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Old Dec 03, 2012, 12:30 AM
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You need to mechanically trim these planes, the more left trim you give the less well it will turn left! Mine needed alot of massaging of the U-bend to make it so it only needed a little left trim. With high alpha on the Mini Vapor moving the control rod to the innermost hole on the MV rudder is almost required.

Ive been flying my MV with battery all the way back, but i only fly it indoors, the wings were a little rocky, but with enough practice i got smooth enough so it wouldnt happen as much.
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 12:59 AM
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Thanks, I'll give that a try about the mechanical trim. I've found that I can't come close to flying on low rates, I'll try moving to the inner position on the rudder as you suggested.
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 01:07 AM
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It was very difficult as this is a much smaller craft than the larger UMs that use this control type, however, the mini vapor is one of the most durable planes i have ever known. Ive sat on it, ive crashed into more things than a drug abuser, ive even had a seizure while adjusting the u bend and crushed it!
No damage, not even a bent shaft, the prop doesnt have nicks, its amazing, so when youre moving the control rod, its pretty okay to use some force on this plane.
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 07:21 AM
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batteries

Anyone found a source for 30-50ma batteries that have better C rating?
I use some 70ma all the way back in front of brick but they are not really good batteries.
Tim
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by w4yn View Post
Anyone found a source for 30-50ma batteries that have better C rating?
I use some 70ma all the way back in front of brick but they are not really good batteries.
Tim
Tim,

I'm still on the hunt.

Hyperion's 70 mAh UM cells perform very well in the larger Vapor & similar planes, but at 2.5g, they may be a bit heavy for the MV. A simple test would be to add 1.1g of ballast to the stock cell & see how it affects slow-flight & maneuverability. If the plane still flies slowly enough & handles well enough with a ballasted stock cell, it will fly even better with the Hyp 70 - due to the increased thrust.

Joel
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 04:02 PM
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I was looking for alternative batteries, but I thought even the Hyperion 70s would be too heavy. I didn't see any other options though.
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 04:50 PM
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I was looking for alternative batteries, but I thought even the Hyperion 70s would be too heavy. I didn't see any other options though.
Yeah, an extra gram on an aircraft with a 9.2g AUW is substantial. I'm going to add a gram of ballast to the stock battery & see how she flies. If I can still fly a circuit around the living room & kitchen up on the wing, and if I can still fly a high-alpha figure-eight in the living room, I think I'll order a handful of Hyp 70s. If not, I guess I'll still be on the hunt. Hopefully, the premium LiPo companies will start to offer high-performance 30-50 mAh cells as living room fliers gain popularity.

Joel
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 06:03 PM
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Yeah, an extra gram on an aircraft with a 9.2g AUW is substantial. I'm going to add a gram of ballast to the stock battery & see how she flies. If I can still fly a circuit around the living room & kitchen up on the wing, and if I can still fly a high-alpha figure-eight in the living room, I think I'll order a handful of Hyp 70s. If not, I guess I'll still be on the hunt. Hopefully, the premium LiPo companies will start to offer high-performance 30-50 mAh cells as living room fliers gain popularity.

Joel
tried some 70's and they worked ok all the back touching brick.
Tim
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 06:51 PM
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tried some 70's and they worked ok all the back touching brick.
Tim
You said they weren't very good batteries, but how was the thrust-to-weight as compared to the 30 mAh?

BTW - I just flew a few circuits around the living room with 1.1g of ballast on the factory cell. I had no trouble at all flying up on the wing or high-alpha. Even had enough grunt to pull out of a hover - but just barely. Looks like it's time to order a few Hyp 70s.

Joel
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
You said they weren't very good batteries, but how was the thrust-to-weight as compared to the 30 mAh?

BTW - I just flew a few circuits around the living room with 1.1g of ballast on the factory cell. I had no trouble at all flying up on the wing or high-alpha. Even had enough grunt to pull out of a hover - but just barely. Looks like it's time to order a few Hyp 70s.

