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Old Oct 26, 2012, 12:31 PM
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Doug Bartley's Avatar
Canada, ON, Owen Sound
Joined Oct 2008
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Hi Ken -aka helimadden: This 3 Mosquito project has and is going to be a blast.!! Its way cool to pool the talents from all involved and sort thru the pieces! Two of us are retired,, the third just tired hehe. The build has been progressing quickly because of the abilty to split sections of the build and pool costs and parts orders.
I am currently slightly stalled by a parts order, servos for Lg have not arrived. I will continue by building the other wing. Need to make 6 aluminum servo mounts too! Work continues Doug B
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 02:35 AM
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eye4wings's Avatar
Ware, herts. U.K.
Joined Sep 2008
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Zinger wood props do them. Stock nos 1004 and 1007...
http://www.zingerpropeller.com/Tractor.htm
I have used these to make up 3-bladers - cost under $20 each per finished prop.
Also need the tips rounding.

Then there are the Turnigy props which are very comparable but cheaper
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ler_18x10.html
Need cutting down an inch in the tip rounding process (no x12" offered).
Unfortunately the Hobby King listing for Type B props is very hap-hazard and doesn't list anything closer than 19x10, which is probably too much to cut down - although I noticed that some Mosquitos were fitter with some pretty wide-bladed props with part-squared tips... so even these might be okay.
Same cost as the Zingers though - so no advantage to be gained.

Also although not higher pitch have you seen these for $31?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ller_17x8.html

So what you're looking for is out there - just requires some work.
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 08:34 AM
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Owen Sound, ON. Canada
Joined May 2007
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Originally Posted by RobMason View Post
Ken - check out the refurb of my mossie. I opened up the nose and put the scale goodies in it. Pretty easy and looks pretty good.

Rob
Rob

Doug was over the other day and we discussed my problem with the bomber version clear nose. Doug suggested clearing out the nose former as much as possible and installing a mini-camera to represent the bomb aiming unit, then painting everything flat black. I'm thinking on it. With Doug's encouragement and a 2nd look at the structure I am going ahead and cutting in the bomb bay doors. With the ply box, strength through the center on the plane is not an issue.

Rob, do you have any data for the bomber versions? Colour schemes, what external add-ons make the difference?

Anyone?

Ken
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 10:21 AM
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Canada, BC, Comox
Joined Nov 2003
7,409 Posts
Doug - ever considered a jack screw actuator for the retracts? I used a pair from Lado Tech for the gear on my recently departed 1/5 Bf-109. They worked very well. Of course it's yet more money to throw at an already expensive project, I know! You guys are doing fantastic work! It's great to follow along.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eye4wings View Post
Sorry, I think I often sound a little negative when faced with scale models acting non-scale - it's just that some of us care about trying to give the whole scale illusion, which includes speed... Flying speed, retract speed and everything that helps give that scale aura.

Besides, I'm too old now for all that adrenaline-inducing howling around the sky!

I've got a bit weary of beautifully finished models that spoil the illusion the moment they get into the air.
I hear you Robin. But the fact is that if I had flown my 109 around at a non-scale speed it would still be alive today. But I'm with you. My days of white-knuckle airplanes are over. I'll stick to the calm and relaxing ones from now on! (But it's still great to watch the other guys!)
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 04:59 PM
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eye4wings's Avatar
Ware, herts. U.K.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vonJaerschky View Post
Doug - ever considered a jack screw actuator for the retracts? I used a pair from Lado Tech for the gear on my recently departed 1/5 Bf-109. They worked very well. Of course it's yet more money to throw at an already expensive project, I know! You guys are doing fantastic work! It's great to follow along.
Yes that would be serious money Frank, but those 7 geared motors from Virtual Village are doing a good job of operating my Stirling's retracts - and would do the same for the Mosquito - would need three microswitches to limit travel though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vonJaerschky View Post
I hear you Robin. But the fact is that if I had flown my 109 around at a non-scale speed it would still be alive today. But I'm with you. My days of white-knuckle airplanes are over. I'll stick to the calm and relaxing ones from now on! (But it's still great to watch the other guys!)
That was a sad loss Frank - and mourned by many.
More washout required maybe?

