Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 07:54 PM
Dont be divided from the truth
Dangaras's Avatar
Canada, ON, Toronto
Joined Mar 2010
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Doug,

as a point of reference, my 92" A-26 (16lbs +) flies on 2*5cell, 4000mAh, 25C Zippy compacts in parallel, Aolean 42-60-600kv, MA 13*8*3, Turnigy 80A plush ESCs with a CC 10 amp BEC.

Lots of power and performance, 6 mins of scale flying maybe 8 with throttle management.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 01:22 AM
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Liverpool, England
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looks absolutely stunning Doug
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 11:26 AM
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Doug Bartley's Avatar
Canada, ON, Owen Sound
Joined Oct 2008
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Originally Posted by Dangaras View Post
Doug,

as a point of reference, my 92" A-26 (16lbs +) flies on 2*5cell, 4000mAh, 25C Zippy compacts in parallel, Aolean 42-60-600kv, MA 13*8*3, Turnigy 80A plush ESCs with a CC 10 amp BEC.

Lots of power and performance, 6 mins of scale flying maybe 8 with throttle management.
Hi Dangaras: Very early on, we decided as a group to use 6S as our power source. That would allow the use of a single battery by keeping the amp requirements down to usable levels. That had us looking for a motor that would spin a 16"/ 3 blade prop with minimum amp pull at full throttle while still giving us a suitable pitch speed. We will be using 6S/5000minimum, 30C battery. My Buffalo at 84" and 13 1/2lbs spinning 12/8/3Emp's produces 2200watts total for take off and flies just under 1/2 throttle making 6 minute flights easy. The larger motors, HK 5055-320 in the Mossy help settle the CG. Doug B
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 11:45 AM
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Canada, ON, Owen Sound
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Originally Posted by heli_madken View Post
looks absolutely stunning Doug
Thanks Ken: This has turned out to be a challenging build with lots of things to resolve. Because we chose to make it a 2 piece wing, the entire fuselage structure was modified to open up the fuse for batteries and radio gear.
I could not have done this without help from the team here. Paul took on the task of designing and laying out the new fuselage centre section. Ken R spent his early time making cowl plugs and establishing datum lines, then made all the cowls to suit electric while simplifying the entire structure.
All thats left to do is the spinners and exhaust cowls for the plane to be complete.
After testing, I can proceed with the paint. Ken and Paul are now beginning to catch up. We all have communicated with each other almost daily, sorting thru the changes, the problems and the successes as they happened.
One of the best results is a contact with a new friend, Garnett, a 90 year old RC pilot building the smaller 72 BT Mosquito. He flew as a gunner in a Lancaster in WW2 thruout the war and survived. It feels so good to be able to help a veteran after all he's done for us. Doug B
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 12:02 PM
Dont be divided from the truth
Dangaras's Avatar
Canada, ON, Toronto
Joined Mar 2010
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Originally Posted by Doug Bartley View Post
Hi Dangaras: Very early on, we decided as a group to use 6S as our power source. That would allow the use of a single battery by keeping the amp requirements down to usable levels. That had us looking for a motor that would spin a 16"/ 3 blade prop with minimum amp pull at full throttle while still giving us a suitable pitch speed. We will be using 6S/5000minimum, 30C battery. My Buffalo at 84" and 13 1/2lbs spinning 12/8/3Emp's produces 2200watts total for take off and flies just under 1/2 throttle making 6 minute flights easy. The larger motors, HK 5055-320 in the Mossy help settle the CG. Doug B
Perfect...
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:24 PM
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Coldwater, Mi. USA
Joined Jul 2000
812 Posts
Hi Doug,

I found some free time and got some "realistic" numbers for you.

The video that I posted a couple of days ago is my Mossie @ 14 lbs.

It has flown as lite as 11lbs and as heavy as 17.5lbs.

The props are master airscrew 14-9 3 bladed props.

I have used 16" 3 blade props, but found that the my power system is better w/ the 14".

