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Old Dec 22, 2012, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by GBLynden View Post
Thank you for the recommendation Joel, I appreciate it.
+1 I like mine also
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 05:31 AM
I am GBLynden
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United States, WA, Lynden
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Originally Posted by coreman View Post
+1 I like mine also
Thanks Coreman! Nice avi sir. How the heck are you?
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by GBLynden View Post
Thanks Coreman! Nice avi sir. How the heck are you?
Finally regaining my sanity from the Christmas rush. just trying to remember what I was up to the last time I had a free moment. The avatar was from our indoor flying Christmas party last year. A buddy's wife took it and sent it to me. it's a shirt I got from Wal-Mart cheap and it's fun to wear with the white beard and all. The full sized one is up on my blog. The text on the shoulder says, "Does this suit make me look fat?" I wore it to our indoor session yesterday and got some interesting double takes from some landscape guys driving home afterwards. Gotta have fun

Hope everyone has a great holiday!
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Rob_G View Post
Yeah it sure is a lot of fun! I fly mine in the basement where I can do fairly large circuits from one corner to the other.
Rob, I see you're also located in Regina. You should get your mini out the indoor fly http://www.reginamicroflyers.com/ I expect to see quite a few minis out at the next event.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 01:07 PM
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I had a few of my hot-rodding friends over last night to watch the Buick Grand National documentary that came out on Dec 11th (I own an '87 GN). None of the guys are RCers, but they've watched me fly in the yard and/or at the club field. They saw the MV & talked me into flying it. I flew a few circuits around the living room, and then got brave & decided to try something I had thought about a few times - approach a wall in high-alpha, blip the throttle & pull up at the last second, land on the wall momentarily, then nail the throttle & try to fly out of it. I figured that I might be able to pull it off with a Hyp 70, since the plane easily hangs on the prop with that batt. I managed a couple of brief wall landings, but the 'flying out of it' part didn't work out quite like I had envisioned. We were all laughing pretty hard by the time I landed.

I think I'm going to try that again now that the adult beverages have worn off.

Joel
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
I had a few of my hot-rodding friends over last night to watch the Buick Grand National documentary that came out on Dec 11th (I own an '87 GN). None of the guys are RCers, but they've watched me fly in the yard and/or at the club field. They saw the MV & talked me into flying it. I few a few circuits around the living room, and then got brave & decided to try something I had thought about a few times - approach a wall in high-alpha, blip the throttle & pull up at the last second, land on the wall momentarily, then nail the throttle & try to fly out of it. I figured that I might be able to pull it off with a Hyp 70, since the plane easily hangs on the prop with that batt. I managed a couple of brief wall landings, but the 'flying out of it' part didn't work out quite like I had envisioned. We were all laughing pretty hard by the time I landed.

I think I'm going to try that again now that the adult beverages have worn off.

Joel
And now we are all laughing also and we don't even have video or adult beverages!!
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 03:03 PM
ancora imparo
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Melbourne, Australia
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Mini Vapor battery performance

There's been a lot of good info on the hardware of the Mini Vapor on this thread and some of the others but I haven't seen any hard data on the new Eflight 30mAh battery (I may have missed it).

Here's some testing I did for info.

My Mini runs at just over 400mAH at full throttle at about mid run so I took 400mAh as the full load for this battery. That would be a bit over 13C rating which is a struggle for most of these tiny cells. I also ran it at 200 and 100mAh which is realistically the sort of in flight range I would expect for typical Mini Vapor flying.

I added a test of the Fullriver 30mAh cell and also the Hyperion 70mAh which some of us are using to show some options.
Please note: My CBA is reading exactly 0.1 V high at these low voltages - sorry about that, I need to recalibrate it.