Which will be very apposite for the Three Mosquiteers when you guys get to doing the outer wing panels. (Possibly the reason the Grice Mossie is flown fast is lack of washout?)
The first flight of my Mosquito was at an absolute ceiling of 10 feet and at a crazy nose-high attitude that made me worried about tip stalling it in. But it completed two starboard turns in a short circuit to land safely on the tarmac.
People were always asking 'Don't you have terrible tip-stall troubles with those sharply tapered wings?' but the answer was 'No, look at this washout.'
I used the ailerons to work some washout in and the tips for another 4-5 degrees.
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 08:06 PM
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Doug Bartley's Avatar
Canada, ON, Owen Sound
Joined Oct 2008
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Hi vonJ, eye4wings: The lado stuff is way beyond any budgets around here. The expensive servos will have to do the job -hehe - $10.
I have come to find out the firewalls are set 2-3 out opposites, and 2-3 down. I thought I had just messed up on the first, the second came out the same. We didn't think we would need any right angle, but this is not acceptable. The good thing is I can catch the other two builders, have them correct to 0 right/left thrust before they start. I'll be making the motor standoffs from 3/8" aluminum, so they can be whatever they need to be.
For me, while waiting on the retract servos, I went on with the right wing. Here's some pics. Doug B
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 08:51 PM
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United States, NC, Hendersonville
Joined Oct 2009
393 Posts
I was going to do a PR version, but settled on the bomber. If you google images for the mossie bombadier position, you can find lots of pics and data on what the nose position should look like.

My radio batteries are under the left side pilot position - I only did a 1/2 cockpit - and have extra lead - 8oz - in the rudder pedal box (extended box into nose area where the pilot's legs and rudder pedals would go). This left the nose area clear to detail. Also had to fiberglass the nose area on the inside after removing the bulkheads.

Used balsa sheet and dowel, and styrene sheet, rectangle, and cylinder to do the bits.

Don't worry about the flying qualities of this plane. BT knew what he was doing. It slows down beautifully at my weight of 16 lbs. It will drop a wing in flaps up stall, but it isn't bad if it is up high. Will gently drop a wing with 35 degree flap and it is controlable with gentle aileron. Feels VERY solid and stable in the pattern and on base to final on landing. Don't go farther than 35 degrees on flaps as these are very effective speed brakes - made that mistake on the maiden.

You can actually land and flare with only throttle. Power off it comes down at a decent angle, 1/4 throttle to stabilise decent, and just a touch more to flare. Wheel landings are easier then 3 pointers because of the controlability with throttle and ground effect.

It will pitch up and balloon fairly agressively on application of full throttle and 35 deg. flaps on a go around. Be ready for it with a little down or raising the flaps (slide switch or servo slow to raise them slowly). My servos are slowed to about 6 sec deployment and retraction on flaps. On go around I smack the flaps up and gradually feed in full throttle.

I have flown it in scale competition and it will fly beautifully scale - you can do rolls, loops and cuban 8's as the full scale was fully aerobatic - just make them slow and graceful. Also fun to blast around with it's hair on fire doing point rolls and low inverted like Bob Hoover occasionally.

Great flying, solid, stable, controllable plane that flies like a HEAVY sport model not a twitchy warbird. Just watch weight - the lighter the better.

The 2-3 degrees out was for engine out conditions on the glow version - you do not want to try to fly it with 1 engine (seen 3 crash due to this). Keep the down thrust though - keeps it from climbing at full power.

Also on the CG - I am at 7/8" BEHIND where it shows on the plan and I am a bit NOSE HEAVY!! Have to use a bit more elevator inverted than before the refurb. I will be moving it to 1" - 1 1/8" behind where it is shown. Was flying it before refurb at 1 1/4" behind and it would sometimes try to tighten up a chandelle as it slowed down - elevator would get light pulling G's near stall - so that was a bit marginal but I never had any stall issues.

Rob

here are some videos -

deHavilland Mosquito by Rob Mason 10 11 09 (5 min 58 sec)
- Full flight

deHavilland Mosquito 2nd Flight by Rob Mason 10-11-09 (2 min 1 sec)
- some aerobatics

deHavilland Mosquito performing Inverted Passes 10-11-09 (0 min 52 sec)
- very not scale inverted passes and 8's

Don't want to jack your thread - but any questions feel free to PM me or comment here, will post or send pics, anything to help - I am eagerly following your builds - Great Job on them - Rob
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Last edited by RobMason; Oct 27, 2012 at 09:07 PM. Reason: don't want to jack your thread
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 09:20 PM
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RobMason's Avatar
United States, NC, Hendersonville
Joined Oct 2009
393 Posts
Another video showing touch and go - with pitch up due to flaps and a landing

Rob

deHavilland Mosquito 2nd Flight and Landing 10-11-09 (2 min 32 sec)
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 10:53 PM
Arrowhead
Joined Dec 2010
1,269 Posts
For the bomber, may I suggest a Mk.XVI from 692 Sqn, P3-A "Moncton Express III"? The RCAF crew (both from Moncton) were awarded the DFC for a mining operation in October 1944.

Can't find any colour photos, best I can scrounge are pics of the 1:32 scale replica Corgi produced a few years ago (wish I'd know at the time!):

http://www.flyingmule.com/products/CG-AA34601
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 11:22 PM
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United States, NC, Hendersonville
Joined Oct 2009
393 Posts
Just a teaser - In flight video from the restored Mossie KA114. Gave me goosebumps. Also a good plane to do a FB version of - lots of pics/documentation on this one now.