Motors are Hacker A50-12s outrunners 492kv.

I use a 5 cell lipo 5000mah on each motor.

65 amp draw, 1200 watts per motor, 7500 rpm

It's difficult to remember all the details over a 20 year old electric aircraft.
(things have changed quite a bit)

I look forward to your success and I hope your Mossie is around 20 years as an electric too. I wonder what the batteries will be then

-DG
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:16 PM
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Canada, ON, Owen Sound
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Success seems to avoid me at times! Early yesterday I decided to test all the electrics and finalize the radio setup.
I had the Mossy on its stand, tested the LG, everything worked perfect. Because the plane wanted to slide around a little on the stands, I set it up on the bench.
My radio, a JR9303 requires turning off the Tx to get into the programming. I had to do this several times over an hour. I switched off one final, the LG collapsed, I picked the plane up, turned on the power to recycle everything and promptly smelled smoke and had several servos screeching.
This stupidity took out both LG servos, both LG door servos and possibly the Rx. I have not been able to get Flaps to work since.
I worked on the plane from 2:00pm yesterday until 6:00am this morning trying to get things to work again. I have replaced the LG servos, but the repaired door servos are moving at different speeds (replaced the gears, but potentiometers are buggured) I suppose.
I'll be setting up the Rx on a new channel to check its function first before attempting any more.
Shutting off the Rx over and over again caused the LG to bump each time powered was restored, then cut. It finally moved enough to unlock. I'll have to find a solution for this too. Doug B
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:50 PM
Dont be divided from the truth
Dangaras's Avatar
Canada, ON, Toronto
Joined Mar 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Bartley View Post
Success seems to avoid me at times! Early yesterday I decided to test all the electrics and finalize the radio setup.
I had the Mossy on its stand, tested the LG, everything worked perfect. Because the plane wanted to slide around a little on the stands, I set it up on the bench.
My radio, a JR9303 requires turning off the Tx to get into the programming. I had to do this several times over an hour. I switched off one final, the LG collapsed, I picked the plane up, turned on the power to recycle everything and promptly smelled smoke and had several servos screeching.
This stupidity took out both LG servos, both LG door servos and possibly the Rx. I have not been able to get Flaps to work since.
I worked on the plane from 2:00pm yesterday until 6:00am this morning trying to get things to work again. I have replaced the LG servos, but the repaired door servos are moving at different speeds (replaced the gears, but potentiometers are buggured) I suppose.
I'll be setting up the Rx on a new channel to check its function first before attempting any more.
Shutting off the Rx over and over again caused the LG to bump each time powered was restored, then cut. It finally moved enough to unlock. I'll have to find a solution for this too. Doug B
Doug, that really sucks!!

A solution could be the Assan gear n door sequencer sold by hobbyking. It requires that the tx gear channel be sequenced 3 times in order to arm the gear & door controls. Never have another collapse, around $12.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 02:39 PM
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Thanks Dangaras, I'll have a look. This wouldn't have happened I think under normal circumstances. I should have left the plane on the stand for all programming!!!!!
Having to turn off the TX and reboot the system was the cause of the collapse. It sat on its wheels for 3 hrs before folding.
There is a potential problem when the planes power is shut off on the flight line. Our solution right now is to make security clamps for each LG to be put on before power is shut off to Rx.
Testing last night has one LG working again, second ready to test. Both door servos now run at different speeds (HS81's) so suspect potentiometers are snafu'd. Just place an order for replacements (all MG). Also need to check the Rx itself for function on all channels before any rehook to the Mossy. EBPIMA hehe Doug B
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 03:26 PM
...design-build-fly-publish...
eye4wings's Avatar
Ware, herts. U.K.
Joined Sep 2008
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What a pain in the proverbial!
Sorry to hear that Doug.
It all seemed to be going so well...

So to get this straight, at switch-on all the servos jigged out of zero, the gear unlocked, the gear servos tried to hold the weight, failed and the gear collapsed?