Conclusions:

1) At full power the supplied battery (black line) is really struggling. It can just manage 3.45V at mid run and deliver 25mAh to a 3.2V end point.
2) The Fullriver 30mAh cell is a possible alternative if you can't get the original. Slightly lower voltage but I think would be fine at the lower currents in real flight. My Eflight 30mAh cell weighs 1.412 g, the Fullriver (bare cell with plug and velcro added to be equivalent) is 1.236g
3) At half and quarter power (200mA and 100mA - the blue and purple lines) which is where most of us will be much of the time the Eflight is fine.
4) The Hyperion is heavier but makes a huge difference if you want to throw this thing around at full power a lot. Voltage is 0.3V higher which really matters at these levels and of course twice the flight time. The Hyperion weighs 2.560g so is 1.15g heavier than the Eflight 30mAh stock battery. That's an 80% increase in weight for twice the run time and almost 10% increase in voltage.

Hope this is useful.

John
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Last edited by jj604; Dec 22, 2012 at 08:32 PM. Reason: Added annotation to graph to avoid misreading it and more text to post to clarify it.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 03:49 PM
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Your testing would be more helpful if you were comparing a 30ma eflite battery with an 30ma Hyperion. Comparing 30ma vs 70ma is a grossly mis-matched comparison.

If I can exaggerate an analogy, you're comparing a motorcycle battery with a car battery. We already knew the car battery packs more punch and it doesn't tell us if the car battery is a better choice for a motorcycle.

Unfortunately, eflite doesn't offer anything in a 70ma range to compare. Well, not new anyway, and their previous generation of 1S cells aren't worth looking at anymore.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 05:02 PM
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JJ,

Your testing is very helpful. After all, we are interested in the end performance, not how various 30 mAh cells perform with respect to each other, considering that any 30 mAh cell will be over-taxed in this app. I noticed right away that flying the MV to LVC on the stock cell resulted in a 70% discharge. Knowing that flying to LVC with all of the other UM bricks results in a 90-95% discharge, I assumed that the stock cell simply wasn't up to the task. Your testing confirms my suspicion. I picked up a handful of Hyp 70s and have not flown the 30 mAh cell since!

Thanks for taking the time to do some meaningful, objective testing!

Ruzam,

It is common knowledge in the UM world that Eflite cells suck, and that Hyperions blow them out of the water even when the Hyp cell is somewhat lower in capacity. The only exception to this so far has been the newer Eflite 150 mAh 25c cell. It performs on-par with a Hyp 160 when new, but the Hyp cell will still be going strong hundreds of cycles after the Eflite cell gives up the ghost. End performance is what counts - not comparing 30 mAh cells, which will all be severely taxed in this app anyway.

Joel
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 05:24 PM
ancora imparo
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Melbourne, Australia
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It's always encouraging when you post some test results and the first response is to tell you it is all crap - particularly when the poster clearly doesn't understand what the point was.

I had assumed that people on this thread would have some understanding of these batteries and what the considerations were in using them. Sorry - maybe it was too much of an assumption.

1) The whole point of comparing the EFlight standard 30mAh battery and the Hyperion 70mAh at full power was to give some data for those folks who want to do aggressive flight with this little wonder (like prop hanging and landing it on the wall). The conclusion is clear. The standard battery is fine for the more relaxed flying most people will do at partial throttle but inadequate if you really want to push it and the extra weight of the Hyperion 70mAh is acceptable. I have a generally low opinion of the very small Eflight supplied 1S batteries especially the 70mAh but this one is I think decent enough for what is intended. That's why I included the Fullriver of the same capacity as it is a fairly well known cell. There are very few options at this size since most are for low drain applications and struggle over a fewC.

2) If you had done even the most basic research you would know that Hyperion don't make a 30mAh cell and never have as far as I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruzam View Post
Your testing would be more helpful if you were comparing a 30ma eflite battery with an 30ma Hyperion. Comparing 30ma vs 70ma is a grossly mis-matched comparison.

If I can exaggerate an analogy, you're comparing a motorcycle battery with a car battery. We already knew the car battery packs more punch and it doesn't tell us if the car battery is a better choice for a motorcycle.

Unfortunately, eflite doesn't offer anything in a 70ma range to compare. Well, not new anyway, and their previous generation of 1S cells aren't worth looking at anymore.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 05:29 PM
ancora imparo
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Thanks, Joel.

