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Old Nov 07, 2012, 06:03 AM
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Jockadopolus's Avatar
Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e_lm_70 View Post
It is looking a scratch build ...not a "product" ... quite a difference "to me" ...




ps: I did missed out that this was your scratch build design ! ... So congratulations for your self made autogyro ... I see you did used the Cierva rotor head .. that now is not anymore available ...
This was availiable for some time but not in the UK
http://www.helioldie.de/tragschrauber.htm
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 06:08 AM
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Peterborough
Joined Feb 2009
159 Posts
Hi Guys,

I ordered mine on Oct 29. Apparently it was picked on Nov 2, and it has arrived in one piece today Nov 7 here in the UK.

Looks incredibly easy to put together, might finally get some of the artf mob down at out field interested enough to have a go with an autogyro. I cannot see it taking more than 30 mins to be ready.

I hope to maiden mine on Sunday. I'll let you know how it goes.

Cheers

Ian
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 06:18 AM
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Austria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockadopolus View Post
This was availiable for some time but not in the UK
http://www.helioldie.de/tragschrauber.htm


Ok ... you are good on history and find special stuffs ... this is a 2004 model (or even older) ... a model from Japan review by some german

....

Anyhow ... from wikipedia:

Quote:
Flight controls

There are three primary flight controls: control stick, rudder pedals, and throttle. The control stick is termed cyclic and tilts the rotor in the desired direction to provide pitch and roll control. The rudder pedals provide yaw control, and the throttle controls engine power.

Secondary flight controls include the rotor transmission clutch, also known as a pre-rotator, which when engaged drives the rotor to start it spinning before takeoff, and collective pitch to reduce blade pitch before driving the rotor. Collective pitch controls are not usually fitted to autogyros, but can be found on the Air & Space 18A and McCulloch J-2 and the Westermayr Tragschrauber and are capable of near VTOL performance. Unlike a helicopter, autogyros without collective pitch need a runway to takeoff; however they are capable of landing with a very short or zero ground roll.
By nature ... autogyro are supposed to have 2 axis control on the rotor head ... even some pitch control and pre-rotation in some advanced model.

No mention about using the tail elevator as control

So ... for me a pure autogyro is with 2 axis rotor head ... but ... hey ... this is a "cheap" PNF model ... so ... I'm fine with the Durafly designer decision ... just .. I would like to mod it

Tchuss

e_lm_70

ps: I was looking if any commercial 1:1 scale autogyro has tail elevator control ... but it is looking I can't find any ...
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 06:37 AM
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ps: I was looking if any commercial 1:1 scale autogyro has tail elevator control ... but it is looking I can't find any ... [/QUOTE]

Roto-Pup LW-2: Controlled by elevator, rudder and laterally tilting rotor head.

http://aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/little_wing.php
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 06:42 AM
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Austria
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Originally Posted by Jockadopolus View Post
Quote:
ps: I was looking if any commercial 1:1 scale autogyro has tail elevator control ... but it is looking I can't find any ...
Roto-Pup LW-2: Controlled by elevator, rudder and laterally tilting rotor head.

http://aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/little_wing.php


Respect ... you are a master on find something old and very rare ...

This is a 1994 model

Ok .. personally I like these Magni autogyro .. the same that I have also seen in real life

http://www.magnigyro.it/italiano/scout.htm

All of them , on the tail the only movable control surface is the rudder
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 06:48 AM
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Italy, Lombardy, Griante
Joined Oct 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockadopolus View Post
Anyhow ... in theory it is even possible to fly with an autogyro with a fix rotor head ... in practice, I have seen even micro model (scratch build) that fly in this way ... anyhow ... a part from this model ... I still have to see another autogyro with only 1 free axis rotation on the rotor head ...


Another Autogyro with only roll on the head and elevator for pitch

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1650676
The Igor Bensen's design nowdays is winner, because it's simpler to do pitch-tilt rotor in a little, homebuildt recreational gyro.

BUT single, as well as zero degree rotors were used in the past, when gyrocopter were nor little nor recreational: some example,,,








About my Cierva 30, yes, flies well, but it's too heavy to be confortable, and two axis rotor is scale wise but a bit imprecise, better just one axis, IMHO

,
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 08:25 AM
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United States, UT, Marysvale
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There are some model Autogyros with out any controls at all, other than little trim here and there..... "Free Flight Autogyros". Seems there were plenty of them quite successful over the years. Funny, they were still called Autogyros too. Here's a link to some along with a few helicopters all FF.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...light=autogyro

Now back to the Auto-G.....
~Fred
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 10:07 AM
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Rome,Ciampino
Joined Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e_lm_70 View Post


Ok ... you are good on history and find special stuffs ... this is a 2004 model (or even older) ... a model from Japan review by some german

....

Anyhow ... from wikipedia:



By nature ... autogyro are supposed to have 2 axis control on the rotor head ... even some pitch control and pre-rotation in some advanced model.

