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 07:01 PM
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...................... for the same reason they buy 3ch helis at crazy prices from mall stands etc.
If there's one mission I'd like to accomplish with our new business, it's to expose and eliminate this attrocity.
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by harrye View Post
I also know Traxxas fron the RC car side and their parts support and customer service has been excellent..they also seem to encourage the development of aftermarket upgrades.

I'm encouraged.

:harry
harry, great point about the aftermarket...

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If there's one mission I'd like to accomplish with our new business, it's to expose and eliminate this attrocity.
I concur MassiveOverkill...
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 07:57 PM
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My only real problem here is the fact that I have a DX-7 and can't bind this to it.

As you know it is a pain using kit radios; when I fly I like have my controller in hand...
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 09:17 PM
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The question that remains is this:

Is Traxxas buying Hubsan X4's and rebranding it as their own, or are have they cloned it and producing the parts themselves?

If Traxxas is simply rebranding, then they could be the reason why Hubsan is struggling to keep up with production, and if they're rebranding but not the reason why Hubsan is struggling to keep up with production, then you're going to see OOS at Traxxas just as you would at all the other outfits selling the X4.
Well, as others have said I also know traxxas from the wheeled side of the hobby and I can agree they are great for that. That is the main why this product confuses me so much. My first electric rustler was kind of, at the time, considered a cheap knock off truggy, but I still have it somewhere and I guarantee I charge up a battery and take it to my local skate park and beat the heck out of it with no damage other than the stupid nylon gear stripping (honestly buying them by the dozen was cheaper than buying the metal gear, and if you kept off the throttle while landing jumps and kept that genius slipper clutch kinda loose it wasn't too bad). I've driven a few T and E maxxs as well as the monster truck brother of the rustler (I want to stay Stampede but can't remember for sure).

This is a huge.divergence from their business model, and I can't understand why any American company (yes, they are made in China, like all of everyone's stuff, but still the cost of doing business in America instead of with America is much higher) would ever wish to be in this market. I can buy a quad that flies perfectly fine for $40 at what, for the seller, must he a razor thin profit margin. Traxxas really isn't adding value here since most of these quads, though originally from China, can have parts swapped with quads that an LHS does actually sell. They also probably aren't making much money at this price either, so really at least to me, this doesn't make sense to either traxxas or a consumer.
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 10:02 PM
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I had this really weird feeling about 2 weeks ago that Traxxas would get into the quad market! Spooky. I was going to email them and then just thought it was crazy

I like to think of things like this as "Men's intuition"

I thought it would be more around the 350 - 400 size they'd make though. Good thing they're thinking of multirotors anyway. Let's see what's next!

I can't believe the growth in this segment!!!
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 10:06 PM
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See, a larger size quad for a "cheap" price may help to revolutionize the category.I like the way you dream
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 10:12 PM
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See, a larger size quad for a "cheap" price may help to revolutionize the category.I like the way you dream
Let's all dream 'replaceable receiver' while we're at it!
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 10:19 PM
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Let's all dream 'replaceable receiver' while we're at it!
Well, to fantasize, a larger quad makes that much easier
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 01:01 AM
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also recieved this in my email along with the announcement about the QR-1
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXCZHP&P=7
it is a nano copter made by estes. well the pictures in the email i recieved were doff pics of this same quad and the price is better. it had the same looking tx and same quad with same blue lights. it will be fun to see what pans out with these little guys.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 07:27 AM
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I can't really understand why $40 would mean such a thin profit margin as skitchen8 says. I'd be surprised if the whole thing cost more than $4 to produce in fact once you take away cost of labor, which we all know is nothing over there. Add another $4 for the toy controller and there you go.

Also, 'value' is a somewhat nebulous term. What moves the merch is features, which is why you get today's Taco Bell market model, where the meat doesn't change but now you can hang a camera from your burrito...
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 08:07 AM
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I can't really understand why $40 would mean such a thin profit margin as skitchen8 says. I'd be surprised if the whole thing cost more than $4 to produce in fact once you take away cost of labor, which we all know is nothing over there. Add another $4 for the toy controller and there you go...
Trust me, I'm in no way defending the $60 BNF or $100 RTF price, but shipping adds to most of the cost of these things. You can order these things (most of the micro quads) in bulk for between $22-28 per piece directly from the manufacturer. I'm not afraid to disclose this, you can go on Alibaba and get a quote.

You then have to add in shipping, taxes, escrow fees, etc. which adds about another 6-15 bucks per unit depending on how large of an order you make, so now you're up to $28-$43 with those costs. PayPal, Ebay, and Amazon have to get their 3-15% cut.

$40 from a US warehouse, there really is no profit, unless you're using free shipping to ship individual units, one by one to a US warehouse via courrier.

I really wish Hubsan could increase their production and address the flaws in their design (no prop guards) as we would love to stock the X4. We can address the flaws ourselves, but not their production issues.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 08:50 AM
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I can't really understand why $40 would mean such a thin profit margin as skitchen8 says. I'd be surprised if the whole thing cost more than $4 to produce in fact once you take away cost of labor, which we all know is nothing over there. Add another $4 for the toy controller and there you go.

Also, 'value' is a somewhat nebulous term. What moves the merch is features, which is why you get today's Taco Bell market model, where the meat doesn't change but now you can hang a camera from your burrito...
Well labor, as you say, is pretty cheap in China, but it is not free. Also don't forget you're not normally ordering from the manufacturer. If, as massiveoverkill stated, you buy in bulk you're likely buying from a distributor who bought from the manufacturer, both of whom make a small profit on it. If you're buying one unit you are probably adding in a third guy making profit (ie: order from massiveoverkill's shop he needs to put food on the table too). All of those stops also incur shipping charges while moving it from one place to the other, whether being shipped commercially or a dude in a pickup truck it costs real money to move anything anywhere. Then the trip from China to the US/UK/wherever incurs a much higher cost (those planes take jet fuel, have paid pilots, ground crew, etc). Just in that alone $40 is practically a miracle, but that isn't counting manufacturing costs at all.

Maybe building the quad costs $4, but you're leaving out expenses there. These are assembled on some sort of jig, those cost money to make initially. The vacuum forming machine that makes the plastic inside the box costs money, the plastic to make that out of costs money. The cardboard costs money, the tools to cut that cardboard into a box shape costs money. The printer to put those graphics on the box costs money, as does the ink.

Now that you can package a product you still need the product itself. The mold for the center frame, motor mounts and props. The plastic for them. The cost of making the PCB, drilling it, silk screening it, acquiring components, and the solder that holds it together.

These are all very small costs, and some of them pretty much a one time cost (until it needs replacing), but they do add up.

Also, the market can tell you a lot. The fact that a new toy quad pops up every 5 seconds means there is a ton of competition, and with such a young market not really any customer loyalty so as soon as your competitor starts selling a clone of your product for $5 less you lose all your sales. I haven't seen them really go below $35 RTF which leads me to believe that is about as low as they can go and have everyone still get their small cut of the profit. There can't be a whole lot of room left after subtracting all of those things out.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 09:17 AM
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I see; in fact I just sent a painting to a client in Japan recently and it cost me $130 for what is a flat panel 17" x 17"- I still can't believe it. It was Air Freight, but I get your point.

I'm in the US so when you get situated please let me know how to reach your site and I'll check you guys first for my 'multirotor needs'!

DS13
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