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Old Jan 27, 2013, 11:16 AM
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CO2X2010's Avatar
United States, CA, Hayward
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QUAD 4X4 Close-up

...here you go Dil.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 11:17 AM
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United States, CA, Hayward
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Quad 4x4 pix

...more

Note : A threaded aluminum tube was inserted to the boom end to recieve the main bolt that is holding the motor mount .
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 11:55 AM
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Thanks for the pics, that's pretty sweet!

Did you do the metal work yourself?
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 01:21 PM
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Quad 4x4

Quote:
Originally Posted by dilberto View Post
Thanks for the pics, that's pretty sweet!

Did you do the metal work yourself?
You are welcome Dil and yes but the motor mount was ready to use and all I did was cut it to size.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 12:23 AM
BahamaHeli
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The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
3,706 Posts
Took the 450pro/bx out today. It was windy so it was not much fun. I spent most of the time trying to get the tail to hold on heavy pitch pumps. I dont understand why the most expensive tail setup i have cant hold. That would be a beastx with a mks ds95i tail servo. Ive read somethings that might suggest that the high governor gain on the ice esc might be a cause for it. I wanna try a higher headspeed anyway, so i might try it without the gov next time.

I'll be picking up some orders this week but i'm not feeling inspired to work on anything. The parts i need to complete my 600 12s conversion, a used 600 esp frame that i will be parting together with the stuff coming out of the 600 12s. And, what i'm really waiting for, the motors and props to get my plane up again. I just wanna get the "learning how to fly and land" down so i can get back to focusing on my 3d heli flying. Ive got some high powered motors so i can throw this thing all over the sky and hang it on the prop when im ready. Im already looking for a good deal on a parkzone extra 300. Thats about as far as i wanna go with planes. They just take up too much room in my apartment.

Anyway, im going to put some sim time in to see if it will inspire me to get my upgrading done.

Hope everyone had a good weekend.

Btw, i dont see quads in my rc future, unless i get serious about doing a profesional arial photo rig.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 01:20 AM
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lasakro's Avatar
United States, NY, Amsterdam
Joined Dec 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
Took the 450pro/bx out today. It was windy so it was not much fun. I spent most of the time trying to get the tail to hold on heavy pitch pumps. I dont understand why the most expensive tail setup i have cant hold. That would be a beastx with a mks ds95i tail servo. Ive read somethings that might suggest that the high governor gain on the ice esc might be a cause for it. I wanna try a higher headspeed anyway, so i might try it without the gov next time.
Check out the CC site. They have setup videos and mention to start off with a low gain because it does mess with the tail.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 02:03 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Well, my first experience with a CC ESC has not been a good one. I'm not done trying yet though! It's only been day one, and the sun went down just as i managed to crash and rebuild the heli. But in my case it's probably mostly the motor/helicopter/gearing that is causing the problems. I have not even gotten to the 3D and flying yet. I did a quick flight in my driveway and the heli was phenomenally more stable and solid than ever before because of the new MKS servos. Even though i'm still running a 2618V with them. The main problem i'm having is starting the motor up. It already caused a crash with gov. mode. So i decided to leave gov mode off till i can figure out a method of safely flying this thing. It seems if i tap the rotor it will start up fine, otherwise it jitters like crazy and chirps.

Here is the links to the build log, inside the new sections is a video from the test flight. Besides the motor not starting normally, It went really well. I can't wait to get a beastX or something on here though.


4f200 - Upgrades, Repairs, Mods, Complete parts build

Click here to Subscribe to this build log!

Index:

#12: Canopy Durability Liner

#13: Custom Fit Trex 250 Skid Upgrade

#14: 4F200 - MKS DS470 Metal gear servo upgrade

#15: 4f200 - Castle Creations Phoenix 35 ESC upgrade!



It's all very boring. Tomorrow will be the 3D test flights.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 02:17 AM
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lasakro's Avatar
United States, NY, Amsterdam
Joined Dec 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Well, my first experience with a CC ESC has not been a good one. I'm not done trying yet though! It's only been day one, and the sun went down just as i managed to crash and rebuild the heli. But in my case it's probably mostly the motor/helicopter/gearing that is causing the problems. I have not even gotten to the 3D and flying yet. I did a quick flight in my driveway and the heli was phenomenally more stable and solid than ever before because of the new MKS servos. Even though i'm still running a 2618V with them. The main problem i'm having is starting the motor up. It already caused a crash with gov. mode. So i decided to leave gov mode off till i can figure out a method of safely flying this thing. It seems if i tap the rotor it will start up fine, otherwise it jitters like crazy and chirps.