No mention about using the tail elevator as control

So ... for me a pure autogyro is with 2 axis rotor head ... but ... hey ... this is a "cheap" PNF model ... so ... I'm fine with the Durafly designer decision ... just .. I would like to mod it

Tchuss

e_lm_70

ps: I was looking if any commercial 1:1 scale autogyro has tail elevator control ... but it is looking I can't find any ...
Have you ever read about autogyros?! There are some good books that could open your mind.
Any autogyro CAN have the rotor in 3 config at least.

Earlier gyros had a fixed configuration rotor, in example you can look at the pca2 that is a famous one. It needed of flying surfaces to be controlled on its axis. With the growing of technology and know-how, builders were able to build semirigid rotors. Theese one were articulated only on roll sense. This way the could make a gyro lighter and more efficent due to minor resistance and wheight...wings were no more needed.
Than full articolated rotor have appeared...
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 10:11 AM
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Italy, Lombardy, Griante
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrated View Post
There are some model Autogyros with out any controls at all, other than little trim here and there..... "Free Flight Autogyros". Seems there were plenty of them quite successful over the years. Funny, they were still called Autogyros too. Here's a link to some along with a few helicopters all FF.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...light=autogyro

Now back to the Auto-G.....
~Fred
My father in the sixties buildt a very, very nice Cierva 30 all balsa, free flight, powered with .049 cox babe bee

very difficult to set up, but really a unique ship
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 10:18 AM
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Italy, Lombardy, Griante
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrated View Post
There are some model Autogyros with out any controls at all, other than little trim here and there..... "Free Flight Autogyros". Seems there were plenty of them quite successful over the years. Funny, they were still called Autogyros too. Here's a link to some along with a few helicopters all FF.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...light=autogyro

Now back to the Auto-G.....
~Fred
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_lm_70 View Post


Ok ... you are good on history and find special stuffs ... this is a 2004 model (or even older) ... a model from Japan review by some german

....

Anyhow ... from wikipedia:



By nature ... autogyro are supposed to have 2 axis control on the rotor head ... even some pitch control and pre-rotation in some advanced model.

No mention about using the tail elevator as control

So ... for me a pure autogyro is with 2 axis rotor head ... but ... hey ... this is a "cheap" PNF model ... so ... I'm fine with the Durafly designer decision ... just .. I would like to mod it

Tchuss

e_lm_70

ps: I was looking if any commercial 1:1 scale autogyro has tail elevator control ... but it is looking I can't find any ...

two axis rotor in common, because is simple and cheap, but it's NOT the best, as you can read here, the best is elevator control: more accurate, and more safe than simply rotor tilting.

http://www.emeraldinsight.com/journa...6159&show=html

A
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 10:33 AM
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Italy, Lombardy, Griante
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e_lm_70 View Post
ps: I was looking if any commercial 1:1 scale autogyro has tail elevator control ... but it is looking I can't find any ...
look here:

http://www.littlewingautogyro.com/specs.html

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Old Nov 07, 2012, 10:52 AM
4.2V of pure Kraut power
bzfrank's Avatar
Germany
Joined Nov 2006
458 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_lm_70 View Post
I see you did used the Cierva rotor head .. that now is not anymore available ...
Ask Tian Sheng <autogyro@126.com> directly. I bought my Cooler from him and also a Luobo-15 that still waits in the basement. A colleague also purchased the head separately. They come in different sizes.

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Old Nov 07, 2012, 11:02 AM
H-King, DuraFly, Turnigy
Joined Mar 2008
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Originally Posted by will3d4food View Post
The Head was designed to be kept simple and light, reducing your risk of damage during a low-speed tip-over. We fine-tuned the rotor disc angle and blade angle for a wide variety of flying style's, especially low speed handling.

Words of Wisdom for Beginners: Point the nose up into the wind to get some head-speed before takeoff and then fly it like a Bixler.
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_lm_70 View Post
From the first unboxing ... it is looking like there is already 1 spare included in the box .. is this correct ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bzfrank View Post
Ask Tian Sheng <autogyro@126.com> directly. I bought my Cooler from him and also a Luobo-15 that still waits in the basement. A colleague also purchased the head separately. They come in different sizes.

That setup look's complicated and easy to break.
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 11:14 AM
4.2V of pure Kraut power
bzfrank's Avatar
Germany
Joined Nov 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will3d4food View Post
That setup look's complicated and easy to break.
Nope, its in fact very sturdy and handles even bad days well. Trust me, I know...
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 11:28 AM
H-King, DuraFly, Turnigy
Joined Mar 2008
144 Posts
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Originally Posted by bzfrank View Post
Nope, its in fact very sturdy and handles even bad days well. Trust me, I know...
LOL that's funny.

In the initial test phases we we're experimenting with the folding blades but decided it was best to keep them fix so hand start-ups would'nt convolute the blade's.
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