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Old Jan 01, 2013, 12:49 PM
Moving Parts
ChopperJack's Avatar
United States, MS, Columbus
Joined May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
Here is my first gripe/rant for the year.

Why don't these companies get the size class of the heli on one accord??? Especially align and their clones. The 800 spins blades that are around 800mm long. The 700 spins blades that are around 700mm long. The 600 spins 600mm, and the 550 spins around 550mm. Then the whole system goes haywire.

A 500 spins 430mm blades.
A 450 spins 325mm blades.
A 400 spins 300mm blades.

Anyway, you see where i'm going with this. The trex 500 should really be called a 450. And the 450 should be a 350. The 400 should be a 300.

Why the mix up in naming these heli sizes???
Good question. I think you're implication is that it is a marketing thing - maybe?

I've been wondering sort of the same thing about the SAB Goblin product line vs. the others. These are very nice looking helicopters and I would really like to own maybe a 500 size.

A 770 spins 770mm (vs. T-REX 800 w/800mm blades)
A 700 spins 690mm (vs. T-REX 700 w/690mm blades)
A 630 spins 600 to 630mm (vs. T-REX 600 w/600mm blades)
A 500 spins 425 to 500mm (vs. T-REX 550 w/520, 500 w/425, 450 w/325mm, and 250 w/205mm - what a mess)

It just seems each manufacturer sets its own arbitrary standard. I might want to own a collection ranging from 450, 500, 600, 700, 800, etc. Or more likely 450, 600, 800. But not much of a difference from 630 - 690 - 770 or 60mm and 80mm gap respectively. Although Align does seem to have a bigger gap between sizes
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 05:31 PM
BahamaHeli
kdean's Avatar
The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
3,699 Posts
first vid of the year

Its all in the vid description. I dont think it worthy of the crash thread.

600 3D 12sp loose pinion (5 min 6 sec)








The next time you guys see this heli it will be 12s series, using a beastX, and maybe tt tail setup.

New Year, New Gear.....
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 03:10 AM
Controls Engineer
lasakro's Avatar
United States, NY, Amsterdam
Joined Dec 2012
1,327 Posts
I still haven't got an answer. Will a 3 amp BEC from a standard ESC be enough for a uBeast, rx802 and servos or do I need a separate BEC? Need to get one on order. Thanks.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 03:39 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
Though i'm not a big fan of the 'goblin' look, I like the improvements they made on the frame. I have a hard time getting my 3s 2200mah under the 450pro canopy. They have to be set just right, and the leads must be in the right place, or the canopy holes wont get to the posts.

Those mks servos alone cost more than my whole 450pro when i first got it. I have been able, over two years, to add some better electronics including a mks ds95i for the tail. Turnigy now has a clone of the ds95 for around $20 each.

I had a long talk with myself a few nights ago about how much is too much when it comes to upgradeing. It all started when i was looking at servo specs to find something better to put on my 600. You could end up spending $800 on a set of top quality servos. I just dont have that kind expenditure for this 'hobby'. If or until i become a professional rc pilot, where i get paid to demo, and can win some prize money, and get indorsements for such products, i dont think they will ever make it into my cart at checkout time. So far most of my 'higher end' upgrades have come from the classifieds. Three of my helis, 450 500 and 600, now all have scorpion motors, cc ice esc's, and beastX fbl units. And these are not 'top of the line' as far as the market dictates. I could go broke trying to keep up with what the 'market' say is the best thing. Or i can get what i can afford and have fun flying the $#!+ out of it. I would have more fun with $800 worth in batteries that a set of servos... So i will dream of the high end electronics, while do the best with what i have. I would hate to 'dum thum' a set of $800 servos just as much as i would a $800 logo airframe.
Yeah, like i said. He went a little over board. I recommended Savox servos or Align, he was told that MKS are better and he went all out. I just hope he don't crash it first off. Though i'm glad to see he is not rushing the build and taking the time to learn. If only someone like me, told me to do this from the start! lol. I'm still skeptical of "clone" electronics and HK servos and things like that. Walkera left a bad taste in my mouth. Though it seems even the worst "clone" brands are better than Walkera these days for bigger electronics.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
Here is my first gripe/rant for the year.

Why dont these companies get the size class of the heli on one accord??? Especially align and their clones. The 800 spins blades that are around 800mm long. The 700 spins blades that are around 700mm long. The 600 spins 600mm, and the 550 spins around 550mm. Then the whole system goes haywire.

