SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Mar 02, 2013, 12:36 AM
BahamaHeli
kdean's Avatar
The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
3,655 Posts
Its been overcast all day today with light showwers from time to time. I hope it gets better tomorrow. Im charging up my packs now, i never made it to the field to maiden the 600esp. I decided to take a nap instead. I'll head out early tomorrow and stop at the field before going to the event.

I was finishing up the setup of the 600cf (12s/beastX) and a servo died on me. My finger tips are numb from adjusting links, and just before i get to leveling the swash and setting the pitch, the pitch servo stops responding. I tried moving it by hand and it started to glow like a light bulb at the back. I quickly unpluged the rx pack before any more damage was done. These servos have had 93 flights w/ 3 crashes so they have had a good run, but im now looking for a upgrade set for this heli. I dont really trust the other cyclic servos now that one has burnt out. I would hate for the next one to burn out in flight.

Anyway, im gunna hit the classifieds for a bit. Have a good weekend guys...
kdean is offline Find More Posts by kdean
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Mar 02, 2013, 01:13 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
6,867 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
Its been overcast all day today with light showwers from time to time. I hope it gets better tomorrow. Im charging up my packs now, i never made it to the field to maiden the 600esp. I decided to take a nap instead. I'll head out early tomorrow and stop at the field before going to the event.

I was finishing up the setup of the 600cf (12s/beastX) and a servo died on me. My finger tips are numb from adjusting links, and just before i get to leveling the swash and setting the pitch, the pitch servo stops responding. I tried moving it by hand and it started to glow like a light bulb at the back. I quickly unpluged the rx pack before any more damage was done. These servos have had 93 flights w/ 3 crashes so they have had a good run, but im now looking for a upgrade set for this heli. I dont really trust the other cyclic servos now that one has burnt out. I would hate for the next one to burn out in flight.

Anyway, im gunna hit the classifieds for a bit. Have a good weekend guys...
I would have to agree. I bought two Savox tail servos for my 450 around the same time. One for each 450. Both of them got used lots, but one of them definitely got used lots more, especially recently. About 2-3 days ago i was flying my main 450 when the tail started kicking out while doing consecutive rolls. I didn't crash but when i got on the landing pad and was checking the servo movement. It stopped moving in one direction. I moved it manually and it moved again but then locked up again. When i took the linkages off and tried to move the servo by it's self. It moved fairly freely in one direction but was very tight in the other. My guess is that the motor is shot or something since it came out of no where while flying. So i took the tail servo off my now completely servoless 450 and it moved smooth in both directions. It seems to be functioning correctly until i start doing consecutive rolls or flips or some kind of hard pitching. I thought maybe it was the mechanics or something. It might have had a bending rocker arm bracket, that actually did break off right after. But after replacing it, it still flies the same. It will also sometimes take a second to kick over in one direction, but then will piro freely. My theory is that both servos i bought around the same time have expired some how.

Besides that, it's best practice to replace all the servos at once. Speeds and torque could be affected by wear and tear, giving your servos uneven throws.
IntegrityHndywrk is online now Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 02, 2013, 09:37 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
6,867 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
Its been overcast all day today with light showwers from time to time. I hope it gets better tomorrow. Im charging up my packs now, i never made it to the field to maiden the 600esp. I decided to take a nap instead. I'll head out early tomorrow and stop at the field before going to the event.

I was finishing up the setup of the 600cf (12s/beastX) and a servo died on me. My finger tips are numb from adjusting links, and just before i get to leveling the swash and setting the pitch, the pitch servo stops responding. I tried moving it by hand and it started to glow like a light bulb at the back. I quickly unpluged the rx pack before any more damage was done. These servos have had 93 flights w/ 3 crashes so they have had a good run, but im now looking for a upgrade set for this heli. I dont really trust the other cyclic servos now that one has burnt out. I would hate for the next one to burn out in flight.

