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Old Nov 14, 2012, 11:28 PM
BahamaHeli
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The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
3,713 Posts
Have you tried moveing the links in one hole on the servo arms? That might give you a better setup. I swaped my v400 swash for a blade 450 swash because the stock swash would pop apart in a crash. You could pop it back together, but never realy trusted it after that. Especialy doing 3D type flight. I also thought about putting a dfc head on my v400, but the stock head seems to be stronger than the older align heads, and i might have to shorten the main shaft and drill a new hole. I dont have the tools or the time for that.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 12:38 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Originally Posted by RodneyJ View Post
Those are nice birds, integrity.

It's Trex all the way. All my birds except for the V450, are Trex clones. You get what you can and besides, I'm an old timer and this is a new hobby(heli's) for me. I'm used to building it freeflights. Starting the motor, lighting the fuse, start the timer, then you let it go! And pray, I DID light that fuse? I DID start that timer.... Didn't I?

I didn't want to get too involved with this hobby of helicopters before finding whether or not I was going to like it. That was a stupid thought, I'm hooked, lined, and still sinking.

Here's a pic of the rest of my birds. Sorry, no pic log of the builds. Two other 450's are in the junk pile. Setup crashes. I'm not even going to state what my first heli was, too embarressing, but it flew and got me hooked!

The MD500 is mostly parts from HobbyKing and yes, the 5 blade rotor head is a trex compat, but till I get a flybarless system, that switch over is on hold.
Keep-RC carbon frame
Turnigy 3700kv
Detrum 40amp ESC
3-TGY 90s cyclic servo's
TGY 9018MG tail sevo (for size constraints)
WK-G011 gyro (The only gyro I could find that worked well with the Devo 10)
RX802


My other birds? Except for the V450, they are what I call my e-bay birds where I order, I wait. I order, I wait.


4oz fishing weight to counterbalance the tail Don't laugh, it works.
I left out the windows at the top of the fuse to allow for more air flow inside, and to allow access to the mounting screws at the back of the frame for easy removal should something fail. I did think about the heat. I'm also looking into lighting, for more realism.


And your right, that just may have been a blessing in disguise when that RX2702V-D crapped out when it did(5 minutes after adding battery), but an awfully expensive one to say the least.
You know, now if you remove that 4 oz weight you can use a much bigger battery right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
Have you tried moveing the links in one hole on the servo arms? That might give you a better setup. I swaped my v400 swash for a blade 450 swash because the stock swash would pop apart in a crash. You could pop it back together, but never realy trusted it after that. Especialy doing 3D type flight. I also thought about putting a dfc head on my v400, but the stock head seems to be stronger than the older align heads, and i might have to shorten the main shaft and drill a new hole. I dont have the tools or the time for that.
Yeah, i don't want to have to reset up the mixing and all the mechanical gains just because i bought a new swash though. THAT is annoying as hell. And i do curse Walkera for it. I simply want a standard model that i can buy parts for and they will always be the same or at least will always work the same. I can expect the Align DFC rotor head parts to be around forever, basically. The V450 rotor head is the same as the V400 but they use a different swash i think? The V450 swash poped apart a few times on me in a crash. I just pressed it back together with a vise and flew it for many flights after with tick tocks and everything. My last crash was because a ball link stripped out, not because the swash separated in flight. I used to like when the swash would separate in a crash because it often saved my servos or something like that. As long as it was not too easy to press back together i never worried. Keeping in mind that it can probably be pressed till the metal is almost touching in the gap between the pieces.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 12:55 AM
BahamaHeli
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The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
3,713 Posts
If the v450 swash is like the align 450 swash (with guide/elev link in the back) then get an align swash and do one more re-set. Then stick with align swash for replacements.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 02:35 AM
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Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
If the v450 swash is like the align 450 swash (with guide/elev link in the back) then get an align swash and do one more re-set. Then stick with align swash for replacements.
That's what i'm thinking. Since i'm using Align/Savox servos i should be able to get some Align servo horn balls and ball linkages and everything should just be uniform at that point. I may have to play with linkage geometry some but otherwise i think thats my plan. Although, i would much rather just keep buying the same part i have been for the last 5 months or whatever.

Since Walkera turned the "New" rotor head blade grips to plastic and the "new" swash is also half plastic instead of it all being CNC and brass like it used to be. The price of the "new" parts is basically the same as the Align DFC and swash cost now. It's amazing they lower the quality and get away with a price hike.

The "new" swash is now $29.90. - While the Align DFC swash is only $27.99.

The "New" Rotor head is $49.00, if you can even find one ANYWHERE! It's not easy! - While the Align DFC rotor head is $49.99.


