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Old Nov 15, 2012, 07:53 PM
No thrust...It'll bust...
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Troy, NH
Joined Sep 2006
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QUESTION: Have you seen or heard of this?

When I spool up and try to move the throttle up a notch above 10% so that it can idle, I get this surge where it shuts itself down and I have to retry spooling up past 10%. This happens with every new battery and takes 3+ tries to get the motors just to idle. This surging isn't a very pleasant thing to experience!

These ESC's seem to like the idle setting set to high as that's the only setting that spools up all 6 motors at once. I've tried adjusting my throttle EPA in both directions and yes I've set the throttle range before I built this hex.

Any words of wisdom?

-Tim
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 03:56 AM
Begin with end in mind...
power's Avatar
Eagle Lake, Minnesota
Joined Apr 2003
5,580 Posts
I am confused on the surging you speak of .

As far as the motor idle speed goes, I had to set my rapid drive 25's to high for all of my AXI motors to fire at once.I would have to jack the throttle to get them to fire before I changed this. Some motors/ESC's require the higher setting to get all the motors to pop. They are still armed and can be started by quickly jabbing the throttle but they wont fire at arming at the same time on low idle. I tried recalibrating several times and no go. It's just the way it is.

Did you see this with the Avrotos?

Does your surging you speak of come when you are trying to get the motors to start??

Mike
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Last edited by power; Nov 16, 2012 at 04:11 AM.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 01:03 PM
No thrust...It'll bust...
troynh's Avatar
Troy, NH
Joined Sep 2006
4,312 Posts
Mike,

I'm on the high setting for motor idle. Rapid Drives...

I don't remember this happening to the Avroto's because I was using the Proton's http://www.hobbypartz.com/07e04-proton-30a.html These armed at the "Recommended" motor idle speed.

The surging doesn't happen when you first start the motors. Only when you try to advance past 10% in the first 3 seconds.

I've tried:
  • Adjusting all of the gains.
  • Adjusting Idle settings
  • Double checking that the red wires are disconnected from the ESC's
  • Changing batteries
  • Adjusting the throttle EPA's

The only thing I haven't tried is re-calibrating the sticks within the GUI.

I'll try to post a video later. My last resort is to switch back to the Proton's
I can't believe that I'm the only one experiencing this!

BTW, I can still fly the hex perfectly, it's just this idle surging hiccup that's really bugging me. (Why do I have a feeling that these SimonK's aren't all that they're cracked up to be?)
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 02:07 PM
Begin with end in mind...
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Eagle Lake, Minnesota
Joined Apr 2003
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I haven't heard of anyone talking about the surging There are hundreds of the SimonK flashed ESC's of different modles and makes flying with fantastic results. This is just one of the brands that has worked for me. Not the 35's of course but the 25's. I just got mine today so I will get them connected and see what happens with mine...

Mike
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 03:13 PM
Begin with end in mind...
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Eagle Lake, Minnesota
Joined Apr 2003
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Something is not making sense here... Tim, did this happen from the very first flight with the new hex or did it just start? You didn't mention anything about it on the maiden with the cobras installed. Did you swap esc's??

I should have mine spinning in a few hours, I will report back.

Mike
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 03:22 PM
No thrust...It'll bust...
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Troy, NH
Joined Sep 2006
4,312 Posts
Keep me posted Mike. Yes, it did start happening when I switched over to the SimonK's. I just didn't mention it. I was living with it thinking I could go back and tweak something. Well, I've tweaked everything I can think of and nothing seems to be taming that surge.

Here's a video of the surge in action: (Watch the whole thing for the full effect.)

Idle surging with the Rapid Drive SimonK esc's - Naza M GPS (3 min 27 sec)
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 06:18 PM
No thrust...It'll bust...
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Troy, NH
Joined Sep 2006
4,312 Posts
Mike,

I have to clarify the timeline of what's happened so far.
  1. Built the first Naza using the Protons & these Cobra motors on my Salad Bowl Quad. No surging issues. Just getting used to the Naza programming
  2. Built the second quad using the protons and Avroto's Solid as a rock
  3. Built the heavy hex using the SimonK's and Avroto's. Solid as a rock. Just heavy.
  4. Built the lighter hex using the SimonK's and Cobra's This is where I start seeing the surging. However, solid as a rock in the air!.
I'm leaning towards a motor/ESC combo mismatch or something like that. I bet you that your set up will run smooth....
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 09:46 AM
Begin with end in mind...
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Eagle Lake, Minnesota
Joined Apr 2003
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Tim, I just put two packs through my setup. Here are the details....

