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Old Jan 06, 2013, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by nitrofevr View Post
I am sure this system has its place, just not on a 3d machine. That is my point my friend.
I have flown planes with AS3X. I have several "3D machines" with Eagle Trees' Guardian 2D/3D. Considerable "hands on" experience with them. As for these having "no place" on a 3D machine, that's nonsense. They work very nicely.

Not sure how we got here on a mini-vapor thread?
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 09:35 AM
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Is there any good motor upgrades for this yet?
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 09:47 AM
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I fitted a flight an Orange flight stabiliser to an Easy star in an attempt to get my aerial videos more stable. I noticed even on a slow and stodgy plane like the E star the control response was slowed and the model feels disconnected somehow. If anything the model was harder to fly as you needed to anticipate to get your control inputs in. I havent tried it on my aerobatic planes as it was unpleasant enough on the easy star. there is a lot of discussion on the dedicted thread but it seems that the stabiliser is messing with the pulse timings. I also causes the servos to jitter possibly overheating them , I,ve had one servo die on me .
I'm taking the mine out out and selling it.

Back on topic I flew my MV in church today and despite lots of space and altitude there was no way I could get it to loop. So now I'm going to fit a CF prop and see if that helps.

Terry
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Terry Rigden View Post
I fitted a flight an Orange flight stabiliser.I noticed even on a slow and stodgy plane like the E star the control response was slowed and the model feels disconnected somehow.
I got the same results with the "Orange flight stabiliser". It sits in my junk box. The AS3X and the Guardian 2D/3D are completely different and do work well.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 09:55 AM
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I found that to be true on the version 1 of the flight stabilizer and took it off the plane. I bought but haven't tried the V2 one

See, that's the fault with the MV. it gets limited and the mind wanders to other topics. I started all this by saying that I felt HH was going to be putting only AS3X bricks in planes now. And yes, i agree that they need an OFF command. And they need more accessible setting tweaking. Maybe onboard bluetooth so you can adjust them without cracking the model open.it's all getting so small with the "all in one" chips these days

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Rigden View Post
I fitted a flight an Orange flight stabiliser to an Easy star in an attempt to get my aerial videos more stable. I noticed even on a slow and stodgy plane like the E star the control response was slowed and the model feels disconnected somehow. If anything the model was harder to fly as you needed to anticipate to get your control inputs in. I havent tried it on my aerobatic planes as it was unpleasant enough on the easy star. there is a lot of discussion on the dedicted thread but it seems that the stabiliser is messing with the pulse timings. I also causes the servos to jitter possibly overheating them , I,ve had one servo die on me .
I'm taking the mine out out and selling it.

Back on topic I flew my MV in church today and despite lots of space and altitude there was no way I could get it to loop. So now I'm going to fit a CF prop and see if that helps.

Terry
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 12:12 PM
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I was wondering the correct way to move the links to the inner holes of the control arms on the MV. Everything seems so light and fragile I'm afraid I'm going to break something....

Thanks for the help.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by rnettles View Post
I was wondering the correct way to move the links to the inner holes of the control arms on the MV. Everything seems so light and fragile I'm afraid I'm going to break something....

Thanks for the help.
A hot pin works but I had the best luck with a mini hand drill.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by nitrofevr View Post
A hot pin works but I had the best luck with a mini hand drill.
Thanks for the quick reply nitrofevr. I'm not interested in making new holes, but just moving the links to the other existing holes. Do I just deflect/flex everything until it comes free from the control horn, or do I try to dismantle the control rod at the heat shrink, move things and then try to reassemble it?
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 01:18 PM
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Nitrofevr,

My points are perfectly valid. They illustrate the unwillingness of people to accept new technology in our hobby - and even in areas where it clearly saves lives. The attitudes I noted regarding RC, cars, and full-scale planes were real and widespread when the respective technologies were new. Many drivers were against things like power brakes, automatics, power steering, stability-control, and many airline pilots were strongly against fly-by-wire when it was first introduced to the industry. Many RCers regarded kits, ARFs, foamies, rates, expo, and mixes to be cheating, and claimed that these things would dumb-down the hobby. Many pilots use mixes to do what we did by hand 'back in the day', and some still consider them to be a crutch. (BTW - I'm a couple months from turning 57, so I have no qualms about using the term 'curmudgeon'. )

