HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Oct 27, 2012, 07:12 PM
a wing is enough
Tail Saw's Avatar
Germany
Joined Aug 2010
97 Posts
Discussion
Dynamic Soaring with a Horten possible?

Servus,

since a few years concerns me the question if dynamic soaring is possible with a Horten-wing. First I needed a model that is strong enough for the attempts. With my Aris Mini I was hoping to have a good design for for the planned tests, but the construction was so bad, that I was worried about the ability to fly
At last the bad plane flies and with small Flaplets it was possible to do some first tests for the distant goal

Here's the video at 2 Bft:
Soft-DS mit Horten Aris-Mini (2 min 27 sec)


Since this video, I'm waiting for more wind from the right direction.
The fastest speed in the video is about 70 km / h, what do you think is the maximum DS-speed with a wooden Horten-plane with carbon spars?

Continues.......

Regards,

Uwe.
Tail Saw is offline Find More Posts by Tail Saw
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Oct 28, 2012, 05:55 PM
I don't like your altitude
Stupot46's Avatar
Joined Sep 2011
3,276 Posts
Thats a baaad plane!!!!!
Whats the plan,keep increasing speed until it folds?
Seriously,do you have a build log link?
Regards Stuart
Stupot46 is offline Find More Posts by Stupot46
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 02:27 AM
the answer 42 is
Switzerland, AG, Lenzburg
Joined Jan 2006
1,890 Posts
HEy Uwe, nice place, do you have more details?' pics?? plans?? looks great in the air

Regards

EZ
Edwinzea is offline Find More Posts by Edwinzea
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 06:40 PM
a wing is enough
Tail Saw's Avatar
Germany
Joined Aug 2010
97 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupot46 View Post
Whats the plan,keep increasing speed until it folds?
No, I think the first problem with too fast speed is flutter of a flap, and that flutter will decrease the speed. I had a fraction of a second flutter at a flap at the day of virgin flight. The height from the bungee was considerably lower, but no damage to the plane.

This ist the video of the first flights with bungee:
Horten Aris Mini, Erstflugtag (3 min 16 sec)


For more informations please wait till i had better conditions

Regards,

Uwe
Tail Saw is offline Find More Posts by Tail Saw
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 31, 2012, 02:56 AM
I don't like your altitude
Stupot46's Avatar
Joined Sep 2011
3,276 Posts
Uwe,not enough resolution on iPad to detect any flutter,but I enjoyed the video nonetheless.
Have you made any modifications since this flight?
Regards Stuart
Stupot46 is offline Find More Posts by Stupot46
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 01, 2012, 05:50 AM
a wing is enough
Tail Saw's Avatar
Germany
Joined Aug 2010
97 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupot46 View Post
Uwe,not enough resolution on iPad to detect any flutter,but I enjoyed the video nonetheless.
Have you made any modifications since this flight?
Hi Stuart,

I had no flutter in this video, flutter was at an other flight without camera.

I'm still waiting for good conditions for DS

Here were the right conditions for one day, but because of a meeting the wrong place for DS.......much fun at the front side .......but with a stubid pilot error at the end of the video



Modifications since maiden: little higher Flaplets and CG a little bit back

Halbhorten "Aris-Mini" Hangflug bei 4-5 Bft (1 min 26 sec)


Regards,

Uwe.
Tail Saw is offline Find More Posts by Tail Saw
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 01, 2012, 06:33 PM
Registered User
Zurich
Joined Apr 2006
3,587 Posts
another way to eat the sky

Note that the Möve [click on thumbnail photo below] basically IS a Nurflügel .... but his wings have a different shape, incl. conical camber to utilize spanwise flow for both control AND stability in a much more aerodynamically efficient way that is actually OPPOSITE to the Horten, B-2, etc. It is VORTEX control !

If you could do that with a model the same size as yours it would fly a lot faster with more control and automatically head into green air [lift]. I know this for a FACT and after I discovered it have used this principle in a simple way in some of the mass-mkt toys I created.