Joel
Sounds good!
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 05:08 PM
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And every time I crash, my latest cg gets wiped out since the battery tray keeps sliding around, very frustrating. I've learned how to go out of a harrier into a very fast dive though! on latest battery I couldn't seem to get a pronounced right turn trimmed out, so ended up just doing mostly "hovering", ugh (though the rudder looks right down the center-line to me). Ok, I'm not the best pilot in the world, to say the least, but I'm not THIS bad (hey, I can even keep a 3 ball fountain going juggling, so I have SOME eye-hand coordination....). . Any help would be appreciated before I give this away to the nearest 10 year old.....(not a bad idea, in any case).
1. Note the battery position so you can reset it after a bump.

2. Coat the fuselage stick with a VERY THIN coat of something like contact cement on one face so the battery tray does not slide as easily. You don't want to glue it, just make the stick "sticky".

3. Trim the elevator mechanically so it is level with zero transmitter trim and then adjust the CG so you get a smooth glide (hand launched, power off)with no porpoising.

4. Inspect your wing to see if one or more rib fittings were assembled upside down. The upper CF rod should be bowed up and the lower CF rod should be straight. If one of the fittings is installed upside down, the lower rod will be bowed and the upper rod will be straighter than it should. That will give you less lift on that side of the wing and cause you to need excessive rudder trim to fly straight. I know because one side of my wing was assembled incorrectly. Horizon is sending me a new wing. They now claim this is the first they have heard of this issue?

Paul
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 09:37 PM
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Thanks Paul, all very good advice. I've been doing a LOT of glide tests with battery and can occasionally get good glides (even when I not the battery position well, will have to find a good position and then mark it). I'll "sticky up" the fuselage stick as you suggested. on adjusting the rudder to the inner hole, I managed to pull the "thingie" out of the sleeve it was in. I'm assuming that's very small heat shrink tubing? I think I now have about 6 batteries worth of testing, with maybe 60 seconds of what I deem "acceptable" flight time. this thing seems to be about 10x more finicky that it's big brother (comes with the lower mass and too small wing area, I suppose).
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 06:05 AM
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I think I now have about 6 batteries worth of testing, with maybe 60 seconds of what I deem "acceptable" flight time. this thing seems to be about 10x more finicky that it's big brother (comes with the lower mass and too small wing area, I suppose).
What kind of issues are you having flying it? Are you perhaps overcontrolling it? At anything other than WOT, it is easy to get too nose high and slow. It doesn't really "stall" but it gets very slow and you have less control. It also has a significant "pitch up with power" tendency so you can't just add power without also using elevator to control attitude. If you can get a smooth glide from a gentle slightly nose down toss, you should be able to fly under power.

Properly set up (CG, trim), I can launch at 50% throttle and fly around, but that is about as low as I can comfortably go on throttle. However, mine has a defective wing and requires some right rudder trim to fly straight so it is more "draggy" than usual. I expect it will fly at slightly lower throttle settings once I replace the wing and no longer need rudder trim (which increases drag).

Be very careful adding anything to the fuselage stick to make it "sticky". You want a very very thin coat, and if you are using contact cement like I did, make SURE it is dry before you slide the battery mount over it. You want friction. You don't want to end up gluing the mount to the stick

Paul
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 12:44 PM
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60 seconds of "acceptable" flight time?

Dont mean to be harsh, but vertical punch shouldnt be required for fun with any vapor.

Im easily getting four minutes, and at the end it still has the power for maintaining high alpha.

So why is only the first 60 seconds "acceptable?"
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 01:46 PM
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Anyone tried the Vapor or J-3 motor in a Mini Vapor? I got to fly one in a gym last nite and it was kinda neat but left me thinking it could use more power. Would get a little heavier, the brick might not handle it, would probably need the 70 mah battery. Being able to loop from level flight (and really hover) would make it more interesting. Was wondering if anyone had tried it?
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