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Old Jan 05, 2013, 08:56 AM
rubber heli skills
United States, OR, Seaside
Joined Nov 2009
276 Posts
Thanks IH for taking the time to post this info. Wow e-mailed me back and told me to send it back for a refund and i replied back that i just want to return it for an exchange for one that works. I don't understand how the first couple of flights it worked fine then just out of the blue stopped binding. I really didn't want to spend alot of money getting a Devo TX when just before they came out with the Devo i purchased the 2801pro. I am afraid to purchace a Devo TX and then a couple of months Walkera comming out with a different TX and their new inventory binding to only that TX. SERENITY NOW !
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Old Jan 05, 2013, 06:31 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
7,137 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdeutschman View Post
Thanks IH for taking the time to post this info. Wow e-mailed me back and told me to send it back for a refund and i replied back that i just want to return it for an exchange for one that works. I don't understand how the first couple of flights it worked fine then just out of the blue stopped binding. I really didn't want to spend alot of money getting a Devo TX when just before they came out with the Devo i purchased the 2801pro. I am afraid to purchace a Devo TX and then a couple of months Walkera comming out with a different TX and their new inventory binding to only that TX. SERENITY NOW !
No problem. Just don't try to fly anything bigger than that or a mini CP maybe. I'm right there with you, in that same boat. Like i said, wowhobbies has been fantastic for me. When i have a legit issue, they try. I too got stuck with a 2801-pro. I wanted a 4f200, it was my first CP heli. Well my first CP heli choice. I ended up ordering a V120D02S with the 4f200. So since the 4f200 had a RTF package with the 2801-pro, and the V120 was 2801-pro compatible, having only been about 6-8 months after the release of the 2801-pro. I thought i was getting a "hobby grade RTF heli that i can fix and fly for years to come". Or some such thing. Come to find out the 2801 is EOL for new models. At least the 2801-pro RX and things are still sparsely available, time to time. I'm also thankful that the models i bought have not came to EOL yet either. I still fly them and recently just finished a 3S upgrade that is VERY ridiculously powerful for the 4f200. So i will post that info here later too when i have it all posted up.

Anyway, now that i am stuck with the 2801-pro. I felt the same way about buying a devo as you do. Except for me, my animosity for Walkera and their products grew ever more abundant when my problems with the 2702V (different 4 units) showed up on my V450. I lost ALL faith in the reliability and quality of Walkera in general. Now, my perspective is slowly changing as i use a 2801-pro RX with my BeastX in my V450. It's been very reliable and works great. But prior to this, i couldn't trust them and when it came time to get a new TX for my very expensive X5 project. I went all out with a Spektrum DX8 and full telemetry package. I haven't regretted it one bit, i don't think i ever will. It's very nice. The only one thing i can't do with it is fly Devo helis! LOL. But i don't really care because i'm moving in to heli builds for all my future projects so no big deal. My 2801 will work for what i have now, i did want a ladybug, maybe. But no big deal. I'm more into 3D helis anyway. So i am all set now.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 12:32 AM
BahamaHeli
kdean's Avatar
The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
3,699 Posts
Integrity,

did you ever test the theory of the set id bind being the cause of the 'lock outs' with the 2702v rx's?

Im getting a little plane soon and have these two 2702's just sitting on my bench. I also have a 2612v but i'm a little concerned about the range that it may have going into a plane. Also it does not have the gyro reversability that the 2702 has. I also have a 2801pro rx but want to try a gyro unit just for some added flight assistance on windy days. Its a small plane, with about a 36" wing span.

I know what the safest bet is, 2801pro, but i'm normally not one to play it safe...
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 12:55 AM
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IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
7,137 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
Integrity,

did you ever test the theory of the set id bind being the cause of the 'lock outs' with the 2702v rx's?

Im getting a little plane soon and have these two 2702's just sitting on my bench. I also have a 2612v but i'm a little concerned about the range that it may have going into a plane. Also it does not have the gyro reversability that the 2702 has. I also have a 2801pro rx but want to try a gyro unit just for some added flight assistance on windy days. Its a small plane, with about a 36" wing span.

