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Old Dec 16, 2012, 03:34 AM
Hong Kong
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I think the vendor reputed to have to best service for Walkera is http://helircstore.com/ at present. Previously it was Clubheli but they are to stop selling Walkera soon. Wow used to have a good reputation but it has gone back in the past few years. The problem with Chinese run businesses is that they often take a very short term view. As soon as they become big, their service starts to deteriorate. The same applies to Walkera. There are a notorious period between 2009-10 when they completely abused their monopoly as the maker of small FBL helicopters.

The combination of WOW and Walkera was not good for US consumers. If Clubheli had been the major distributor, then Walkera would probably have a much better reputation now. We have vendors who offer a lifetime free repair service. Conversely, we have got some really bad vendors as well. The behavior of the local Align agent is just shameful.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 07:04 AM
Brent 黑雁
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Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
I think the vendor reputed to have to best service for Walkera is http://helircstore.com/ at present. Previously it was Clubheli but they are to stop selling Walkera soon. Wow used to have a good reputation but it has gone back in the past few years. The problem with Chinese run businesses is that they often take a very short term view. As soon as they become big, their service starts to deteriorate. The same applies to Walkera. There are a notorious period between 2009-10 when they completely abused their monopoly as the maker of small FBL helicopters.

The combination of WOW and Walkera was not good for US consumers. If Clubheli had been the major distributor, then Walkera would probably have a much better reputation now. We have vendors who offer a lifetime free repair service. Conversely, we have got some really bad vendors as well. The behavior of the local Align agent is just shameful.
Maybe the manufacturers of Heli equipment need to take a lesson from the automotive industry.
Automotive dealers must maintain a certain standard of service to become and remain certified dealers for their product. The manufacturer has a complain department where they feild consumer complaints regrading their dealers. It works very well for both the dealers and the manufacturer to try and retain customers.
One major US manufacturer has departed from that policy and the reprocussions are a mass exodus of customers to other competitive products.
In the end, it is us, the consumer, that helps to guide their decisions in the market place.
If we let them know how we feel and what we expect, and how it will eventually effect their bottom line, they will either listen of end up with the same fate as the studabaker automobile.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 01:06 PM
Moving Parts
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United States, MS, Columbus
Joined May 2011
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Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
I think the vendor reputed to have to best service for Walkera is http://helircstore.com/ at present. Previously it was Clubheli but they are to stop selling Walkera soon. Wow used to have a good reputation but it has gone back in the past few years. The problem with Chinese run businesses is that they often take a very short term view. As soon as they become big, their service starts to deteriorate. The same applies to Walkera. There are a notorious period between 2009-10 when they completely abused their monopoly as the maker of small FBL helicopters.

The combination of WOW and Walkera was not good for US consumers. If Clubheli had been the major distributor, then Walkera would probably have a much better reputation now. We have vendors who offer a lifetime free repair service. Conversely, we have got some really bad vendors as well. The behavior of the local Align agent is just shameful.
In my humble opinion, this guy is top notch!
http://walkerahelicoptersupply.com/

He is exclusively Walkera. He does not stock the product lines in depth like WOW does but his customer service is the best. He orders directly from the Walkera factory. If you need something he doesn't stock or is out of temporarily, he will order it for you thus improving US / China interaction.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 01:51 AM
IHW Heli Division
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
I think the vendor reputed to have to best service for Walkera is http://helircstore.com/ at present. Previously it was Clubheli but they are to stop selling Walkera soon. Wow used to have a good reputation but it has gone back in the past few years. The problem with Chinese run businesses is that they often take a very short term view. As soon as they become big, their service starts to deteriorate. The same applies to Walkera. There are a notorious period between 2009-10 when they completely abused their monopoly as the maker of small FBL helicopters.

The combination of WOW and Walkera was not good for US consumers. If Clubheli had been the major distributor, then Walkera would probably have a much better reputation now. We have vendors who offer a lifetime free repair service. Conversely, we have got some really bad vendors as well. The behavior of the local Align agent is just shameful.
That happens to be one of the places i was talking about. Clubheli is hands down the best i have dealt with too. He is my main Savox distributor. That is where i bought my Gaui X5 and he, as well as Helidirect continue to be my main suppliers for the parts they currently have. Both are out of the Walkera business for now. I suspect both are related to one another some how. Otherwise they are in the same area and might communicate regularly. I don't know. But both are great with me so far. The funny thing about Align is it does not seem to have very much support anywhere. It's kind of seems to be a market where they expect the consumer to know more about the product than the distributor sometimes. The main LHS here i go to does not even really stock Align parts because most of their customers fly Blade helicopters. I assume the more experienced guys that might have bought an Align 450, even if it was from them, or whatever, just end up ordering parts online. Because you would think ONE of the times i stopped by there or called they would have some 450 blades in stock. But they never do. Either they just sell them that quick or they don't get enough sales in Align parts to keep them stocked readily. I also noticed they don't seem to have any kit helicopters in stock and probably only do orders for them. Which makes sense, but again. It seems so much easier to have the stuff delivered to your home. The LHS guys, as nice as they are, are not the very most knowledgeable guys for helicopters. The smaller hobby shop in town is helicopter exclusive, hardly has most things in stock on a week to week basis. But he does stock all the better brand name parts. He even has some Gaui stuff in stock for me. But you really have to find a specialized shop like his for Align or any "kit" helicopters. The normal "LHS" around here seems to be VERY plank oriented and they don't do much with fixing or working on anything, let alone helicopters.