Regarding 3D planes - if AS3X actually did any of the flying, I would agree with you. But it doesn't do any of the flying. It is simply a damping system. The pilot still has to do the the work. It partially compensates for turbulence, tip-stalls, and things like P-factor/slipstream/gyroscopic/torque effects during loops. It will not maintain a hover, KE flight, or any other maneuver - nor will it allow a pilot to do maneuvers that he/she is not already capable of performing. In fact, the Beast 3D and Sbach 3D are still quite challenging to hover, even for many experienced 3D pilots. Anything more than a few seconds is an accomplishment for most pilots. I've got a couple hundred hours of stick-time on both versions of both planes in everything from an indoor soccer court to the club field in 35+ MPH winds. AS3X makes the tiny UMX planes behave more like their large-scale counterparts in turbulence & gusty conditions, and it smooths-out their response during maneuvers. It simply makes them fly 'big', rather than toy-like. And it makes them actually fun to fly in winds that would ground most giant-scale planes. Anything that gets me more enjoyable stick-time is a good thing.

The holy grail of RC from the beginning has always been to have models that fly like their full-scale counterparts. 'Bigger flies better' is the mantra that drove the expansion of large & giant-scale RC. Now, we can have true-scale unlimited aerobatic ships, ga planes, and warbirds that weigh 2.5 oz, yet behave much like their 1/4-scale counterparts. There is no need for out-sized tail surfaces or other deviations from scale to make them fly correctly, and they look graceful in flight, rather than toy-like. The unique flying qualities of each airframe rise up out of the 'noise of smallness', now that many of the effects of scale have been muted. AS3X actually gets us close to the original RCer's dream of being able to fly planes in the yard that actually look & behave like the real thing.

I've also been flying RC for awhile. 28 years so far. And I've heard it all before. These systems are simply a logical extension of our hobby & the available technology - as is FPV. After all - it is a hobby. There is no such thing as cheating - unless you're competing. And even then, gyros are allowed in certain scale classes.

OK, I'm done now. Back to the MV....

One bit of tech I'd like to see at this scale is a 4-channel plane with wingerons. I'd think that wingerons would provide great roll-control at this scale & speed. I know that wingerons are sometimes used on sailplanes, but I wonder if anyone has tried them at this scale.

Rnettles,

Just carefully flex the control rod & control horn to change positions.

Joel
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rnettles View Post
Thanks for the quick reply nitrofevr. I'm not interested in making new holes, but just moving the links to the other existing holes. Do I just deflect/flex everything until it comes free from the control horn, or do I try to dismantle the control rod at the heat shrink, move things and then try to reassemble it?
Yeah, just bend the horn and pushrod a little. A pair of angled needle nose pliers are nice here.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by nitrofevr View Post
Yeah, just bend the horn and pushrod a little. A pair of angled needle nose pliers are nice here.
Thanks!! I just didn't want to be too ham-handed with such tiny parts.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Nitrofevr,


The holy grail of RC from the beginning has always been to have models that fly like their full-scale counterparts. 'Bigger flies better' is the mantra that drove the expansion of large & giant-scale RC. Now, we can have true-scale unlimited aerobatic ships, ga planes, and warbirds that weigh 2.5 oz, yet behave much like their 1/4-scale counterparts. There is no need for out-sized tail surfaces or other deviations from scale to make them fly correctly, and they look graceful in flight, rather than toy-like. The unique flying qualities of each airframe rise up out of the 'noise of smallness', now that many of the effects of scale have been muted. AS3X actually gets us close to the original RCer's dream of being able to fly planes in the yard that actually look & behave like the real thing.