I know what the safest bet is, 2801pro, but i'm normally not one to play it safe...
I never have been able to figure it out. I think the issue is just a random per unit problem. Weather it's crash damage, firmware, or poor QC. I really have no clue, but man. I got tired to trying to figure it out. The two 2702V's i currently have seemed to be working fine. I may one day try putting shrink wrap on the antenna's of the one that gave me the most lock outs. Just to see if it really is something as simple and stupid as the antenna's needing to be exactly straight and polarized. I know if the 2612V or 2618V's single antenna gets pushed down by the tail servo. It will start to loose connection. If i hover it at night and put the antenna near the tail servo, the LED on the back of the RX will randomly just go out!!! It doesn't always loose connection, but it some times did. I think that the 2612V had a bigger problem with this than the 2618V. But both will do it. I wouldn't doubt if the 2702V is getting grief from the tail servo noise too.

Well, to be honest. I ran the last unit that i thought was good in fixed ID mode and it did cut out for a nano second. But it also did that randomly without fixed ID. I was previously flying both my 450s with a 2702V in random ID mode for a long time after all the lock out mess, without any major issues. The one with the long wires never seemed to give me any issues at all. I'm still looking for these steel braid jacketed wires to replace my short antenna's with. Some times, very randomly. The 450 i tried fixed ID with would randomly do this RPM drop, that i have to assume was from the 2702V. I noticed after flights with the RPM drop that my antenna's were no longer straight, but maybe one was pointed down towards the tail boom or crinkled up some or curved. I put some shrink wrap on the wires to help hold them straight out at the 90░ angles they are supposed to be from each other. Since then i didn't notice any more drop outs (at least 30 flights). But then i ended up replacing the 2702V with the ÁBeast. The other V450 that still has a 2702V is down now because of a faulty servo. But with the long wires it never locked out. I never had the courage to try fixed ID with that one. I will likely get it flying again and sell it now because it does not fly like the BeastX does. So it's not even a worthy "backup" 450. Because i might try something the 2702V don't like and end up just crashing it and being mad anyway.


Here is a video from the V450 that i did try both random and fixed id with. In the video it's actually flying in random id mode. The "lock out" or momentary soft cut of the motor is at 1:24

Y-V450D01C - More Hurricanes! - 2702V Cut out @ 1:24 (4 min 52 sec)
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 08:59 PM
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United States, CA, Rancho Cordova
Joined Jan 2011
3,840 Posts
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Originally Posted by kdean View Post
Integrity,

did you ever test the theory of the set id bind being the cause of the 'lock outs' with the 2702v rx's?

Im getting a little plane soon and have these two 2702's just sitting on my bench. I also have a 2612v but i'm a little concerned about the range that it may have going into a plane. Also it does not have the gyro reversability that the 2702 has. I also have a 2801pro rx but want to try a gyro unit just for some added flight assistance on windy days. Its a small plane, with about a 36" wing span.

I know what the safest bet is, 2801pro, but i'm normally not one to play it safe...
Hey Kdean, I put a gyro in the first trainer I flew. It worked but completely unnecessary. Took it out after the first flight.
You will not have to learn at all to fly after your heli experience.
I had a couple of flights on two of my 450s, but got too windy. About 2hrs in the air with the apprentice because its more fun when windy.
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 01:04 AM
BahamaHeli
kdean's Avatar
The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
3,699 Posts
all the 3D heli skills that i have build up over two years of flying, could not save the little cub that went into a 'death spin' at about 30+ feet up. In fact, i flew that plane full throttle into the ground. None of my desperate inputs on the aile, elev, or rudder, stopped that plane from its spiralling nose dive. It is not an overpowered fomie with big control surfaces, but a small scale balsa cub looking plane. It had a powerful motor and prop combo, but its meant to be a scale flier, not a 'bank and yank' kinda plane. And thats where all my fms sim plane training lead me astray. I tried to do a quick turn and got caught with a wing too low. You live and you learn. I now know what to do in case of that situation happening again. Leave the ailerons netural, kill the throttle, and use opposit rudder and up elevator to get it out of the spin and level again.

I just want a gyro in it because i've seen the difference with the bigger trainners that the guys fly here. It really smooths out the flight in wind conditions. Better take offs, and landings. Some say its cheating, but how else am i going to win.... Its a totaly different way of flying.