Lee


[NOTE: this of course also works as a pure Nürflugel, but I cannot post that unproduced version]


R/C Pterosaur (1 min 6 sec)





TRU Pterodactyl (0 min 22 sec)
xlcrlee is offline Find More Posts by xlcrlee
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 02, 2012, 12:49 AM
I don't like your altitude
Stupot46's Avatar
Joined Sep 2011
3,276 Posts
Uwe,probably an iPad thing but I couldn't play the video.
Not to much damage I trust.
Regards Stuart.
Stupot46 is offline Find More Posts by Stupot46
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 02, 2012, 02:40 PM
a wing is enough
Tail Saw's Avatar
Germany
Joined Aug 2010
97 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupot46 View Post
Not to much damage I trust.
Hi Stuart, the only demage was to my ego

I'm still waiting for good conditions for DS

....but today it was a little bit faster at 2-3 Bft

Horten-Winter-DS bei 2-3 Bft mit Aris-Mini (1 min 41 sec)


Regards,

Uwe.
Tail Saw is offline Find More Posts by Tail Saw
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 02, 2012, 03:12 PM
Herk
HerkS's Avatar
Virginia USA
Joined Jun 2007
1,645 Posts
There are some close up pictures of Uwe's model here

http://www.thermik-board.de/viewtopi...t=227&start=50

Very unusual - fins on the elevons.
HerkS is online now Find More Posts by HerkS
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 02, 2012, 04:11 PM
a wing is enough
Tail Saw's Avatar
Germany
Joined Aug 2010
97 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by HerkS View Post
Very unusual - fins on the elevons.
Peter Wick named it "Flaplets"

The Aris-Mini is a nearly usual Horten with bell shaped lift distribution.
It flies with high measure of stability without winglets and with a little bit lower measure of stability with the Flaplets.
The side-surface of the Flaplets is mainly against the turbulence when slope soaring and DS.
The profiles from Peter Wick and Michael Selig are modified and adapted to the installation situation. The plane also flies well with 3 linear twisted trapezoids, ideal for foam building.

Regards,

Uwe.
Tail Saw is offline Find More Posts by Tail Saw
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 02, 2012, 04:22 PM
I don't like your altitude
Stupot46's Avatar
Joined Sep 2011
3,276 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by HerkS View Post
There are some close up pictures of Uwe's model here

http://www.thermik-board.de/viewtopi...t=227&start=50

Very unusual - fins on the elevons.
Herks,thanks for the link.

Uwe,nice flying,love the roll!What your estimate of the speed?
Any chance you could give a brief outline of the thinking behind the tips.
Regards Stuart
Stupot46 is offline Find More Posts by Stupot46
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2012, 05:47 PM
a wing is enough
Tail Saw's Avatar
Germany
Joined Aug 2010
97 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupot46 View Post
nice flying,love the roll!What your estimate of the speed?
Hi Stuart, I have some more rolls for you, but I have a problem: I´m too slow at elevator:

Horten-DS bei 4 Bft mit Einschlag (0 min 58 sec)


I appreciate the fastes speed in the video was ~ 100 km/h / 60 mph, at this day perhaps ~120 km/h / 75 mph

I think the Aris-Mini will have 2 followers:
- I have foam cores for a new 2 m- plane, made by Norbert and I like to build a new glider out of the cores
- I develop a new 2,8 m-version for slope and DS for variable construction

I think I have shown that DS with a Horten-type flying wing is possible, now it is time for the next steps in Horten development, whatever that will be

Regards,

Uwe
Tail Saw is offline Find More Posts by Tail Saw
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:56 AM
Registered User
ohmite's Avatar
Eden NY
Joined Sep 2001
540 Posts
Uwe,
Ouch!
Definitely answered your own question about DS, yes you can. Great speed. Looking forward to the follow-on planes.
Regards,
-Eric
ohmite is offline Find More Posts by ohmite
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 21, 2012, 05:01 AM
I don't like your altitude
Stupot46's Avatar
Joined Sep 2011
3,276 Posts
Ouch indeed! Touch of cold hands?

Stuart
Stupot46 is offline Find More Posts by Stupot46
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Alert New dynamic soaring speed record!! Tappet Sailplane Talk 4 Mar 08, 2012 11:17 AM
Dynamic soaring with foamies Vector Foamies (Kits) 16 Mar 09, 2010 08:31 PM
Idea Urban dynamic soaring..... Possible? Magnum9 Australia 13 Oct 11, 2006 07:55 PM
Dynamic soaring with foamies Vector Electric Sailplanes 1 Feb 02, 2002 01:08 PM