FYI, about wow and my shipping issue with them, that i brought up in the V120 thread.. It does appear to be increased shipping cost on canopies. The tiny little V120 canopies. Which i call BS on! Flat rate priority mail is there for a reason, and it's cheaper than weighed priority mail in most cases, unless you happen to have a VERY light item. They are generalizing shipping costs on something other than flat rate priority mail. Which is the method the USPS shoves in everyones face all the time. You honestly will have a hard time printing shipping labels online for any of the more "economical" shipping methods. So most people just use Flat rate as a basis for their online business here. You might save a few dollars over flat rate by weighing and using a very small box for a very light item.. So, for a single Xtreme 4G6/V120 series canopy they are charging about $9 shipping for a item that does fit in a small flat rate box or envelope for $5ish. Add another canopy and the shipping rate goes up to almost $14. So it might be a shipping calculator "glitch", but i sure as hell won't be ordering any canopies from them anytime soon. Just regular parts seems to come out to just under $6 for almost anything though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopperJack View Post
In my humble opinion, this guy is top notch!
http://walkerahelicoptersupply.com/

He is exclusively Walkera. He does not stock the product lines in depth like WOW does but his customer service is the best. He orders directly from the Walkera factory. If you need something he doesn't stock or is out of temporarily, he will order it for you thus improving US / China interaction.
I remember you had great luck with them getting you SD5 Deluxe blade grips, since no one stocks them. Since then i have checked their site out. Others in the D02S thread have suggested them as well. I will probably be ordering from them eventually.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 07:25 AM
Moving Parts
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United States, MS, Columbus
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I remember you had great luck with them getting you SD5 Deluxe blade grips, since no one stocks them. Since then i have checked their site out. Others in the D02S thread have suggested them as well. I will probably be ordering from them eventually.
I think it is a small, specialized, sole proprietorship. I think the owner's name is Dave. He hand writes a "thank you" on the packing slips. I may have spoken with him on the phone. My limited experience has been 100 per cent good.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 02:25 AM
Hong Kong
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If you want an example of bad behavior by a Walkera distributor, then you don't have to look any further than this thread

http://www.rctw.net/thread-244042-1-2.html

Since my Chinese is not good enough, I had to ask my wife and another member for help in reading it. It was a thread comparing the new SkyArtec Wasp Nano CP with the Walkera Mini CP. The Wasp Nano CP is almost a 100% clone of the Mini CP. Apparently, members there started complaining about problems with the Mini CP boards and some Devo transmitters. They are particular annoyed by the fact that the distributor would not give them a turnaround time for repairs to the damaged boards.

The Taiwan distributor of Walkera suddenly budged in and threatened to sue those who have made bad comments. As a result, many of the comments were removed voluntarily by the users.

In Taiwan, net users have been on edge ever since a restaurant owner was awarded damages by a court against a person who wrote a bad review of his restaurant on her blog.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 12:03 AM
IHW Heli Division
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
If you want an example of bad behavior by a Walkera distributor, then you don't have to look any further than this thread

http://www.rctw.net/thread-244042-1-2.html

Since my Chinese is not good enough, I had to ask my wife and another member for help in reading it. It was a thread comparing the new SkyArtec Wasp Nano CP with the Walkera Mini CP. The Wasp Nano CP is almost a 100% clone of the Mini CP. Apparently, members there started complaining about problems with the Mini CP boards and some Devo transmitters. They are particular annoyed by the fact that the distributor would not give them a turnaround time for repairs to the damaged boards.

The Taiwan distributor of Walkera suddenly budged in and threatened to sue those who have made bad comments. As a result, many of the comments were removed voluntarily by the users.