Anyway, im gunna hit the classifieds for a bit. Have a good weekend guys...
Early this morning they released a "Lake Wind Advisory", Then a "freeze watch", and now a "Red Flag warning". The Lake wind are warnings indicating gusting winds over 30 mph and steady winds over 20-25 mph. Then because of the dry air and high wind, there is a high fire "red flag" in effect. Lovely... It's coming your way Kdean. Hope it's nice for your event! I'm sure your already out there test flying though
IntegrityHndywrk is online now Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 02, 2013, 03:10 PM
Moving Parts
ChopperJack's Avatar
United States, MS, Columbus
Joined May 2011
1,374 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopperJack View Post
EDIT: I should have read through all the links first. I have read/skimmed through most of this and think maybe I have a much better understanding of what is going on with brushless motors and brushless ESC's. Here is the one post which makes the most sense to me as to what is going on with the battery lead length.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=10
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First, allow me to thank you for your "bed side manner" and your nice compliment and taking the time to write a reply for us all. You could have taken one look at my picture and said, "NEVER USE AN EXTENSION WIRE!" and that's all. I've had some of our friends do that kind of thing which usually gets interpreted as a challenge and often results in a war. Thank you for that.

Also, thank you for the very useful information. You had to go to some personal effort to dig all this up and it is much appreciated by one and all I am sure.

And last, thank you for taking the time to offer suggestions. I've been an engineering technician for many years shall we say. I have probably forgotten as much as I now know. It is nice to have someone to help me (and the rest of us) out with astute and pertinent observations!

Here is my interpretation of what they are trying to tell us. And I did note the caution in the installation manual on page 17, "NOTE: When installing the speed controller, please keep it a distance at least 1 CM from the receiver to avoid any interference."

Anyway, my interpretation. EDIT: doesn't really matter, read the links above and learn a lot about brushless ESC unless you already know a lot. I thought I knew something but found out I had a lot to add to what I already knew.
Greetings IntegrityHndywrk and all, I have had some second thouts about this subject, read, and learned something. I suppose that is something else I like about this hobby and the folks on this thread, I am encouraged to read, experiment, learn a few things, and share with others (even thought some of what I share should have been checked at the door -lol).

I never did really like the wire gague I used on that jumper so will probably go back and double the gague to reduce any possible voltage drop. I will also twist the wires to increase common mode rejection and help filter out noise. I will also try to add a 220 uf capacitor. I'll probably have to keep the connectors though.
ChopperJack is online now Find More Posts by ChopperJack
RCG Plus Member
Old Mar 02, 2013, 04:03 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
6,867 Posts



Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopperJack View Post
Greetings IntegrityHndywrk and all, I have had some second thouts about this subject, read, and learned something. I suppose that is something else I like about this hobby and the folks on this thread, I am encouraged to read, experiment, learn a few things, and share with others (even thought some of what I share should have been checked at the door -lol).

I never did really like the wire gague I used on that jumper so will probably go back and double the gague to reduce any possible voltage drop. I will also twist the wires to increase common mode rejection and help filter out noise. I will also try to add a 220 uf capacitor. I'll probably have to keep the connectors though.
I dropped a capacitor off my ESC once, eventually both came off. It's hard to get in there and solder those little pins sometimes with the big cap in the way. So i used some short length of jumper wire. It should be close as possible, but i think this should be fine too. Right now, not pictured, i have 3 220uF caps on this esc i think. Because the original two were 330uF or something like that. So i installed 3 220uF caps to replace them. Only one is shown on here.

IntegrityHndywrk is online now Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 02, 2013, 08:55 PM
BahamaHeli
kdean's Avatar
The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
3,655 Posts
Here is a pic from today. We had to move the event indoors, so i did not get to fly. Once again it was overcast and rainy but the wind is not that bad. It is cold though, for the bahamas at least.
Name: image.jpg
Views: 48
Size: 233.4 KB
Description:
kdean is offline Find More Posts by kdean
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 02, 2013, 10:05 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
6,867 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
Here is a pic from today. We had to move the event indoors, so i did not get to fly. Once again it was overcast and rainy but the wind is not that bad. It is cold though, for the bahamas at least.
Attachment 5581013
What do you teach? Are you a public school teacher?

