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Old Apr 25, 2013, 11:44 AM
Some people call me Maurice
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Thousand Oaks, CA
Joined Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skaluf View Post
You can still use it to add flaps, no problem. Chose the outputs you want them assigned to and change them to FLAP using the Function menu.
OK Steve, I double checked. This is absolutely incorrect. In either airplane or glider mode there is no possibility to add flaps or even add a second flap to a one-flap model. Of course you can have all sorts of Aux channels and mimic most/all of the functionality with PMixes but you cannot get all the flap menus and features to appear.

Rip, one of the critical safety problems with this radio is that when you change something innocuous like the flaps, the model gets completely deleted and since Futaba's default throttle position is backwards it immediately goes to full throttle. This can't be avoided with a throttle hold switch. I don't know if that's what you did, but it's something to be aware of. Of course if the throttle came on because you were messing with functions, reversals, mixes, etc. then chances are a throttle hold switch would still have been overridden. Anyway, be sure to choose "Motor", not "Throttle" in the Function menu and you'll get the hold and other options in a new "Motor" menu.
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Old Apr 25, 2013, 11:45 AM
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The Northeast Kingdom, Vermont
Joined Jun 2004
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Make sure that any electric model has MOTOR function selected, rather than THROTTLE. The function to lock out the throttle stick with an assignable switch is part of the electric MOTOR function.
I use this feature on my 8FG, big improvement in safety for electrics. On the 8FG, if you have the throttle stick lock engaged, even the moving servo test will not cause your electric powered model to decide to take off on it's own
I'm sure the 14SG software is the same in this respect
Pete
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Old Apr 25, 2013, 12:01 PM
Electrif(r)ied nitroman
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BelgiŽ, Vlaams Gewest, Putte
Joined Jun 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripacheco View Post
I know it is possible to do that but I don't know how... could you give me a pointer?
It's been explained in this thread by MalcolmHolt (post #1660) :

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1660

If You work at Your settings with electric planes ALWAYS remove prop !
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 01:40 AM
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Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Jun 2010
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Originally Posted by losifanatic View Post
I think the bp hobbies one is what l am going to get. I have a powerlab 8 charger so l won't need to get a charger just for the life battery.
Being a 2100mah it should give about an extra hour of on time than the stock 1800mah battery.
I understand the battery technology is better, an extra hour would not be worth the hassle for me to remove the battery and charge each time.. any other advantages? Just curious and ready to learn..

Putting the Lipo in the DX8 and 7s was a no brainer... 20 hours with Stock Battery, 40 hours with the Lipo and able to charge using the stock charger.. (they have multi chemistry chargers built in.. great option)

But for an hour?? Not criticising at all.. just interested in other reasons to do it....
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 03:20 AM
Watts is where its at!
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United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Oct 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob2160 View Post
I understand the battery technology is better, an extra hour would not be worth the hassle for me to remove the battery and charge each time.. any other advantages? Just curious and ready to learn..

Putting the Lipo in the DX8 and 7s was a no brainer... 20 hours with Stock Battery, 40 hours with the Lipo and able to charge using the stock charger.. (they have multi chemistry chargers built in.. great option)

But for an hour?? Not criticising at all.. just interested in other reasons to do it....
I got this.

* No self discharge. Charge the radio whenever you have time then just grab it and go.
* Charge in an hour or less. 60% in less than 30 minutes. Great when you are in a rush.
* Charge at the field with the charger I already have there. No extra gear to carry. The wal wart is the size of a bus and takes forever. Thats not worth keeping in my field box.
* Charger tells you when it's done. The wall wart will just run forever, which seems kinda silly in the year 2013. What other device do you have that doesn't tell you when its fully charged?

Would you EVER want a NiMh? Maybe, if it's really cold where you live then the NiMh would be worth the hassle...
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 03:43 AM
Electrif(r)ied nitroman
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BelgiŽ, Vlaams Gewest, Putte
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- Don't forget the Lipo safety aspect at home and in Your car during transport.
- I always store my Lipo's in a fireproof container at home.
- Keeping Lipo's in my Tx stored at home does not give me a safe feeling.
- When You'r in a rush that's when things usually go wrong specially during charging the battery.

Therefore, NiMh for my Tx's is the way to go for me.
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 04:15 AM
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France, PACA, Aix-en-Provence
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danny.act View Post
- Don't forget the Lipo safety aspect at home and in Your car during transport.
- I always store my Lipo's in a fireproof container at home.
- Keeping Lipo's in my Tx stored at home does not give me a safe feeling.
- When You'r in a rush that's when things usually go wrong specially during charging the battery.

