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Old Oct 28, 2012, 09:38 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
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Eflite UMX Sbach 3D on 3s - 2300Kv/5043 vs. 2500Kv/5030

Here's some 3s testing I did today with the Eflite UMX Sbach 3D. Sbach #1 is running the 2300Kv motor/GWS 5043 prop combo, while Sbach #2 is running the 2500Kv/GWS 5030 prop combo. Both have a 1mm rod under the horizontal stab to prevent high-speed aerodynamic flutter. I used a Hyperion 180 mAh 25c 3s Babbelbatt on both flights. It appears that I got the stab halves reasonably straight on S3D #1, as it flew about the same as it did before the aerodynamic flutter incident.

This thing really moves on 3s! Thanks to AS3X, the plane remains smooth & precise - even @ WOT. The 2300Kv/5043 combo is the faster of the two by a considerable margin. I noticed a bit of gain-induced elevator oscillation during the first two WOT passes with the 2300/5043, but it appeared to smooth-out after that. I could hold either plane @ WOT for as long as I wished without hitting OTP. But it was only 44 F during the flights. When flying in warmer wx, I may need to improve the cooling like some have had to do.

Eflite UMX Sbach 3D on 3s (10 min 34 sec)


EDIT 12/05/12:

Here's some static RPM data on 3s.

Interestingly, there is little difference in static thrust between the two combos, however the 2300/5043 combo's pitch-speed is nearly 20% higher. It's also interesting that the 2500/5030 actually outperforms the 2300/5043 in terms of thrust, considering that the 2300/5043 produces more thrust on 2s than the 2500 with either prop.

RPM taken under natural light with a calibrated optical tach, 30 sec into each run on a freshly-charged pack:

Sbach 3D on 3s
Pack: Hyp 180 25c 3s
Elevation: 910 ft AMSL
Temp: 70 F

Motor/prop ---- RPM -- Thrust (g)* -- Speed (MPH)**

2300Kv/5043 - 10,700 ---- 159 ------------ 43.6
2500Kv/5030 - 12,870 ---- 164 ------------ 36.6

For reference, here's my stock Sbach data:

Sbach 3D
Motor: Stock
Elevation: 910 ft AMSL
Temp: 70 F

------------- Hyp 240 - TP 325 65c - Hyp 500 35c - Thrust (g)* ---- Speed (MPH)**

Stock prop - 10,550 ---- 10,770 -------- 11,100 ----- 99/103/110 --- 27.5/28/28.9
GWS 5030 - 11,010 ---- 11,160 -------- 11,340 --- 118/121/125 -- 31.3/31.7/32.2
GWS 5043 -- 8,910 ------ 9,040 --------- 9,210 ---- 108/112/116 -- 36.2/36.8/37.5

*Calculated using the GWS prop spreadsheet
**Calculated pitch-speed. Prop slippage and in-flight unloading not taken into account.

Also, I solved the high speed tail oscillation problem on 3s. Here's the test-flight. WOT laps at 2:00:

Eflite UMX Sbach 3D on 3s! (5 min 23 sec)


DISCLAIMER: UMX PLANES ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR 3s. TRY AT YOUR OWN RISK!

Joel
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Last edited by turboparker; Dec 05, 2012 at 11:04 AM. Reason: Added 3s static test data & video
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Old May 08, 2013, 11:40 PM
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How does the speedy go with the 11.1 volts? I use in my Sbach a Mini Aviation 300ma battery which gives me about 8 minutes of flight.
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Old May 09, 2013, 11:03 AM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
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It's very fast on 3s. Especially with the 2300Kv motor & 5043 prop. Check out my videos.

Joel
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Old Aug 16, 2013, 01:39 PM
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I assume that the AS3X board can handle the extra voltage?
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Old Aug 22, 2013, 08:56 AM
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Waytooslow,

The 2s UMX planes are not designed for 3s. Try at your own risk. That said - most of the 2s AS3X bricks will handle 3s if you use the appropriate motor/prop combos - aside from possible OTP issues that can usually be solved by improving cooling. But the bricks rarely get damaged from 3s operation. See the Beast/Beast 3D & Sbach/Sbach 3D threads for more info & 3s reports.

Joel
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Old Jan 07, 2014, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
...

