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Old Oct 25, 2012, 06:04 AM
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Alpina Magic

Hello everybody,
I need your opinion about Alpina Magic.
A friend of mine is offering me an old Multiplex Alpina magic kit ( the one wiht removable wing tips 3.80 -> 4.40 , no flaps , airbrakes)

Of course if I will take this model, I will place servos in the wings and not in the fuselage. The airfoils is a (not better specified) “Ritz modified”

Question:
- First do you suggest me to take this kit or continue to search for a new Alpina 3001 or 4001 ( with new airfoils, flaps )?
- Do you think it is a good idea to add flaps on this wing( I would prefer them in place of airbrakes/spoiler). Is the Modified Ritz a n airfoil that accept the flaps?
- I understood that the original bellcrank in the tail that operates the elevator has been known to fail, does anybody have experience on this?

Thanks for your suggestion
Enzo
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 06:47 AM
Late for work again!
Gary Binnie's Avatar
Northampton, England
Joined May 2004
1,900 Posts
I say go for it Enzo!!

The Alpina Magic was/is a very popular glider.

The instructions are still available to download from Multiplex.

I have the ASW22 from the same period, the wings are the same apart from the extended tips I believe. It does have fuselage airbrake and aileron servos but the system works well, the wing mounted aileron servo option is shown in the Alpina Magic instructions.

The wings would come with the slots cut for airbrakes, I would use those instead of flaps personally. I have a big glider with flaps only and I don't get on with it.

I don't know about tail bellcrank failures, as the kit would be around 25 or 30 years old the plastic might be brittle, it could be used as a pattern to make a new one if you were not happy with it.

Cheers

Gary
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 07:15 AM
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Hi Gary,
thank you for your answer!
Actually it seem to be a good opportunity, I've benn searching an Alpina for a while, but it is not easy to find out one quite cheap.

I was wondering about flaps beacuse I was intereseted to modify airfoil during flight, to adapt to thermal condition and to have a lower stall speed ( not too much space in landings in our slope )
I never had a 4meter glider before so I was guessing if it can be critical during approach/landing.

I know that new alpina have an RG15 modified airfoil , I used to have an ASK21 in the past with an ritz airfoil ( don't remember exactly which one) and it was quite critical during low speed manouvers ,flaps should be useful for this purpose?

I think I will call my friend saying that I will take it

Thansk for yoru feedback.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 07:22 AM
Deniable plausibility
Shedofdread's Avatar
Derbyshire, UK
Joined Aug 2008
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No, you're right - they're hard to find cheap so I say 'go for it'! You're a lucky chap
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 07:25 AM
Late for work again!
Gary Binnie's Avatar
Northampton, England
Joined May 2004
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I would have one as well if I could find an unbuilt kit (at the right price!!).

The Ritz airfoil is undercambered (so it has some 'positive flap' already), the ASW22 pretty much flies at one speed (slow!) and is very graceful in the air. Slope landings are no problem, most of the time I land too short.

I have some wing loading figures for it somewhere, I know it is much heavier than Multiplex suggest it should be but it's fine.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Binnie View Post
I would have one as well if I could find an unbuilt kit (at the right price!!).
By the way, considering that we didn't have still spoken about money, what do you think should be a good price ( in euro)?

Good for me of course

I think you have convinced me: no flaps, I will keep the brakes. Maybe installing servo in the wings to be more precise in the regulation ant to have more standard configuration.

Thank you.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 08:07 AM
Late for work again!
Gary Binnie's Avatar
Northampton, England
Joined May 2004
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Have 'PM'd you.

Price is subjective, if your friend is a good one it will be the right price!!

Good luck, if you get the kit I'm sure we would all like to see photos of the contents and maybe a build thread.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 08:37 AM
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For sure I will keep you posted.
Hope to bring this kit at home soon.

Thanks for yoru feedback.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 12:31 PM
Less Whinning, More Flying
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SF Bay Area, USA
Joined Feb 2003
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I agreed with Gary Binnie's comments. I built and flew an Alpina Magic about 15 or so years ago. I have very fond memories of that plane. If you do buy it, build it stock. I never felt a need for flaps. I used to land it on some tight slopes just using the spoilers. I've not heard of the bellcrank failing on this plane either.