In Taiwan, net users have been on edge ever since a restaurant owner was awarded damages by a court against a person who wrote a bad review of his restaurant on her blog.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 07:17 PM
BahamaHeli
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The Bahamas
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I took advantage of some good weather and free time to go fly some packs through my 450pro and 500tt. Both are flying beastx units, cc ice esc's, and scorpion motors. Still controlled by walkera 2801pro rx/tx. Happy to report that with this setup, there are no more 'lock outs', and this adds alot of comfort and cofidence when flying. The beastX units are well worth the $200 that you would spend on one. The ease of use and programing, similar to the 2702v, means more time flying and less time programing. I also have the usb dongle, but other than updateing the firmware, i have no use for it. I have another unit on the way for the 600, but it will only be used to control the tail until i can afford a good fbl head.

The 450pro w/ ice 50, scorp 2221-8 (3595kv), with 121t slant main, and 11t pinion. It has a good headspeed governed at around 2800, but it does cause the gear 'chatter' after the first 2min of flight. I've read that it is a sign the the head speed is a bit to high for the governor, and i should drop the rpm so that it lowers the throttle output by 2%. Instead, i'm gunna up the pinion to a 12t to give me more head room with the headspeed. I would like to get 3000rpm governed, so i'll set the rpm to 3100 at 100% and that should give me a better headspeed and get rid of the chatter. The tail still has a bad bearing and i'm forced to use the lighter cf tail blades. There is also alot of play in the tail pitch slider, i mean alooot, and the tail will kick out on heavy pitch pumps. The beastX and the mks 95i do a good job of holding even with the large amount of play in the tail, but a new tail section is needed to get optimal performance.

As far as my flying is concerned, i did pull off my first full piro flips with the 450pro today. I'm also getting comfortable with transitions in and out of inverted close to the deck. Im doing alot of my trix around 5 feet off the ground, and inverted hovers are now close enough for blade scrapes and grass cutting. I'm also getting better with elev tic tocs, and started experimenting with aile tic tocs.

The 500tt flights were proof that i need better batteries. I can do some 3D for the first 30 secs or so, then the power drain is so drastic that it sounds like the motor is going to stop on me. The quality of hk's 500tt is pretty good for the price. I'm not using the fbl head and swash that came with the kit, but it feels and looks smooth and well put together. I am using the stock tail section, with a 500pro pitch slider. The align tail sectiin has bad bearings and causes a bad viberation when using plastic blades. The hk tail is more like the new align tail cases and is very soild. The beastX on the 500 feels very natural. Very stable and with the tracX head the pitch control is very predictable. The 450 dfc head needed some pitch curve adjustments cause it was too soft around center. The 500 has a more direct feel. I can run these old bluelipos in the 500cmt and have enough power, but the scorpion 3226-1600 is drawing more current than the typhoon 500. I've loaded my cart at hk with 3000mah 40c 6s packs that i can use in my 500's and double up in the 600. I also orderd a set of hitec servos for the 500tt/bx. That would make my 500tt/bx the most upgraded heli in my fleet. To be honest, life was simpiler and less expensive before i started upgrading my power systems. The beastX was worth it, but with more powerfull motors means more powerfull esc's and batteries. And now with high priced servos, replacements will cost more. Im very happy with the tgy 930mg's. At $13 each and splines compatable with futaba mini servos makes them a great deal. Im looking for faster and stronger servos, but dont like paying more than $30 for one.

Anyway, i was going to sell the 500cmt but now that the 500tt/bx has to wait for batteries, i might keep it around for awhile. Its been flying great, eventhough the fb makes the cyclic control very slow. I enjoy doing sport flying with it and had to make myself not fly it (trying not to crash it before i sold it). But, the guy that was interested went and bought a new kit so i'm gunna fly it, and mod it, and keep it in my collection.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by kdean View Post
The 450pro w/ ice 50, scorp 2221-8 (3595kv), with 121t slant main, and 11t pinion. It has a good headspeed governed at around 2800, but it does cause the gear 'chatter' after the first 2min of flight. I've read that it is a sign the the head speed is a bit to high for the governor, and i should drop the rpm so that it lowers the throttle output by 2%. Instead, i'm gunna up the pinion to a 12t to give me more head room with the headspeed. I would like to get 3000rpm governed, so i'll set the rpm to 3100 at 100% and that should give me a better headspeed and get rid of the chatter.
To be cont..
I think this "chatter" you describe is the motor pulsing sound that is heard when the governor gain is set too high. The sign of not enough headroom is bog, not any odd noises. I ran your numbers in CastleLink and it should have plenty of headroom for 2800, even at the end of the pack. You could probably run 3000 governed even. Have you looked at any of your data logs? If you look at throttle out % you can tell if it has enough headroom by what percent it's running. Ideally it should be around 90% in a hover at the end of the pack, like this graph.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 09:19 PM
BahamaHeli
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The Bahamas
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Originally Posted by flint723 View Post
I think this "chatter" you describe is the motor pulsing sound that is heard when the governor gain is set too high. The sign of not enough headroom is bog, not any odd noises. I ran your numbers in CastleLink and it should have plenty of headroom for 2800, even at the end of the pack. You could probably run 3000 governed even. Have you looked at any of your data logs? If you look at throttle out % you can tell if it has enough headroom by what percent it's running. Ideally it should be around 90% in a hover at the end of the pack, like this graph.
Thats what i was thinking, but after doing the google search i only found guys suggesting to lower the rpm. The gain is at 20 and i left it there cause i bought it off a guy that was running the same setup in his 450, but he was using a 12t. After doing the pinion swap and adjusting my numbers, i'll play with the gov gain if the problem continues.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 03:03 AM
BahamaHeli
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The Bahamas
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I spent some time with the 450pro on the bench, and made some changes. Some of those numbers i quoted eariler were in correct, but as it stands now this is what the esc setup looks like.