You will notice I took these cells down to 3.2V under load which is more than I would do for larger batteries. The reason is they have high IR and bounce back quite a lot when you take the load off.

In all the bricks I have tested, 3.2 +/-0.05V seems to be the brown out voltage. Haven't checked the new 3ch Mini Vapor brick - someone may have. Possibly it is now better since other 1S receivers are commonly working down to 3V or less these days.

BTW: Eflight spec this battery as : Constant Discharge: 25C (0.75A). What a joke.

John
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
JJ,

Your testing is very helpful. After all, we are interested in the end performance, not how various 30 mAh cells perform with respect to each other, considering that any 30 mAh cell will be over-taxed in this app. I noticed right away that flying the MV to LVC on the stock cell resulted in a 70% discharge. Knowing that flying to LVC with all of the other UM bricks results in a 90-95% discharge, I assumed that the stock cell simply wasn't up to the task. Your testing confirms my suspicion. I picked up a handful of Hyp 70s and have not flown the 30 mAh cell since!

Thanks for taking the time to do some meaningful, objective testing!

Ruzam,

It is common knowledge in the UM world that Eflite cells suck, and that Hyperions blow them out of the water even when the Hyp cell is somewhat lower in capacity. The only exception to this so far has been the newer Eflite 150 mAh 25c cell. It performs on-par with a Hyp 160 when new, but the Hyp cell will still be going strong hundreds of cycles after the Eflite cell gives up the ghost. End performance is what counts - not comparing 30 mAh cells, which will all be severely taxed in this app anyway.

Joel
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Last edited by jj604; Dec 22, 2012 at 05:34 PM.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 05:34 PM
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Whoops! Don't tell the lady! I think it looks good up there though
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
JJ,

It is common knowledge in the UM world that Eflite cells suck, and that Hyperions blow them out of the water even when the Hyp cell is somewhat lower in capacity. The only exception to this so far has been the newer Eflite 150 mAh 25c cell...
The 12/14C 1s Eflite cells are no longer available. They're all the good ones now.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:33 PM
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United States, MA, Southbridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj604 View Post
1) The whole point of comparing the EFlight standard 30mAh battery and the Hyperion 70mAh at full power was to give some data for those folks who want to do aggressive flight with this little wonder (like prop hanging and landing it on the wall). The conclusion is clear. The standard battery is fine for the more relaxed flying most people will do at partial throttle but inadequate if you really want to push it and the extra weight of the Hyperion 70mAh is acceptable. I have a generally low opinion of the very small Eflight supplied 1S batteries especially the 70mAh but this one is I think decent enough for what is intended. That's why I included the Fullriver of the same capacity as it is a fairly well known cell. There are very few options at this size since most are for low drain applications and struggle over a fewC.
The whole point of doing the 70ma is to see what the true potential of the power system is and if the 30ma is sufficient or not. You showed it wasn't. There is then a compromise between the performance and the weight of the 70ma cell
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:53 PM
Go small or go home
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
After all, we are interested in the end performance, not how various 30 mAh cells perform with respect to each other
I'm sorry, but unfortunately, this tells us nothing about the end performance. All it tells us is that a bigger battery has more power and can deliver longer. Nothing more. We know bigger batteries have more power. We don't know how the extra weight affects flight. How much 'more' power is used just carrying the extra weight? Can you fly the mini slower (in smaller spaces) with more power or does it need to fly faster because of the extra weight? Will the motor life be reduced because it's working harder?

If you're serious about testing for end performance, you change one variable (the battery manufacturer for example) and compare the differences. And yes that means you compare how various 30 mAh perform with respect to each other.

For example I learned that Fullriver 30 is less capable than the Eflite 30. But I might consider that an acceptable loss, if the price were right, especially if the Fullriver 30 weighs less than the Eflite 30 (that wasn't completely clear). Even a slightest weight difference is a substantial consideration at this size.

Eflite batteries have sucked in the past, badly. This is common knowledge in the UM world. The new batteries do not suck. This is also common knowledge, especially in the UM world.
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