A 500 spins 430mm blades.

A 450 spins 325mm blades.

A 400 spins 300mm blades.

Anyway, you see where i'm going with this. The trex 500 should really be called a 450. And the 450 should be a 350. The 400 should be a 300.

Why the mix up in nameing these heli sizes???
Well, there is no actual "standard" in labeling. Thats one problem. But originally the electric heli sizes were determined by Align, of course. The 450 for instance was based on the motor size. It used a 450 brush motor. From above those sizes i think it's become somewhat coincidence that the blade sizes match the class. With things like the X5, i think this is why it falls in place of the 550 class but swings 520mm blades. I think these days, generally. People label based around, but not specifically based on blade size. So it's just very confusing. I'm with you. It's annoying. But people like us that read all the specs will know and figure it out anyway, eventually.


Quote:
Originally Posted by barnstorm100 View Post
Happy New Year guys
I've now built both Align and Tarot heli kits. I like the Tarot DFC heads betrter than Align. just seems more beefy. The Tarot 450 tail assy. w/thrust bearing is better than align. When looking at the instructions of both, it looks like they're from the same company. From what I've seen, the tarot gear and head parts are about the same. Just the price. Aligh 450DFC main shafts, $8 for 2. Tarot DFC main shafts $1.27 for 2. Same with gears. Two slat cut Tarot main gears,$1.90

I've also been looking at the 480 devil. looks like a fun kit. But why are they going with 6s? They should cut the crap and go right to 12s. I'm still flying my Tarot 480 stretch 480 w/345mm blades. ALZRC has the 360mm blades that I might give a try. Now they have "A" blades that are $25 and "B" blades that are $20, don't know the difference.
Hey copper jack, I just put together a Align 250. I crashed it while trying to set it up because tail gain was too high. This was the 5th ZYX gyro I've built and the 250 will need more tweaking than the others.
So, I thinking about trying a beastx. Is there only one model of Beastx? Eflite has the AR7200(I think thats the model) receiver with Beastx technology built in so might be an idea if you don't want to put in separate gyro and receiver.
Has anybody here used both ZYX and Beastx? I know Beastx is a little better, just how much.
I'm having a hard time justifying a $200 gyro for a $250 heli
12S would be absolutely overkill! WOW. 6S is already going to have this heli soaring pretty hard. But also think of the added cost per flight! Most people would stick with 6S anyway. 3S will still fly this bird too, just with smaller blades.

I had a hard time justifying the BeastX gyro myself. But now that i own two of them it's all i'll fly. Until someone sends me a gyro to match against it, instead of gambling my investments. I know this is as good as i'll need till i'm sponsored or something. Like Kdean said. At some point, to much is just too much for a normal guy. That being said. I'm sure most other gyros out there are pretty good too. Besides the AR7200BX there is also the Microbeast gyro, which requires a separate RX or spektrum remote rx.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasakro View Post
I still haven't got an answer. Will a 3 amp BEC from a standard ESC be enough for a uBeast, rx802 and servos or do I need a separate BEC? Need to get one on order. Thanks.
3A BEC on your ESC should be plenty, but most "pros" would recommend you use a separate bec anyway. Though i'm not sure it's really needed. But a backup system or secondary BEC to pick up the slack if you have a battery failure is not a bad idea though. Something like the scorpion backup pack or a separate bec with switchable voltage for 6V and 2S battery. Just for redundancy. It's what they call insurance.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 03:46 AM
IHW Heli Division
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Here is one on the V450BX from New years eve day. Two flights from New years day are uploading at some point tonight.

V450BX - 3D Flight - 12-31-12 (0 min 0 sec)
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 10:26 AM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2010
484 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
Martin,

i'm getting the 112t slant mod1 700 main gear for my 600cf. I already have the new 600pro hub, are there any other things i will need or need to look out for when installing it?
I don't know, what do you have in hand for now to do this conversion?

1: 112T main gear.
2: 550V3/600PRO one way hub.
3: new style autorotation gear.

1: You have the choice to keep the old 4.5:1 tail ratio by only buying the right autorotation gear (0.6mod) that will fit the new hub style, but in 12S it's not uncommon that the torque tube gear will strip in flight with hard rudder manoeuver.

2: Moving to the new mod 0.8 autorotation gear with tail ratio 3.85:1, now you cannot use your belted tail anymore, only torque tube will work.