3595kv motor - 3s 2200mah 40c packs - 121t main gear - 12t pinion.

Governor 1 (30%) - 2600rpm
governor 2 (70%) - 2800rpm
governor 3 (100%) - 3200rpm

governor gain is at 20, i did not move it just to see how this setup works first. If the chattering continues, i'll drop this down to 19 and see if it gets better.

I also found the cause of all the play in the tail section. The bearings in the tail pitch slider were bad. To the point where there was black dust/residue on the pitch arms just around the bearings. I replaced the pitch slider and made sure everything was as tight as it could be without causing friction or binding. The 'play' was reduced to maybe 1mm side to side. Its was over 5mm before i found the problem. I should have to reduce my gyro gain the next time i fly.

I also made a change to the 500tt/bx esc programing. After looking at the log data, the adverage head speed was around 1700rmp and peaked at around 3000 at times. The governor was set to run 2700rpm at 100%. It seems that the batteries are just to old, and only 20c, so they cant provide the juice to keep up. Anyway, i set the throttle back to fixed end points and will try to find a good throttle % that will at least give me 3mins of 3D performance. Or, just set it at flat 100% in iu2 and see what happens when i start doing tic tocs near the end of a flight.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 10:19 AM
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Are you using 8khz pwm? Scorpion recommends 8khz for all their motors.

On a side note, I found that there is a direct relationship between pwm frequency and governor gain. If you raise pwm, you have to lower governor gain and vice versa. I've had 4 different motors in my 450 and governor gain usually ended up around 15-18 with 12khz pwm. I tried 16khz on one motor and I had to lower the gain to 13. It did make the motor run cooler though, and performance was unchanged.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 12:04 PM
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Governor gain at 20 is way too high, hence the chatter, lower it to 10 or 12 and work from there.

I've had all the 2221 scorpion series motor, 3595, 3000, 2500, etc... and tried 3s, 4S, 6S, 8S on my 450, and the highest gov gain I could use was 14, you can ear some chatter at 14 but not all the time, so I fixed mine to 12.

Also a too high gov gain can strip your main gear.

Use the ''Set RPM'' governor mode instead, it's much easier to use.

With your number, you can govern 3250rpm without any problem, ignore the yellow warning, as long as you don't exagerate the number, when the warning turn red, it's time to stop there.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 12:47 PM
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There is also the MSH Brain/Ikon to consider, it's better than the BX and with all the christmas sale this time, you can find Ikon for 180$.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 04:50 PM
BahamaHeli
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The Bahamas
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Well, i took the helis out again today and the 12t pinion solved the issue with the chattering. There are still small amounts of chat going on at times, so i will drop the gov gain to 19 before i fly it again. The tail pitch slider, which was brand new, has now also alot of play. It seems the alzrc metal pitch sliders dont have quality bearings in them. I had a blast with the 450 anyway for three packs.

The 500tt/bx still needs new batteries. The bogging makes it difficult to do any 3D unless you have really good collective control, which i dont. Aileron rolls instantly boggs the motor, and i can only get about 2 tic tocs in before i have to bail. I ran my throttle at 95% with 100% on the ends. One of the packs did not bog too bad, but the others are only good for light sport flying.

I'm sticking with the beastX on all my helis because, they are tried and proven, and i dont want 3 different setups and programing procedures to have learn. I know exactly what to tweek to get what i want and will spend less time fumbling through cpu programs and reading setup guides. I think the only features the beastX does not have are the viberation sensor and built in governor. I can live without those for now. I've good things about the brain, and would like to feel just how 'good' the v-bar is. It would also be fun to see a computerized play back of the flight like the sk units offer, but thats not in my budget right now.

Anyway, i have to get my v400 back in the rotation, and get my 600 ready for its 12s + beastX transformation. The 500bx will be waiting for batteries and the installation of the hitec servos. In the mean time i'll fly the $#i+ out of the 450pro and 500cmt.
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