Here is the links to the build log, inside the new sections is a video from the test flight. Besides the motor not starting normally, It went really well. I can't wait to get a beastX or something on here though.


4f200 - Upgrades, Repairs, Mods, Complete parts build

Click here to Subscribe to this build log!

Index:

#12: Canopy Durability Liner

#13: Custom Fit Trex 250 Skid Upgrade

#14: 4F200 - MKS DS470 Metal gear servo upgrade

#15: 4f200 - Castle Creations Phoenix 35 ESC upgrade!
My CC experience also has the jury out. In gov mode it was either on low or all. I switched to fixed throttle and it's flyable but the throttle response is very delayed and has low speed osc's. I need to call them today. I've also got the 130X on the brain where as this whole 120 thing may go away. I have to baby the throttle to get it to spin. Tried higher switching but it didn't help. Back at 12k.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 02:30 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lasakro View Post
My CC experience also has the jury out. In gov mode it was either on low or all. I switched to fixed throttle and it's flyable but the throttle response is very delayed and has low speed osc's. I need to call them today. I've also got the 130X on the brain where as this whole 120 thing may go away. I have to baby the throttle to get it to spin. Tried higher switching but it didn't help. Back at 12k.
Yeah, it seems on the smaller ESCs/helis the Phoenix line is not the greatest thing out there. But the governor seems pretty good, and the esc has a lot of options. The startup on mine is the only apparent problem. Fixed throttle in heli mode it seems to fly okay. It was governor mode that caused a crash because i could not reduce throttle as it tried to speed up. I ended up hitting throttle hold but it was already too late. It was suggested to me by Razorblade in the 4f200 thread to try airplane mode. That is what he had to use to get the motor to start up on the 4f200 with the CC ICE 50. But you lose the ability for gov. mode. I think it's just all tweaking and tuning. Nothing new here, just now instead of fuel and air mixing, cleaning and tuning. Now we have this mess.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 08:37 AM
BahamaHeli
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The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
3,706 Posts
Yeah, the most common cause of cc ice esc failures is due to improper setup. I took my time and studied the settings until i was exactly sure of what i was doing. I now have 4 different ice esc's and have had no problems.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 08:59 AM
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United States, ND, Bismarck
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lasakro View Post
My CC experience also has the jury out. In gov mode it was either on low or all. I switched to fixed throttle and it's flyable but the throttle response is very delayed and has low speed osc's. I need to call them today. I've also got the 130X on the brain where as this whole 120 thing may go away. I have to baby the throttle to get it to spin. Tried higher switching but it didn't help. Back at 12k.
If you are not using gov mode, you must use airplane mode, unless you use a flat throttle curve. There's a thread about this here:
http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=485852

In helicopter mode (non gov mode) the response is so slow it's unusable for a changing throttle curve like 100-90-80-90-100.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 09:24 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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I've learned quite a bit about the technical theory behind how a ESC works. Thankfully i learned on much cheaper Hobbywing ESCs, which was the goal. Now that I understand quite well the difference between power ramping and RPM ramping. I also understand how the conversion of DC to AC effects the systems, what "timing" really is and why you would want a linear vs a switching BEC. Also the ramifications of using a switching BEC and why it's important to have short battery wires and ample capacitors in between the battery and ESC should those wires "Need" to be longer. I should also mention that i am using a flat throttle curve regardless of gov mode (stunt modes). A electric motor likes to, and runs the most energy efficient between 75-100% throttle. Something like that. Some motors might run longer at 90% than 100% throttle. Others might run longer on 100% vs 90%. The power and torque available could be different between set throttle ranges too. 3 Phase electric motors are actually WAY more complex than i had thought. It all takes some experimentation. Unless your manufacturers specifically tell you what settings to use. Scorpion and the like might supply this data. My Turbo Ace motors do not... Cheap, they might not even know, honestly.