Flying DH Mosquito KA114. (16 min 21 sec)


Rob
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 11:30 PM
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Doug Bartley's Avatar
Canada, ON, Owen Sound
Joined Oct 2008
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Hi Rob Thanks for the rundown on the Mossy's flying characteristics. I'll forward the info , set flaps for 35 max. can you tell us what you used for travel on ailerons, elevator, rudder. I believe it very sensitive to ailerons. Nice touch and go. We'll watch out nose heavy, and CG, THANKS for the heads up.
Maybe one small advantage we will have is the ability to change CG very easily, the main battery will weigh almost 2lbs and can be moved amost 6" rear from full forward. We will be running a second battery for the Ubec, an 1800/15c/2s. That could be moved to help as well, 2 ozs. DougB
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 11:35 PM
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Doug Bartley's Avatar
Canada, ON, Owen Sound
Joined Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CF105 View Post
For the bomber, may I suggest a Mk.XVI from 692 Sqn, P3-A "Moncton Express III"? The RCAF crew (both from Moncton) were awarded the DFC for a mining operation in October 1944.

Can't find any colour photos, best I can scrounge are pics of the 1:32 scale replica Corgi produced a few years ago (wish I'd know at the time!):

http://www.flyingmule.com/products/CG-AA34601
Ken R has decided to build in the bombay and clear nose, so this may interest him a lot, thanks for the website.
If anyone finds pic's of the original from angles, fell free to post here, it would be nice to have a Cdn plane represented. Doug B
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 03:34 AM
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Ware, herts. U.K.
Joined Sep 2008
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Glad to see you haven't sanded the tip blocks yet Doug - that's where a lot of washout can be included.
Not only can it be a lifesaver when on the landing approach, but it help (along with any down-thrust applied to the motors) to reduce the barreliness of the model when in the inverted stage of the roll.

Don't try a three-point landing without it!

Another effect that I noted in early stages of testing was that the nose pitched DOWNWARDS when flaps were lowered. This was a bit of a surprise so when we had a speaker at the club who had been a Pathfinder pilot I asked him about this and he confirmed that this was what the Mosquito did.
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 09:20 AM
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United States, NC, Hendersonville
Joined Oct 2009
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Eye4wings - is that a BT Mossie? Was on my phone before - now looking at the picture - it looks like the CPM Mossie. It flies VERY differently than the BT Mossie. Will definately agree that it will tip stall badly.

My nose pitches progressively upwards as flaps are lowered with severity dependant on speed until trim speed is reached. With 1/4 throttle and full flaps being neutral and level at a comfortable margin above stall. Any additional throttle at this point will cause it to pitch up as seen on the video a couple of times. Partial flaps (lowering in the pattern) still causes a gentle pitch up and ballooning which is partially offset by lowering the gear - if you time it right with reducing speed the effect is 0 - mixing a few clicks of down with flap deployment might be useful especially on go arounds. You can always hold a bit of up on final to adjust attitude.

I have no tip stalling characteristics at all and have no additional washout built in or spoilerons. Stall flaps up is typical warbird with it dropping either wing to around 30 degrees with a small nose drop - adding power and correcting with aileron brings it right out. keeping it in stall and correcting with ailerons will drop the other wing in a falling leaf with the severity of the wing drops getting more severe.

Flaps down stall is very slow for the type of model with a slight wing drop to either side and a moderate nose drop. Can easily hold wings level with gentle aileron inputs. The wing drops are dependant on which engine is at a slightly higher RPM at the moment.

Power on, flaps up stalls are pretty violent with a sharp snap to the left, but I have to be 45 degrees nose up and SLOW to get to depart - takes some work to get there without the plane flying out of it. Not recommended at all. Have never spun this plane since I have seen A BT Mossie go unrecoverable and it is not recommended for the full size either.

Rob
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Last edited by RobMason; Oct 28, 2012 at 09:43 AM. Reason: got off phone and on computer
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 12:08 PM
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No Rob, that's the Robin Fowler (mine!) 60" B.Mk.IV Mosquito published by Traplet (Some of us still design all our own models) - and the point of my little anecdote about the underpowered first flight and the showing of that particular photo taken as rounding out for touch-down (by which time it was running on 10 NiCads) was to show the extreme tollerance to situations that with most other designs would result in a tip stall - and at that height a very untidy arrival at ground level.

It is hard to estimate the angle of attack of a model in the air, but on that first flight it was AT LEAST 5 degrees nose up (yet flying level) and possibly as high as 7 or 8 degrees. Anyone fancy replicating that situation with their Mosquitos?...

With the drawbacks of the time, heavy NiCad cells and inefficient 'can' motors, there was no option to including plenty of washout and we had to design structures really light to compensate. It finally flew at 29 ounces per square foot wing loading but I had to reverse the operation of one motor to get inverted performance clean.
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