After i eventually get AMA and join my local field's club. I kind of want to host events. Being an ex-rave DJ, music producer and party promoter. I have the resources at my disposal to supply good music, PA speakers for announcements and music as well as possibly get a photographer out there from one of my Wedding DJ contacts. The club it's self does a picnic twice a year and provides food and things. I am kind of thinking that i would target the middle and high school students in an attempt to grow interest in the hobby locally. I just don't know what would be the best way to get the word around other than getting my niece and nephew to hand out fliers or something. I don't think the school would want to get involved. But doing this sort of thing is in my nature. This particular time i'm not looking to profit a the door or anything, so i need to also come up with a way to fund it. My logic is, if i can grow interest locally. I can start a business building, selling and fixing helicopters. Maybe eventually turn it into my own heli oriented hobby shop. Problem is, most of the people with interest in RC here are old folks with planks. I do mean retired and old too. It's basically a retirement community i live in.

Come to think of it, i'm not sure if kids are a good place. I don't think they have the money for this hobby. We bearly manage most of the time, after all. I'm not sure where else to look though.
IntegrityHndywrk is online now Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Last edited by IntegrityHndywrk; Mar 02, 2013 at 10:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 02, 2013, 11:28 PM
BahamaHeli
kdean's Avatar
The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
3,655 Posts
I teach music and computers at a local primary school. Thats my "day job". I also have a pirvate music school / studio that i do lessons and sessions at. And im a professional musician (drums) so i often have gigs in the evenings.

It sounds like we have similar dreams to get some money back from this hobby. At least have it pay for itself. Building "clients" for a rc heli business seems to be a big challenge. At least you have a bigger market so to speak. I have the advantage of not haveing a local hobby shop, so i can opperate like a middle man when ordering the heli. Then offer lessons and repair. Not a million dollar business plan, but should generate some money to support my constant upgrading habit.

We also have a flying club down here where most of the guys fly planes. But sence i joined the club alot of the guys are getting into helis. I guess they just needed someone to get a heli setup for flight. Planes dont need much setup at all. Now that they have a "heli tech" i'm seeing more 450, 500, and older raptor and century type gassers coming out to the field. Then i find myself answering questions and helping with their helis than flying my own. Its all about the love of the hobby and helping others.
kdean is offline Find More Posts by kdean
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 03, 2013, 03:15 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
6,867 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
I teach music and computers at a local primary school. Thats my "day job". I also have a pirvate music school / studio that i do lessons and sessions at. And im a professional musician (drums) so i often have gigs in the evenings.

It sounds like we have similar dreams to get some money back from this hobby. At least have it pay for itself. Building "clients" for a rc heli business seems to be a big challenge. At least you have a bigger market so to speak. I have the advantage of not haveing a local hobby shop, so i can opperate like a middle man when ordering the heli. Then offer lessons and repair. Not a million dollar business plan, but should generate some money to support my constant upgrading habit.

We also have a flying club down here where most of the guys fly planes. But sence i joined the club alot of the guys are getting into helis. I guess they just needed someone to get a heli setup for flight. Planes dont need much setup at all. Now that they have a "heli tech" i'm seeing more 450, 500, and older raptor and century type gassers coming out to the field. Then i find myself answering questions and helping with their helis than flying my own. Its all about the love of the hobby and helping others.
I too am a musician. All electronic though.

My local club has one guy that flies helis. He flies goblins and has a few Trex. I think a 600 and a 700. He is a pretty good pilot and probably a half decent tech. Honestly one of the reasons i have been avoiding the club is because i know i will get mobbed by them. I don't mind helping people out and everything. I just don't know if i'm ready to tackle that situation. I do have some LHS here. But the thing about them is, they are trying to go wide spread. They don't keep heli kits in stock and only sell RTF helis. So i want to get setup where i can sell and build the kits for these guys. Specializing in helicopters, i think i can over power a LHS as the heli hobby grows. IF it manages to get big enough. Because right now, it's just me and this one other guy flying "pro" helis in the whole town. The next major town over, Daytona Beach, has more heli pilots. But that club is too far away for me to join. Besides that, they already have a guy there with a small heli oriented LHS doing exactly that. I think he is even a sponsored pilot or something too.
IntegrityHndywrk is online now Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 03, 2013, 08:38 PM
BahamaHeli
kdean's Avatar
The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
3,655 Posts
I was able to maiden the 600esp today and had no issues. Blades were tracking, not perfect but good enough. It was windy and the lack off power with the typhoon motor, 10t pinion, and old batteries, was killing the fun. I had to remind myself that this is going to be a scale heli, but after a few scale circuts i got bored and started doing loops and inverted hovering. With the better 5000mah 30c pack i was doing half piro flips and inverted hover 1 foot over the paved runway. The one good thing about this low powered setup is I can get 7mins of flight with 5000mah. So when i start using 3000mah in parallel (6000mah), and if i stick to scale flying, i should be able to get 10min flights.