They have some nerve if you ask me. To sell a plastic "downgraded" rotor head and swash for the same amount as these quality CNC parts. Just because Align sells their rotor head for 49.00 doesn't mean that just because Walkera makes any old rotor head they can sell it for the same amount!!! They should be called out on this behavior on every turn! Especially when people are going around saying that Walkera is cheap and so better to start with. More and more, this is not the case. Your paying the same for an Align but you get what you pay for. Walkera is not giving what you pay for so much these days.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 02:52 AM
BahamaHeli
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The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
3,713 Posts
My V400's were cheap. The parts have always been expensive. Align cnc parts are expensive as well. I use tarot for alot of cnc parts, like heads, swash, grips. The tarot plastic parts are way cheap and of reasonable quality. They have even started updateing the design of certain parts, like the cf skids and cf tail case. Alzrc has also come out with the 'devil' frame and fuse like canopy. Looks like a goblin. Ugly to me, but to each his own.

Alot of companies are going back to plastics parts. I guess they found a better mix that holds up better. The plastic will flex where the cnc would bend, and depending in the quality of the aluminium, sometimes break.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
My V400's were cheap. The parts have always been expensive. Align cnc parts are expensive as well. I use tarot for alot of cnc parts, like heads, swash, grips. The tarot plastic parts are way cheap and of reasonable quality. They have even started updateing the design of certain parts, like the cf skids and cf tail case. Alzrc has also come out with the 'devil' frame and fuse like canopy. Looks like a goblin. Ugly to me, but to each his own.

Alot of companies are going back to plastics parts. I guess they found a better mix that holds up better. The plastic will flex where the cnc would bend, and depending in the quality of the aluminium, sometimes break.
I really doubt the plastic blade grips on the 450 rotor head will hold up in a crash. But it might. I just don't think it will. If it does not break the linkages will strip out of it or something. Since Walkera does not sell them on their own. You have to buy the whole rotor anyway. So, Align wins out again because they sell all the rotor parts separately. But, like i said. Right now it's very hard to find the "New" V450D01 or parts for it. The V450D03 is looking like it's going to get pushed harder with it's 49g heavier plastic airframe with bunches of plastic parts. I'm okay as long as i have options. But Walkera is giving me less and less options as i go. Tarot is shaping up to be a great company and doing things the opposite of WK. I think they have a new version DFC head coming out or something too. Plus they have thrust bearings in their tail grips. Things are looking good with this brand.

I think WK should try to be a little more specialized and stick with micros or something. At least until they get better at gyro programming and can either make better servos or are ready to use someone else's servos like Align and almost everyone else does.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 05:54 AM
Hong Kong
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Mikado Logos actually have a near all plastic construction like the V450D03. If anything, it is Mikado that is leading the way on this. The difference is that their heli are lighter than equivalent in their class. This allow the use of a considerably lower head speed that makes 3D flying smoother. However, the plastic frame is known to disintegrate completely on hard crashes.

The V450D03 does come with metal geared servos but they will still strip and burn in hard crashes. This is my experience with the Align DS410M servos as well. I think the main reason why the V450D03 is cheaper is that the receiver appears to be customized rather than a standalone receiver like the previous 2702V. What this means is that it has far fewer adjustment options, including the ability to adjust the direction in which the gyro compensate. This will will it much harder to use in third party helis. My guess is that the receiver will sell for $50 to $70 rather than the over $120 price tag for the 2702V.

Anyway, this is going to be very interesting. All indications are that it is going to be a massive launch. The professionals who have flown it are definitely very impressed with it so far. Of course, it will be a long time before all the potential problems are known.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 07:41 PM
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Australia, VIC, Melbourne
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Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
Mikado Logos actually have a near all plastic construction like the V450D03.
Its not just plastic, it is CF reinforced. A proper engineering polymer composite that is about as far from Walkera plastic as their Al is from aerospace grade.

Probably double the strength of WK stuff.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 08:02 PM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
Mikado Logos actually have a near all plastic construction like the V450D03. If anything, it is Mikado that is leading the way on this. The difference is that their heli are lighter than equivalent in their class. This allow the use of a considerably lower head speed that makes 3D flying smoother. However, the plastic frame is known to disintegrate completely on hard crashes.

The V450D03 does come with metal geared servos but they will still strip and burn in hard crashes. This is my experience with the Align DS410M servos as well. I think the main reason why the V450D03 is cheaper is that the receiver appears to be customized rather than a standalone receiver like the previous 2702V. What this means is that it has far fewer adjustment options, including the ability to adjust the direction in which the gyro compensate. This will will it much harder to use in third party helis. My guess is that the receiver will sell for $50 to $70 rather than the over $120 price tag for the 2702V.

Anyway, this is going to be very interesting. All indications are that it is going to be a massive launch. The professionals who have flown it are definitely very impressed with it so far. Of course, it will be a long time before all the potential problems are known.
There is no way in hell Walkera is using carbon polymer or crystalline polymers like Delrin. That is why the frame is so heavy. I'm still waiting to see the V450D03 hit Wowhobbies or someone. I want to see what the US distributed price will be. $200 is not so bad. I suppose. But we'll see. Walkera seems to like to competitively price. Even if they are only in the competition in their own minds. Thinking they actually make the same quality items or something. If we go around comparing this thing to a Mikado they might exhibit more hubris in their pricing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by desertstalker View Post
Its not just plastic, it is CF reinforced. A proper engineering polymer composite that is about as far from Walkera plastic as their Al is from aerospace grade.