I'm also looking at getting a parkzone extra 300. I here they are a blast.
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 08:07 AM
Folding Spacetime
navigator2011's Avatar
United States, CA, Fullerton
Joined Jul 2011
1,975 Posts
Hi guys, I'm thinking about tossing the Fusonics in my 450 pro. All QC issues aside, does the Align 520 play well with the 2702V?

I had thought of using the Align 410M servos for cyclics, but then I hear they are unreliable. Seriously, could they be any more dodgy than the Fusonics?
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 09:27 AM
BahamaHeli
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The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
3,699 Posts
What issues are you haveing with the fusonics? I never had any of the cyclic ones, but have one of the 'mini sized 9257 clones' on the tail of my 500cmt. No problems yet...
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 09:38 AM
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United States, ND, Bismarck
Joined Mar 2012
299 Posts
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Originally Posted by navigator2011 View Post
Hi guys, I'm thinking about tossing the Fusonics in my 450 pro. All QC issues aside, does the Align 520 play well with the 2702V?

I had thought of using the Align 410M servos for cyclics, but then I hear they are unreliable. Seriously, could they be any more dodgy than the Fusonics?
I would avoid ds410's. The ds415m seems to be pretty good. I had them on my 450 pro w/ 2702v and was happy with them. You can find ds415m's on ebay for ~$60-70 for 3. I also had the ds520 on the tail, it was all right. ds525 might be better. I picked up a used JR ds3500g and it's the best on rudder so far with the 2702v.
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 10:10 AM
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IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
7,137 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by navigator2011 View Post
Hi guys, I'm thinking about tossing the Fusonics in my 450 pro. All QC issues aside, does the Align 520 play well with the 2702V?

I had thought of using the Align 410M servos for cyclics, but then I hear they are unreliable. Seriously, could they be any more dodgy than the Fusonics?
No way is anything more dodgy than Fusonic. I had a Fusonic on my 450 tail that burned out in 5 flights. I use Savox 0257 cyclic. They have worked great and i have crashed them a bunch. Well maybe not "great" but they work well enough. They got sloppy pretty quick after my first 5-8 crashes. New servo horns on them for $3 and i'm off and flying again. The pots get some damage in crashes and end up "jittering". If it's not too bad, i still fly them, till it gets so bad that my BeastX doesn't know what to do with the servo after bind up & travel check. They don't jitter as much on my 2702V, if at all. But the beastX can really send them into a spaz, pretty badly. Because the gyro is more sensitive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flint723 View Post
I would avoid ds410's. The ds415m seems to be pretty good. I had them on my 450 pro w/ 2702v and was happy with them. You can find ds415m's on ebay for ~$60-70 for 3. I also had the ds520 on the tail, it was all right. ds525 might be better. I picked up a used JR ds3500g and it's the best on rudder so far with the 2702v.
Whats wrong with the ds410's besides what i just mentioned about the savox? Anything else? Also does the ds415m have gear sets available yet? It seems like Savox is not making a "in house" version of the Align DS415M, at least not yet. So for now it seems exclusive to Align. Though i wouldn't doubt if Spektrum servos have something similar?
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 10:25 AM
Registered User
United States, ND, Bismarck
Joined Mar 2012
299 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Whats wrong with the ds410's besides what i just mentioned about the savox? Anything else? Also does the ds415m have gear sets available yet? It seems like Savox is not making a "in house" version of the Align DS415M, at least not yet. So for now it seems exclusive to Align. Though i wouldn't doubt if Spektrum servos have something similar?
Nothing wrong besides what you mentioned, except that they also cost more than ds415m's. They get sloppy (1mm+ of movement at the horn tip) quick is all. My 2702v didn't like them when they were sloppy, I had to turn the ail and ele gyro pots way down (9 o'clock) to get rid of the blade fluttering. I just didn't feel confident they were going to last. Put new gears in one and slop was back within 5 flights.

Gears for the ds415m are available on ebay, but maybe not in the US. I haven't really looked much since I don't own any ds415's anymore (sold them with the devil 450 I built).