112T slant combined with the reduced tail ratio, you will not believe how quiet your 600 will be, quieter than your 500 except the nice blade sound.

The downside is that the lower tail ratio now require hight head speed to keep the tail from blowing out, 2300rpm is the target, if you still want to use 1900 head speed you need 105mm tail blade.

Hope this help.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 03:34 PM
BahamaHeli
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The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
3,699 Posts
That is just the info i needed. Thank you.

I have the 122t slant m1 gear and pinion, and 600efl pro hub.

I was going to use the standard tail gear, but did not know you could strip tt gears in flight. I will be converting to tt, and i already have the tail section raised with a 700 f3c skid on the front. Im leaning toward the .8 mod for the auto gear, but dont like the fact that it lowers the tail rpm. I could get used to 105mm tail blades, but is the performance as good as a highter tail speed? I'll have to run the numbers to see if i can get 2300rpm governed with a 560kv on the ice. Quiet is good, and its that blade 'barking' that changed my mind from makeing this 600 a scale bell 222 into a 3D monster heli in the first place.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 09:48 AM
rubber heli skills
United States, OR, Seaside
Joined Nov 2009
276 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Just make sure if you already ordered it, you go ahead and update your firmware before you use it..... So you might as well go ahead and order the updater and separate patch cord too. Just in case they never updated the FW on the new ones, or you end up with a initial release version which didn't get a FW update. I for one have no faith in Walkera, that they would have even tried to update the firmware at the factory. If i were to guess, they would just leave it "as is" and expect everyone to "need" to upgrade, as stated on their web site. To which almost no one selling these things seems to reference the FW glitch ever. I almost bought, and still want to buy one. But not for nearly $60 and not just so i can crash. My Walkera helicopters have enough trouble failing electronically in the air on their own without adding insult to injury.

The cube had some drama after release with firmware being bugged and crashing models because of it. Walkera released a notice on their web site that read something like this:

"OOPS we screwed up and released a beta test product for our customers to give us free feedback on. Turns out the firmware was not tested enough and some channels will randomly be reversed causing you to crash!! PLEASE go spend another $30 on a updater and patch cord for the updater and up date the firmware for the device to work properly.. AND NO, We will not send you a free updater for the inconvenience of crashing your heli. Have a nice day!"


In reality, it would be nice if Walkera gave half as much detail as i just did... The truth is they claim in their notice, on their web site that this FIRMWARE!!! update, which is software. Not hardware. They claim this firmware update "Improved a loose connection caused by Channels mixed up isssue." Yes even with the extra S in issue included, lol. Anyway. Get a WLtoys beetle, IMO..... True story.
I am not sure what version i got on the majic cube to operate Devo aircraft with my 2801 Pro, but i recieved the ladybird and the Cube the same time and plugged the cube in and turned on the 2801Pro and it bound to the bird in 2801 mode. I was able to change flight mode,TH curves,DR/Expo with it and with the DR in mode 1 set to 40% and mode2 to 60%. It really flies easy @ mode 1, but is extreamly agile @60%. Very happy with the whole set up and the cube is functioning perfectly.


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Old Jan 03, 2013, 02:19 PM
"Watch this!.... Oh crap"
jhebbel's Avatar
United States, FL, Seminole
Joined Jan 2012
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Originally Posted by mdeutschman View Post
I am not sure what version i got on the majic cube to operate Devo aircraft with my 2801 Pro, but i recieved the ladybird and the Cube the same time and plugged the cube in and turned on the 2801Pro and it bound to the bird in 2801 mode. I was able to change flight mode,TH curves,DR/Expo with it and with the DR in mode 1 set to 40% and mode2 to 60%. It really flies easy @ mode 1, but is extreamly agile @60%. Very happy with the whole set up and the cube is functioning perfectly.
Any lag?
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 05:49 PM
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mmracecars's Avatar
United States, MI, Harrison Township
Joined Jan 2012
283 Posts
auto gears

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
That is just the info i needed. Thank you.

I have the 122t slant m1 gear and pinion, and 600efl pro hub.