Probably double the strength of WK stuff.
I have no experience with their materials. But if they are using a carbon based plastic or reinforced plastic. I'm sure it's more than double the cheap basic polymer that Walkera uses. Lets not forget their track record with plastic parts like gears and skids. Their recent endeavors (Master CP) have been much better but they still have not exhibited quality polymers. I doubt it's anything like a Mikado if they use carbon in their polymer. Don't forget that Carbon is what makes steel harder, you bones, everything basically. So having a carbon based plastic should be very hard and durable if they can keep it from becoming brittle. This takes lots of work, research and engineering. It's basically the same as being CF. In fact the normal "Carbon fiber" we all are familiar with is actually called CFRP or CRP for Carbon-fiber-reinforced polymer. The polymer part is usually an epoxy or some type of nylon or vinyl. So even that is not 100% carbon fiber.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-...forced_polymer
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 08:38 PM
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reliable micro?

I read through this thread and I am more confused than before... Even though I know there is NO simple answer, here my question. I want to buy a heli such as the MiniPC and a slightly larger one for a little bit more outdoorsy stuff such as the V120D02S. But they are Walkeras... What other, better, helis are there in this size that are reliable and do not require these extensive mods? I do not intend 3D flying by the way, just realistic flying around... Have a lot of experience on v911 and sim. But not an unlimited budget.... but if repairs and upgrades cost just as much and one should rather invest in a better product, which one is there? By the way, I am in Australia and have to envy you people over in the states for the cheap shipping from WOW etc. To even mail a MiniCP from WOW to OZ costs over 60 US in freight!
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 08:45 PM
Hong Kong
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The weight of the Master CP is 420g vs 340g for the V200D03. This explains why the Master CP behaves like a flying elephant at times. It drops very fast when you flip it over and is often difficult to stabilize into a hovering position. However, it is very stable once it is in over. The skids are so thick that they are almost impossible to break. I have had a few hard crashes with it. The V450D03 seems to be only a bit heavier than the V450D01. So this suggests that another type of plastic may be used altogether as Tony at Xheli claimed. Tony has tested the Master CP as well and so he should know whether the same plastic was used.

Another thing about the Master CP is that there seems to be a complete absence of mechanical problems. If the servos prove to be just below average, then replacing the receiver will still give you good value.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by torsten01 View Post
I read through this thread and I am more confused than before... Even though I know there is NO simple answer, here my question. I want to buy a heli such as the MiniPC and a slightly larger one for a little bit more outdoorsy stuff such as the V120D02S. But they are Walkeras... What other, better, helis are there in this size that are reliable and do not require these extensive mods? I do not intend 3D flying by the way, just realistic flying around... Have a lot of experience on v911 and sim. But not an unlimited budget.... but if repairs and upgrades cost just as much and one should rather invest in a better product, which one is there? By the way, I am in Australia and have to envy you people over in the states for the cheap shipping from WOW etc. To even mail a MiniCP from WOW to OZ costs over 60 US in freight!
The V120D02S is definitely the most reliable and problem free in its class. In fact, many would consider it to the best Walkera heli ever made. It is definitely selling better here now than the Mini CP. I have flown more than 1000 flights with it and used it the learn 3D. The only equivalent is the Blade 130D which is much more maintenance intensive and had random QC problems. If you want to go a larger size, I would either recommend the Master CP or the Blade 300X with a much higher performance and price tag. But the Walkera helis are designed more so for beginners.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by desertstalker View Post
Its not just plastic, it is CF reinforced. A proper engineering polymer composite that is about as far from Walkera plastic as their Al is from aerospace grade.

Probably double the strength of WK stuff.
True is this.

What's even more good news is that the frames are cheap as chips should they ever need replacing.

4 crashes with my Micky 400 and the frames are untouched.

It's another product I did extensive research on before spending my hard earned s.

Worth 5 times the price IMO; http://www.fast-lad.co.uk/store/prod...oducts_id=5415
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by desertstalker View Post
Its not just plastic, it is CF reinforced. A proper engineering polymer composite that is about as far from Walkera plastic as their Al is from aerospace grade.

Probably double the strength of WK stuff.
Whatever is used in the Logo, do not assume that it is necessarily extremely expensive. Luxury brands make massive markups on their products. There are certainly quite a few Logo fliers here who are not entirely happy with it, especially after their 600 frame got smashed into pieces. But they appreciate the weight that is save and the effect it has on the flight performance.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 04:29 PM
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United States, WA, Pasco
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
You know, now if you remove that 4 oz weight you can use a much bigger battery right?
LOL... If there was an emoticon that was kicking it' self, I'd be using it about now. I honestly hadn't given that a thought with all that room and all, now that you mention it. That is definately something to check into.
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