I also flew the 450pro twice and practiced some fff. The wind made it challenging, but the beastX is amazingly stable in the wind.

I've decided that im going to invest in good servos for the 600's. after seeing that one blue bird 616 light up while on the bench, i cant afford for any in flight failurs. So, im looking at top of the line bls hv servos (mks/futaba/savox) and buy 1 servo per month until i have the set. I'll have to deal with the cheapies for a few months, but with all the other expensive upgrades and a fragile fuse need the added insurance that reliable servos offer.

Does anyone have a single blue bird 616 that they no longer need?
kdean is offline Find More Posts by kdean
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 04, 2013, 01:52 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
6,867 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
I was able to maiden the 600esp today and had no issues. Blades were tracking, not perfect but good enough. It was windy and the lack off power with the typhoon motor, 10t pinion, and old batteries, was killing the fun. I had to remind myself that this is going to be a scale heli, but after a few scale circuts i got bored and started doing loops and inverted hovering. With the better 5000mah 30c pack i was doing half piro flips and inverted hover 1 foot over the paved runway. The one good thing about this low powered setup is I can get 7mins of flight with 5000mah. So when i start using 3000mah in parallel (6000mah), and if i stick to scale flying, i should be able to get 10min flights.

I also flew the 450pro twice and practiced some fff. The wind made it challenging, but the beastX is amazingly stable in the wind.

I've decided that im going to invest in good servos for the 600's. after seeing that one blue bird 616 light up while on the bench, i cant afford for any in flight failurs. So, im looking at top of the line bls hv servos (mks/futaba/savox) and buy 1 servo per month until i have the set. I'll have to deal with the cheapies for a few months, but with all the other expensive upgrades and a fragile fuse need the added insurance that reliable servos offer.

Does anyone have a single blue bird 616 that they no longer need?
Yeah, the BeastX is amazing in the winds, isn't it? Puts the 2702V to shame, i think. In a very big way. It's almost like if you were flying while standing in a glass box and couldn't personally feel the wind blowing. You would actually hardly notice there was any wind at all. Up until around 25mph, anyway. Then even my X5 gets some turbulence and shifting altitudes.

Personally, for the cost. The Savox are the servos i would recommend. Those others are a a lot more expensive. The Savox servos ABOVE 450 size cyclic servos are much better than their 450 size and the Align 450 size. In that they do not develop slop as easily and in a crash the potentiometer is not as likely to receive impact damage. MKS servos will put you in the poor house, but man they are very nice servos.

I haven't actually gone and checked. But i think the Savox servos are about $50-$60 less, per servo. The Futaba and MKS HV servos, if i remember correctly. Cost about $159 and up. I've been thinking about switching my V450 up to a 6S setup and installing a Bell 222 or apache fuse. I want it plenty powerful for fast forward and big loops. I actually want it to be scale and still pull off inverted flight. Since the Bell 222 and Apache actually are capable of loops.
IntegrityHndywrk is online now Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Last edited by IntegrityHndywrk; Mar 04, 2013 at 02:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 04, 2013, 08:26 AM
BahamaHeli
kdean's Avatar
The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
3,655 Posts
The only time i noticed the wind is when i was doing transition to inverted and back. Flipping into the wind requires alot more pitch input, and flipping with the wind you dont need to add pitch at all. Doing HUGE rainbows with the wind is fun with the 600 sized heli. The 450 can get to far very fast in a gust of wind.