Avrotos's
Rapid drive esc's

I did everything I could to try and get the surge/erratic behavior that you are seeing. Thottle is a smooth transition from arming to lift off.

I now have my gains cranked up to 250 on Basic and it is rock solid! No little wobble that the Castles had. I know I can go higher and I will after my packs charge. I can really here the speed of the Rapid Drives in the heavy wind making corrections, the Castles were not this responsive. The 35's seem every bit as good as my 25's. So far I am happy I spent the money, the hex is flying like I want it to.

I do think there is some issue going on with your motors or a connection somewhere causing the surge. This may also have an effect on why it went a bit flippy when you had your gains at 230. I am still seeing stability increases at 250so I am going to keep going up until I see oscillations or no positive effect.


Mike
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 12:32 PM
No thrust...It'll bust...
troynh's Avatar
Troy, NH
Joined Sep 2006
4,312 Posts
Thanks Mike. I knew you wouldn't see the surging. Congrats! As I mentioned last night, these Cobras have been around the block more than once. So, I'm going to say it's a motor issue.

Can you post a quick vid of your hex in action? Rocking test? Can you feel the difference a quality hex can offer now? Or do you think you'll still prefer the quad?

I'm going back to the Avroto's with a completely different frame arrangement. I'll have it completed by the end of the week and will post pics along the way.

Tim
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 12:47 PM
Begin with end in mind...
power's Avatar
Eagle Lake, Minnesota
Joined Apr 2003
5,580 Posts
I am not completely sure on the hex vs quad thing yet. I do like the "feel" of the hex but I need more flight time to be fair. It is crazy windy out but I am going to give it a shot later. I will try and get some windy hex footage

My mind kind of went to Y6 for a minute today but I need to keep focused on this one for a while. One thing I do like is that this thing is HUGE in the air compared to my quad. I like this as my eyes are starting to act their age


Mike
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 01:00 PM
No thrust...It'll bust...
troynh's Avatar
Troy, NH
Joined Sep 2006
4,312 Posts
Lol! I know what you mean about the eyes.

Just ordered a pile of 11x4.7 SF's....
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 05:28 PM
Begin with end in mind...
power's Avatar
Eagle Lake, Minnesota
Joined Apr 2003
5,580 Posts
Ok...The hex is a keeper! Now that I have a pile of packs through it I can honestly say I like it better than the quad. It is super solid.It's like flying a Rolls Royce in comparison.

I have a video brewing of a quick test flight in the wind. I am impressed with how it handles. The wind was blowing 15+ nothing to gage how windy it is but you can hear it on the clip. At times the GPS just holds at an angle. Cool stuff.


Mike
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 05:39 PM
No thrust...It'll bust...
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Troy, NH
Joined Sep 2006
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Awesome!
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 06:06 AM
Registered User
United States, MI, Haslett
Joined Mar 2010
325 Posts
avrotos

Could you please tell me what prop brand and size works best with the avroto 2814 motors. I am thinking of modifying my quad to lift more weight. Is this a better option than just getting an octocopter with cheap 12$ motors . Also there is the option to mount additional motors upside down on the quad and make it an octo. What do you think is the best option. In other words are these 50$ avroto motors really worth it compared to other options.

Thanks
Larry
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 06:18 AM
Begin with end in mind...
power's Avatar
Eagle Lake, Minnesota
Joined Apr 2003
5,580 Posts
Hi Larry, the Avrotos really like the APC 11-4.7SF on 4s. I was flying this quad for a while and it is a workhorse! I could haul my NEX-5n with the heavier Sigma 19mm lens and downlink around for around 8 min on a 4s 3700 pack.

The Avrotos are light years better quality than the $12 garbage. Don't listen to those that say otherwise. The quality is over double. I am an AXI user and it takes a lot to pull me away from purchasing AXI. The Avrotos have won my trust. I have had them apart for inspection and I like what I see. If you are going to haul a camera of any value use the Avrotos. As far as lift goes you will have plenty

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by lklansingkiter View Post
Could you please tell me what prop brand and size works best with the avroto 2814 motors. I am thinking of modifying my quad to lift more weight. Is this a better option than just getting an octocopter with cheap 12$ motors . Also there is the option to mount additional motors upside down on the quad and make it an octo. What do you think is the best option. In other words are these 50$ avroto motors really worth it compared to other options.

Thanks
Larry
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