I bought a set of ds92a+'s so hopefully I won't have to buy a new set of 450 servos for a long time.
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 10:30 AM
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Joined Apr 2011
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Originally Posted by flint723 View Post
I would avoid ds410's. The ds415m seems to be pretty good. I had them on my 450 pro w/ 2702v and was happy with them. You can find ds415m's on ebay for ~$60-70 for 3. I also had the ds520 on the tail, it was all right. ds525 might be better. I picked up a used JR ds3500g and it's the best on rudder so far with the 2702v.
I'm also using a JR ds3500g on my Rex 450Pro with the 2702. It's excellent, but a bit pricey at $75 new.
I have a DS520 on the other one, and it's getting a bit squirrely lately. Maybe gears or the pot. I haven't looked at it yet.
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 10:40 AM
Folding Spacetime
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United States, CA, Fullerton
Joined Jul 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
What issues are you haveing with the fusonics? I never had any of the cyclic ones, but have one of the 'mini sized 9257 clones' on the tail of my 500cmt. No problems yet...
Hi guys, thanks everyone for your help.

Kdean, it's not that any issues have actually popped up; well okay, maybe. I am rebuilding my 450 pro, and I wanted to make sure that the tail servo was centered before threadlocking everything. So, I plugged together all of the electronics, with the receiver sitting on my table, and then proceeded to bind the transmitter and receiver. All was fine, except that when I moved the receiver, the tail servo responded very jittery, twitchy, and erratic. I then started ruddering the stick with my hand on the servo horn, and while it didn't seem jittery at that point, I did notice some ever-so-slight variations along the servo horn's travel path. It's not actually notchiness, but it feels similar--more like just a lack of precision. I thought, this is weird, how does a servo turn to crap while sitting on the bench for a month doing nothing? Unless, of course, it was always that way. It then occurred to me that perhaps the rough surface of my table was causing gyro noise to be transmitted to the servo. I then mounted the receiver on the heli and then repeated the gyro test, and I found the before-noticed jitteriness appeared to be gone. But the lack of precision is still there, of course.

The servo seems fine in all other ways, no heating up or anything, but my confidence has been dashed. I then started reading about others' problems with this servo burning out in the air, which is just scary. As for the cyclics, well I never really liked them anyways--they seem to have a lot of free play when powered off, and the heli is jumpy in the air. I have been using the Hitec HS-5055mg cyclics in my other 450, and it's been wonderful.

The only thing that worries me about flying the 450 is what to do when a servo freezes or burns out--I often have little space for counter measures. At the same time, my goal with this particular heli is to turn it into a 'real' Align trex. With that said, I thought what better time than now to consider Align servo options.

UPDATE: I just put in an order for a DS520 tail servo at WowHobbies. As for the cyclics, I am leaning towards the Hitec HS-5065mg because I have seen how well the 5055s work. I actually have some 5055s on hand, but I am saving those for a future 250 pro build.
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 12:01 PM
BahamaHeli
kdean's Avatar
The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
3,699 Posts
Being prepaird for a servo to burn out in flight is a 50/50 chance of disaster. Im optimistic because i just watched the move 'Flight' and i goes to show that the 'act of god' factor is very important.

I've had many servos die in flight, but half of them i was able to 'safely' bring down without too much damage. The tail servo dieing is easier to land than a cyclic servo. A simple flick of the throttle hold will stop, or minimize, the tail spin. Then you just have to have the nerve and skill to bring it down as softly as you can, on its skids. There was one incident where the tail servo did not die, but the slider was binding and i lost control of the spin. I was trying to get it as flat as i could before hitting the throttle hold, but it was too late and the heli was near inverted and heading for the dirt by the time i killed the throttle.

When a cyclic servo dies, your chances of bringing it down safe are very slim. When the cyclic becomes unpredictable due to one servo not moveing, its really hard to control. But you may get lucky as i did one time, and have the servo die in the netrual position, allowing me to kill the throttle and keep the skids on the bottom when it got to the ground. A couple times with my 500 (and a lazy mg930 that would work sometimes but then stop working) it stopped working in a position that left me no other choice but a blade first landing. And once, with my 450pro w/2702 and wk mg servos, the elevator died in a nose down dive into the ground. If i had the knowlege that i have now, i could have killed the throttle and give the cyclic correction to at least keep the blades flat and the skids down. But hind site is 20/20, and a dead servo for me has been 50/50.

Is there a company that has a 100% gaurenty that their servos wont die in flight. When you find it let me know. I'll pay for those.
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