I already got a savox 2272 for the tail, but i was reading that the savox, like the align servos they make, are very amp hungry and can cause brown outs if not run on a seperate rx pack. The futaba are the best when it comes to power consumtion, and the mks have the least amount of gear slop over time. Im looking for longevity so i leaning to the mks. Like i said i'll have to buy one per month or per pay check. It will be a long term investment.....
kdean is offline Find More Posts by kdean
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 04, 2013, 09:05 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
6,867 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
The only time i noticed the wind is when i was doing transition to inverted and back. Flipping into the wind requires alot more pitch input, and flipping with the wind you dont need to add pitch at all. Doing HUGE rainbows with the wind is fun with the 600 sized heli. The 450 can get to far very fast in a gust of wind.

I already got a savox 2272 for the tail, but i was reading that the savox, like the align servos they make, are very amp hungry and can cause brown outs if not run on a seperate rx pack. The futaba are the best when it comes to power consumtion, and the mks have the least amount of gear slop over time. Im looking for longevity so i leaning to the mks. Like i said i'll have to buy one per month or per pay check. It will be a long term investment.....
I honestly believe that MKS servos are the longer term investment. You are correct about the Savox servos, and honestly. It makes me wonder if they are not to be attributed to my 450 and 2702 lock outs. I have crashed the MKS servos on my 4f200 at least 8-10 times now. The servo horns have not broken and the gear train is just like new still. They sell replacement gears and they are metal gear. I don't think they are sufficient for a 450 though, or i would probably get a set for my 450. I am pretty sure you can't go wrong with MKS.


Alternatively, it seems like people install these on their Goblin builds and things like that and have been having pretty good luck. 3 servos for $390 puts them at around $130 each instead of $160+ each. Though, for the difference. I can't see any reason not to go with MKS or Futaba.

IntegrityHndywrk is online now Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 04, 2013, 04:21 PM
Human Being
Joined Jun 2011
1,435 Posts
This weekend we FINALLY had some nice weather here!! so i got a chance to go out to the fields and fly. Man am I rusty, but it was tons of fun. I took it real easy, but the 450 3gx is flying pretty good, need to do some tweaking, like adding more inverted pitch and adjusting my tail gain, but i'm liking getting that heli back in the air Hopefully the weather holds up for a while and spring sets in so i can get out more often. There were a lot of people walking around in the fields, and even some people on horses, so i gotta be careful flying, but i was just happy to get out again!

Hope everybody else is having a good time flying! I got some serious work to do to gain back the flying skills i had, and then to improve to anywhere near you all. It's all good though, i'm in no hurry and just looking forward to more air time. Turned a bunch of heads for sure, i'm not use to flying with so many bystanders watching.

Next on my list, more batteries (i'm down to only two functioning ones)
dilberto is offline Find More Posts by dilberto
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 04, 2013, 06:31 PM
BahamaHeli
kdean's Avatar
The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
3,655 Posts
Those are the rebranded mks for outrage. I dont know why they would be $30 less. Maybe their sticker cost less to print....

Way to go D-bro. Having people watch you fly can make you even more nervous. One of the guys at the field crashed his plane because there were some kids standing to close. He was making a bad approach to land and when he tried to abort, he flew right into a tree. Then he blamed the kids...

I could not imagine only having two flights. Thats like getting warmed up to run a race, then sitting on the couch to watch tv.
kdean is offline Find More Posts by kdean
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Data Help for new pilots and beyond cantyman Beginner Training Area (Heli-Electric) 4 Oct 24, 2012 12:47 PM
Discussion First time builder's supply guide for Scratch-Building: Beyond the Basics Disco Stew Foamies (Scratchbuilt) 1 Oct 13, 2012 03:56 PM
Question Esky A300 or Walk Lama EC135 or Walk 53QD ? PCaola Coaxial Helicopters 8 May 17, 2012 11:03 PM
Discussion Actro 24-3 vs X-Era 4025-667 2.5Y (X-Era superior in all respects) blueviewlaguna Large Electric Helis 51 Feb 27, 2009 01:28 PM
Cool Walk the walk Don Sims Humor 3 May 10, 2004 01:17 AM