I was going to use the standard tail gear, but did not know you could strip tt gears in flight. I will be converting to tt, and i already have the tail section raised with a 700 f3c skid on the front. Im leaning toward the .8 mod for the auto gear, but dont like the fact that it lowers the tail rpm. I could get used to 105mm tail blades, but is the performance as good as a highter tail speed? I'll have to run the numbers to see if i can get 2300rpm governed with a 560kv on the ice. Quiet is good, and its that blade 'barking' that changed my mind from makeing this 600 a scale bell 222 into a 3D monster heli in the first place.
kdean,in my box of parts,there are two auto gears and a tt drive gear.the auto gear is smaller than the standard 550-600 gear and has coarser teeth.would these be any use to you.
mike
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 09:20 PM
IHW Heli Division
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdeutschman View Post
I am not sure what version i got on the majic cube to operate Devo aircraft with my 2801 Pro, but i recieved the ladybird and the Cube the same time and plugged the cube in and turned on the 2801Pro and it bound to the bird in 2801 mode. I was able to change flight mode,TH curves,DR/Expo with it and with the DR in mode 1 set to 40% and mode2 to 60%. It really flies easy @ mode 1, but is extreamly agile @60%. Very happy with the whole set up and the cube is functioning perfectly.


So the new ones on the shelf should be working "out of the box" then. Very nice to know. Because i wanted to get one. I just don't know if i would trust it for as much range?? It's probably best to use for the smaller birds.
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 09:25 AM
rubber heli skills
United States, OR, Seaside
Joined Nov 2009
276 Posts
Yes i would wait until i can do more testing with it. After 5 flights the cube will now not bind with the quad. I have contacted Wow, but they wont take phone calls on their support and have to do everything by e-mail and it takes them 2 days just to respond, so it might be awhile.
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 12:05 PM
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Joined Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
That is just the info i needed. Thank you.

I have the 122t slant m1 gear and pinion, and 600efl pro hub.

I was going to use the standard tail gear, but did not know you could strip tt gears in flight. I will be converting to tt, and i already have the tail section raised with a 700 f3c skid on the front. Im leaning toward the .8 mod for the auto gear, but dont like the fact that it lowers the tail rpm. I could get used to 105mm tail blades, but is the performance as good as a highter tail speed? I'll have to run the numbers to see if i can get 2300rpm governed with a 560kv on the ice. Quiet is good, and its that blade 'barking' that changed my mind from makeing this 600 a scale bell 222 into a 3D monster heli in the first place.


It's not that bad for the gear stripping, I personnaly never had problem on my TT HK600 while you can see some case here and there that still strip the gear with the lower ratio.

105 tail blade will hold anything you can throw at it, so no problem, and is very quiet.

I suggest you 105 tail as I see you like to fly backward, and as you progress you will fly harder and faster backward, and to do this, as you know, you need a perfect tail for backward flight, you will still blow out from time to time when there is hard wind, but there is a limit as what a tail can handle.
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 02:44 PM
BahamaHeli
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The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
3,699 Posts
Thanks for the info martin. I'm still peiceing together a tt tail section. I dont know how it happens, but it looks like i'll be putting together another 600 project. To get a tail boom case i will be buying the whole 600esp frame. So, i'll be hitting the shopping carts to get the few parts i need to complete the frame. I will then have the perfect 600 frame to build my Bell 222 with.
I'm not sure what auto gear i have. It the align stock auto gear, i dont know if that is the 'new' version or what the mod is. I'm just hopeing it will work with the new hub and 700 main gear. If not the uprade will be delayed about 2 weeks to order the 'new' gears and 105 tail blades that i will need.
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Old Jan 05, 2013, 03:47 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdeutschman View Post
Yes i would wait until i can do more testing with it. After 5 flights the cube will now not bind with the quad. I have contacted Wow, but they wont take phone calls on their support and have to do everything by e-mail and it takes them 2 days just to respond, so it might be awhile.
Yeah, they have been pretty good with me on things like this. Walkera is especially poor when it comes to support and replacement of defective products in the USA. Mostly because the distributor doesn't want to do the work. But supposedly their TX warranties are actually pretty good and easy to deal with them on. Plus it's pretty cheap for a cube. So Wow will probably do something. Anyway, i wouldn't doubt if you end up getting a replacement for it. Though i am disheartened to find out that besides the original issues with "loose connection" (lol) posted on their web site. Now there is this other possible random issue. Though Zadaw used the cube to fly his master CP and it ended up drawing blood. After getting a new one and updating the FW, he still reported issues with "soft controls" and low output power too.

Here are links to Zadaw's replies to me or general posts about his experience with the Magic Cube.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...p#post22891331

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...p#post22796213

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1#post23229522

Worse still, here is a post and review from Tom Z:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=47

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...cube+master+cp
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