I've also been flying RC for awhile. 28 years so far. And I've heard it all before. These systems are simply a logical extension of our hobby & the available technology - as is FPV. After all - it is a hobby. There is no such thing as cheating - unless you're competing. And even then, gyros are allowed in certain scale classes.
To me, the "Holy Grail" in this hobby is to have a plane that flies the best it can with my brain and fingers doing as much of the avionics as possible. I would not be in this hobby if planes flew like the scale counterparts. I would have to add a bunch of weight to all of my planes to make them fly scale. I would not be happy with a plane that only flew good with self corrections. I can hover a non as3x umx sbiotch with little issues. It makes me feel good that I can do it but it would take away from it if i needed gyros to make it fly right, which it does. I dont like the umx sbiotch because it is a bad air frame. It needs the gyros to make it fly good. I would rather have a plane that is designed from the get go to fly good. So many people are concerned with form over function that these technical systems have to be developed to compensate. I think the dead hand of Plato's essentialism effects where the popular vein of this hobby goes. The oldies said that the hobby suffers from building and design. Well if we have to have planes that just look pretty and fly like crap but use as3x to make them flyable, it is counter productive. I dont care what the planes look like, just as long as they fly well. I know that a micro can fly 3d very well without any gyros but may not look like everybody's idea of a pretty plane. In fact, it looks pretty to me because it has the lines of a good flying plane. This is a 20" FoMojo built by a buddy of mine by the name of Gatorb8. It is 2.5 oz and does not need any gyros to fly well.
FoMoJo20outside (4 min 53 sec)
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 03:28 PM
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New battery location. Allows for a more centered vertical balance. Takes some of the dihedral effect out. It also will go onto a crazy fast inverted spin. I have not been able to recover from it in the living room yet. I am sure I could in a gym. Outside loops are tightened but the plane is more pitchy on the wing. Overall, it is an improvement.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnettles View Post
Thanks for the quick reply nitrofevr. I'm not interested in making new holes, but just moving the links to the other existing holes. Do I just deflect/flex everything until it comes free from the control horn, or do I try to dismantle the control rod at the heat shrink, move things and then try to reassemble it?
flex it and the horn and then carefully move it. I use forceps but you could use needle nose pliers also
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 05:13 PM
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Nitrofevr,

From your comments, I gather that you've never actually flown an AS3X-equipped plane. Nonetheless, you are entitled to your opinion. Of course, your opinion is certainly no more correct than any other point of view on this topic. To me, it simply means that there will be a few more stabilization systems available for those of use who would rather fly small planes that behave more like large-scale planes & less like tiny foamies. And there are a lot of us.

BTW - I am also very particular about the flight-qualities of my planes. That's why I prefer full-fuse planes with airfoiled wings that can handle a decent wind & at least resemble full-scale aircraft. There are exceptions, of which the MV is one. Plus, I have no interest in planes that are only good at flying 3D. I much prefer scale flying, shooting touch & gos, crosswind approaches, and doing IMAC-style aerobatics. But I also enjoy a tossing-in a few 3D maneuvers now & then. Hence, why when it comes to aerobatic ships, I prefer full-fuse scale unlimited aerobatic planes with airfoiled wings, that can handle a 20+ MPH wind.

Regarding gyros & airframe design - there are countless full-scale airframes that require them just to fly at all. But there isn't a single aeronautical engineer with any sense who would say that they're poorly-designed simply because they need gyros. To me, an airframe is an airframe. Doesn't matter one bit what size it is. I have no desire to limit my enjoyment of this hobby with some philosophical point of view. After all, RC is not a religion, a way of life, or a testament to one's world-view. It is simply one of many technical hobbies. BTW - the Sbach is a great airframe. It is an excellent pattern flyer with neutral handling & essentially zero coupling. AS3X simply makes it even better, and expands the flight envelope by allowing an extremely aft CG.

The only reason I migrated to large & giant-scale in the first place was because bigger always flew better. If I can fly scale UM planes in my yard that behave similar to their large-scale counterparts, I have little reason to spend more money on large-scale planes. To me, this is a good thing. And I couldn't care less what Plato would think about it.

Joel
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