All of that is well and good. But it's all pointless if the motor does not start spinning on it's own I think lasakro's CC ESC problems are slightly different from mine, being it's for a 2S V120 size heli ( i think? )

Anyway, i'm off to go flying and test this beast out (again)... Wish me luck. If all goes well i have the flight setup fine, i just need to give it a hand push on the prop, IT'S LIKE STARTING A REAL PLANE!?!! ...
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 12:45 PM
Moving Parts
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United States, MS, Columbus
Joined May 2011
1,426 Posts
Trex 250 w/RX2801 Build Update

I thought I would post about my latest project here in case maybe there might be a few who might be intersted in my misadventures. It has been one of those two step forward one step back adventures. But then, I'm in no hurry. I'm just doing this to have a project to work on and get experience with a flybar which none of my helicopters have except the Blade mSR.

I bought a Align Trex PRO kit less electronics for $170. I thought that was a pretty good deal until I saw one for sale for $130 less cyclic servos. I had the 410MG cyclic servos, GP780 gyro, and Align ESC. All I had to do is buy a 420 rudder servo, motor, and receiver (2801).

Well, I have it pretty much assembled to the point of trying to figure out how to run the wires, where to put the receiver, ESC, and gyro. Of course, nothing goes exactly where I want it to - yet. This kit has a rudder servo board the servo mounts in - not on the tail. That hoggs way too much space so I decided to mount the rudder servo to the tail so I can put the gyro where the rudder servo goes. The receiver will go under that and hopefully I can mount the ESC on the bottom. The manual makes a big deal about separating the ESC and receiver but one of the manuals I looked at showed this exact configuration. We will see.

I have had about three waves of orders to get stuff that was missing. Of course, I had to order receiver, rudder servo, moter, 15 tooth pinion (w/set screw), metal bottom plate, and screw set. That's pretty much all the major items.

After I got servos installed and ready to go, I realized I didn't have any servo arms/horns. That was the second wave of orders. Of course, I had to order several non-essential items too.

I probably would have been ok if I had left the tail blade grips alone but couldn't stand not inspecting them. Well, of all the screws that were partially installed as though to beg for inspection and thread lock, the blade grip screws were the only ones very securely GLUED. I had to tear up both blade grips and break the head off one of the screws in order to disassemble the tail assembly - not good! Thus, the third wave of orders this weekend. My goal is to try to do something to get the slop out of the tail blade grips and mount the rudder servo on the tail boom. Then there are the half dozen lesser items.

I made a discovery about the RX-2801 receiver. I had a choice of either disassembling one side of the heli so I could slide the receiver in place and do this every time the receiver neded to come out (not!) - OR - move the side antenna of the receiver to the back. There is a hole in the back of the receiver to accomodate this. To my surprise, although I really shouldn't have been surprized but I was anyway. To my surprise, there are TWO independent receivers in the 2801. Each antenna goes to a receiver. Since this is a "diverse communications" receiver, I am assuming there is some sort of voter circuit which ties the both of them together. Very sophisticated little gadget!

Anyway, that's all the damage I can do for now.

Thanks for reading. 'Till next time - Roger, over and out!
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 02:21 PM
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Joined Jun 2011
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Hey Jack, thanks for the update!!

Sounds like you've got a great little project on hand. I can understand for sure it takes time and many revisions, but sounds like you're working out the details well. I always enjoy hearing about your projects!!

I've been busy with life in general, but i've also been setting up my new chopper room a little better, got some new tables in. Today and yesterday i organized all my little electronic gadgets (i have a bunch of parts from some microcontroller projects i was using to modify robotics for disabled people) and i labeled everything so it's all set up and organized. Also with my new tables i have good table space and just set my old 450 3gx on the table cause it still has tail issues.... That's the next to be worked on

(oh, and i sold my netflix stock today maybe can fund my next heli adventure.... )

other than that i've been pretty lazy lately with my helis, but reading about your latest adventures, and Coco's latest projects, makes me want to take on something new. Keep us posted on what you're up to!!!
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 04:50 PM
Moving Parts
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United States, MS, Columbus
Joined May 2011
1,426 Posts
That chopper room sounds great! If I could get my wife to let me ditch the single sofa bed in the middle bed room and buy a "wall bed" for about a grand, I could move all my heli stuff in there - would be great! Maybe some day.

It's kind of difficult to know what the market is going to do lately. I sold WY last month for $29 mainly because I've been watching it for a year ($24.60) waiting for it to get to a price I could sell it for. It was at $31.5 last week and $30 today. Only if I were just a little more patient - LOL.
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