I thought I was the one struggling with retract gear, trying to do it with micro-switching
I wonder if the electronic retract units I just bought for the Caribou would have that trouble?

Actually I've never heard of servo pots dying from anything but old age (worn tracks) - I would expect it to be the amplifier board power transistors that died.
I have quite a collection of servos I have reverse polaritied one way or another. The motors and gearboxes are normally fit for duty - hence my attempts at hooking them up to extra gearing and adding of micro-switches at end of travel. I just hate to see half a servo go to waste!

Commiserations from one who has been there, done it, bought the T-shirt...
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:59 PM
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Canada, ON, Owen Sound
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[QUOTE=eye4wings;23993188]What a pain in the proverbial!
Sorry to hear that Doug.
It all seemed to be going so well...

So to get this straight, at switch-on all the servos jigged out of zero, the gear unlocked, the gear servos tried to hold the weight, failed and the gear collapsed?

I thought I was the one struggling with retract gear, trying to do it with micro-switching
I wonder if the electronic retract units I just bought for the Caribou would have that trouble?

Actually I've never heard of servo pots dying from anything but old age (worn tracks) - I would expect it to be the amplifier board power transistors that died.
I have quite a collection of servos I have reverse polaritied one way or another. The motors and gearboxes are normally fit for duty - hence my attempts at hooking them up to extra gearing and adding of micro-switches at end of travel. I just hate to see half a servo go to waste!

Commiserations from one who has been there, done it, bought the T-shirt...[/QUOTE Power being turned off caused the Lg to move out of lock. I first thought I had inadvertanly hit the LG switch.By turning off the radio the servo arm slightly relaxes, as I found out a slight jiggle can cause the LG to collapse with no power. I will likely put a little more overcentre in the arms to help avoid this again.
I have both LG functioning with new servos again now, the LG door servos are scrap and further tests show that both BMS706mg servos on the Flaps are CAPUTTT!!! These pair have seized up, they'll be replaced with some older JR stuff. Doug B
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 05:13 AM
Now in TN!
J Morgan's Avatar
Chapel Hill, TN USA
Joined Apr 2001
24,049 Posts
Sorry to hear about the problems Doug. Same thing happened at Vegas when I booted up and had the gear switch in the wrong position on the 119. Screwed up a gear door, guess those 9 g servos couldn't hold up 30 lbs. You'll get it sorted out and it will all be worth it in the end.

J
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 08:57 AM
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Owen Sound, Ontario
Joined Jan 2006
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Doug,

Ken filled me in on your grief. Bummer! Never-the-less, you have built a fabulous plane! Keep Calm & Carry On!

Paul
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 10:32 AM
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Doug Bartley's Avatar
Canada, ON, Owen Sound
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Originally Posted by J Morgan View Post
Sorry to hear about the problems Doug. Same thing happened at Vegas when I booted up and had the gear switch in the wrong position on the 119. Screwed up a gear door, guess those 9 g servos couldn't hold up 30 lbs. You'll get it sorted out and it will all be worth it in the end.

J
Thanks for the vote of confidence< A little frustrating for sure. Any further testing will be done on the planes stand.
In now have the retracts functioning, they seem to work fine. The door servos will be shipped out today from HK.
The really aggravating thing is the flap servos, both where seized, I could barely turn either one. I tore one apart for inspection, which revealed nothing! They had worked perfect an hour before the fall.
Time will heal all wounds -hehe. Doug B
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 10:37 AM
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Canada, ON, Owen Sound
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Originally Posted by Paulofthenorth View Post
Doug,

Ken filled me in on your grief. Bummer! Never-the-less, you have built a fabulous plane! Keep Calm & Carry On!

Paul
I sure didn't expect anything like this to happen! It had been sitting on its wheels for 3 hrs when the event took place. I have set the plane aside for now, until the door servos arrive, then I'll start over again.
Its all part of the game called building and RC. Doug B
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