You'll have plenty of fun with this plane.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 01:42 PM
Life-abstract=conformity
S.F. Bay Area
Joined Aug 2002
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Nice to see an Alpina Magic thread again.
Enzo, I don't have the experience to back up my thoughts but it appears to me that airbrakes can only help you land while flaps can assist with the flight characteristics overall (reflex & camber).And that might be more important.
In all the arguments/discussions I've read about flaps vs. airbrakes (spoilers) I can conclude it's more a matter of pilot preference than aircraft necessity with our models.
Still,I believe if the Magic 'needed' flaps,MPX would have provided for them.
And why modify a proven aircraft? The Magic typically won't be flown on the slope, ripping turns F3J (?) style (bank & yank).
Then again, a little reflex can sure get you away from sinking air in good time.
I don't recall any talk about a bellcrank failure with the Magic but whenever I get to building mine I'll be using a modern composite setup for sure.Or at least some strategic reinforcment w/carbon and or kevlar.
Looking forward to your build.
Skies
Jay.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 02:07 PM
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Ireland, County Kerry, Kerry
Joined Dec 2005
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Whoo hoo!

An Alina Magic thread !

I fly one a lot as a regular plane on the slope. My thoughts:

Flaps would help for crow braking: there are times when the wind is light that I find the landing speed a bit high with just spoilers. When there's more wind to blow the plane back, then it;s fine. But, on the other hand, I crash my planes A LOT, and I've never crashed the Alpina on landing with spoilers only.

Adding flaps would be for crow braking purposes only: this airfoil will not respond to camber change! So, is it worth all the work? Probably not.

The bellcrank IS suspect, and has been known to fail in flight! Swap it out for one made out of G10 (fibreglass board)!

Most people who have experience of the old Alpinas vs. the new 4001 series say they much preferred the old one...

I thought the plane was for thermal / light wind flying only, so that's what I kept it for until I spoke to some people who remember flying them in all conditions. So I started doing that, and it really comes alive in strong stuff! It's not the world's easiest plane to do aerobatics with (rolls are very tricky), but I saw that as a challenge and it has consequently improved my skills in that area a lot! See the result:

Alpina Magic in Ireland (2 min 58 sec)


Chris
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 02:10 PM
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Ireland, County Kerry, Kerry
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See how I did the bellcrank replacement here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1239100

Chris
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 02:54 PM
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Hi everybody,
is a great pleasure to read your feedback. It `s nice to discover people that loves these glider..Actually tangent made some model that still surives in the years!!
( there are some people here in italy that believe that if a glider is not full carbon..it will never fly... )

Yes actually I was thinking to flaps in order to perform crow braking and to have possibility to change the camber in case of necessity,based on slope condition, but as mentioned by few of you Ritz airfoil will not respond good to this modification. Spoiler will be enough ( I hope ) to stop the aircraft during landing.
From your feedback, should not be so complicated.

I read about bellcrank failure in some old topics her ein rc groups ( year 2007 or something like that) I will try to find it out again.

Thanks again for your feedback

Enzo - Italy
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodstock 1 View Post
An Alina Magic thread !

I fly one a lot as a regular plane on the slope. My thoughts:

Flaps would help for crow braking: there are times when the wind is light that I find the landing speed a bit high with just spoilers. When there's more wind to blow the plane back, then it;s fine. But, on the other hand, I crash my planes A LOT, and I've never crashed the Alpina on landing with spoilers only.

Adding flaps would be for crow braking purposes only: this airfoil will not respond to camber change! So, is it worth all the work? Probably not.

The bellcrank IS suspect, and has been known to fail in flight! Swap it out for one made out of G10 (fibreglass board)!

Most people who have experience of the old Alpinas vs. the new 4001 series say they much preferred the old one...

I thought the plane was for thermal / light wind flying only, so that's what I kept it for until I spoke to some people who remember flying them in all conditions. So I started doing that, and it really comes alive in strong stuff! It's not the world's easiest plane to do aerobatics with (rolls are very tricky), but I saw that as a challenge and it has consequently improved my skills in that area a lot! See the result:

https://vimeo.com/46177437

Chris
Hello Chris,
thanks a lot for your precious feedback and my congratulation for the video.Very Nice!!! Good skill for the pilot , nice model and I have to say: very nice slope scenario!
AS suggested by you, I think I will keep sopiler and will not add flap. I wiat to get it and i will check bellcrack general condition.
If I will got it ( after I saw the video , now I know that I MUST have it ), I will post some picture .

Thank you
Bye
enzo
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 08:09 AM
Phil.T-tailer
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Devon, UK
Joined Jun 2003
4,239 Posts
Hi Enzo - Older Alpinas are really nice planes - just go for it !

I have an original Alpina (from before the "magic" - same wing without extensions, slightly different fuselage shape) - and it flies just fine without flaps, lands ok with the spoilers.

Mine was "well-used" & needed some fixing-up - yes, the tail bellcrank was broken, so check that - I made one up from circuit-board glassfibre. I put servos in the wings for ailerons & spoilers - Hitec HS85mg

video of maiden flight:
Tina the Alpina (4 min 3 sec)


Phil.
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