Sbach 3D on 3s
Pack: Hyp 180 25c 3s
Elevation: 910 ft AMSL
Temp: 70 F

Motor/prop ---- RPM -- Thrust (g)* -- Speed (MPH)**

2300Kv/5043 - 10,700 ---- 159 ------------ 43.6
2500Kv/5030 - 12,870 ---- 164 ------------ 36.6
...
Joel
What do you think of the 2300Kv on 3s with the 5.75 X 2.5 prop ?
Or even the 5.75 with a 1/8'th inch diced off both ends ?
Would that be more thrust , less speed ?

Bille
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Old Jan 07, 2014, 02:52 PM
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Bille,

The E-flite 5" x 2.75" prop is less efficient than the GWS 5030 or 5043. You'll get more bottom-end grunt and longer flight-times with the 5030. Regarding the Yak prop - it's the clear winner for best low-end performance on 2s with either the 2300Kv or 3000Kv motor. However, it is too much load on 3s. You could cut it down, but doing so will eliminate its advantage over the others (the larger thrust-disk is why it is so efficient & has so much low-end grunt). Might as well go with the 5030 at that point. The Gee Bee's 5.25" x 3.5" prop is a horrible match for the UMX airframes & motors. The Gee Bee is considerably faster, has much better vertical, draws a lot less current, and flies a lot longer with the 5030. The only UMX-sized 2-blade E-flite prop I haven't tried yet is the Hyper Taxi's 5.5" x 2" prop. That might be a good choice on the 2300Kv for low-end grunt in a 3s app. Might be too much load for the 2500 & 3000Kv motors on 3s, though.

We've learned over the years that it's pretty tough to beat the efficiency & performance of the GWS 5030 & 5043 props on the UMX planes. The Yak is the first UM to come with a well-matched prop, but it's only a good match for slower airframes. For instance - the Yak prop is just about perfect on a 2300Kv-equipped CC, but it would be a poor match for the Sbach on 2s, even with a 3000Kv motor. The 3000Kv/5030 or 2300Kv/5043 combos provide much better overall performance on 2s in that airframe.

Joel
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Old Mar 28, 2014, 12:32 PM
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Dang Joel that's one quick S-Bach. You should dial back the AS3X a bit so it doesn't flutter at speed.
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Old Mar 28, 2014, 03:01 PM
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ValiantGLX,

Thanks! Yeah, she can outrun the stock UMG MIG 15 and Habu.

BTW - that wasn't gain-induced oscillation. It was due to slop in the pushrod holes and flexing of the stab. Note that the oscillation is gone in the second clip. Once I added a cf strip to the horizontal stab and made 'ca bearings' to remove the slop in the linkage, the oscillation disappeared.

Have you seen my Beast 3D on 3s? Not quite as fast as the 3Sbach, but it hovers at 1/3 throttle, and laughs at 25+ MPH winds.

Here's a clip of me surfing in a gusty 26 MPH wind on 3s: Eflite UMX Beast 3D on 3s - in a 26 MPH wind! Stationary KE, elevator landings, etc

3s fun on a relatively calm day. It can climb straight up on 3s faster than a stock Beast 3D can go in a vertical dive @ WOT: Having fun at the field with the Beast 3D on 3s

Joel
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Old Mar 28, 2014, 10:51 PM
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Incredible, the knife edge into touch-and-go just before the 3min mark in the windy vid was pretty epic.
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Old Sep 02, 2014, 11:38 PM
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I see you need my umx as3x beast to play with!! It has some flights on it, but I need the funds for a umxCC.
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Old Sep 03, 2014, 12:27 AM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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Sorry Gabe - I'm out of Beast spots in the hangar. I already have a pair of 2300Kv/5043-equipped Beast 3Ds, a well-worn V1, and a new-in-box V1 that I've kept since Bryan's crash.

If you were flying a recip instead of that turboprop, you could probably lean 'er out a tiny bit & save enough Avgas in a few days of spraying to pay for the CC. But then if you were flying a recip, you'd be pouring most of your money into the fuel tank & engine overhauls, so you wouldn't have enough left over for RC anyway.

Did I mention that you really, really need a CC? Didn't think so.

Joel
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Last edited by turboparker; Sep 03, 2014 at 12:36 AM.
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