Therefore, NiMh for my Tx's is the way to go for me.
Whilst there is a safety aspect to Lipo's there are two things I want to note here:
  1. Lipo's can be dangerous when they are damaged, shortcircuited or overcharged/discharged; I would not worry about them spontaneously combusting. I (and this is my personal opinion) believe that the safety risk of LiPo's is slightly overhyped. This risk is further reduced in a transmitter because if you use the futaba plug to charge it, you cannot short circuit it by accident (even in a hurry) and people have become more aware about how to charge LiPo's and are more unlikely to choose an incorrect charger/charge program than when the technology was new. Crash/pysical damage is also much more unlikely inside a transmitter.
  2. I was talking about LiFe's, not LiPo's. They are not the same technology.

Mind you, I don't really care which batteries are used in our transmitters. End of the day you need to choose something that you are happy with. I would never want to lose any sleep overs something like a transmitter battery, nor would I want to be responsible for someone accidentally drilling a nail through their transmitter and burning their house down...

My personal opinion is that the modern low self discharge NiMh's, such as Eneloops, are just about the ideal battery to put into a transmitter due to their ease of use and are easy to anticipate discharge curve. One could argue that they do not like being charged quickly. The reason I used a LiFe battery in my 8FG is simply because AA cells did not fit and I wanted a battery that did not lose its charge, and I can only say that I am very happy with it so far and I sleep very well at night
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Old Apr 29, 2013, 09:32 AM
rip
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United States, FL, Niceville
Joined Jan 2013
1,651 Posts
Magazine Article Dissapoints

Fly RC magazine had an 14SG "in depth" review .

I bought that magazine just because of that article. However there was nothing "in depth" about the review.

It read like a copy/paste from marketing documents. I suppose, sadly, that is what most reviews are these days. But I expected more.

They did mention Malcom's guide as invaluable. This is big kudos for this group!

I was particularly appalled by the lack of criticism about the Futaba documentation. (despite having mentioned Malcom's guide! -- afraid of Futaba getting mad at the magazine?)

To me ... manufacturers will never improve on their products if they don't hear criticism ... and that includes the press. We need an equivalent to a ranting political radio-talk-host in RC. Maybe that will set some behinds on fire
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Old Apr 29, 2013, 09:37 AM
rip
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United States, FL, Niceville
Joined Jan 2013
1,651 Posts
Very happy with my 14SG

Yes my learning curve has been steep.
Yes I have wanted to throw the radio across the hall a few times.

However now that I'm starting to understand how the radio is meant to be used I am very happy about it.

I have a Kadet Senior EG trainer programmed in there. Very basic no issues.
I also have a motor glider programmed in the 14 SG. 4-servo wings. No issues after I figured out how to setup the mixes.

I have been helping kids learn to fly with a buddy box and really like the Trainer feature that allows you to select which channels you will let the kid operate and how much throw you will let them have.

Loving this ! (even the moments when I get frustrated)
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Old Apr 29, 2013, 06:33 PM
DFC~ We Do Flyin' Right
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USA, GA, Atlanta
Joined Nov 2008
14,316 Posts
Picked up my SG at SEFF!!!

digging the programming, but I have hardly scratched the surface. Looking forward to getting more into it after I settle back in.

*Big thanks to Joe Smith and all the other guys that lent me advice over the weekend
It was well received and much appreciated.
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Old Apr 29, 2013, 07:47 PM
KK6MQJ
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Joined Sep 2004
13,619 Posts
Quote:
I was particularly appalled by the lack of criticism about the Futaba documentation. (despite having mentioned Malcom's guide! -- afraid of Futaba getting mad at the magazine?)
I guess then you did not really read the article then did you? Next to last paragraph, if that helps you a little.

Familiarizing oneself with a capable and complex radio like the 14SG will inherently have a learning curve attached. Most users rely on the factory documentation to keep this learning curve as short and shallow as possible. While the included instruction manual is comprehensive and covers all of the intricacies of using the 14SG, it is at times difficult to grasp the information that is presented. It would be nice to see the instruction manual written in a less technical style, one that uses makes more use of programming examples and clarifying illustrations.


And at the front end of the article:

PROS
Can receive and display telemetry data
Assign any function to any of the fourteen channels
Alarm conditions can be annunciated using programmable vibration alerts
Additional pair of selector switches offer fast shortcuts to often used functions
Quick select option allows fast access to five favorite models
User configurable custom menu and quick model select menu

CONS
Instruction manual could be written in a more understandable format
Audible alerts are not very loud
Headphone jack not supported out of the box
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Old Apr 29, 2013, 09:46 PM
rip
ripacheco's Avatar
United States, FL, Niceville
Joined Jan 2013
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I did read that section and it is what motivated me to write this post.

given all we have said here about the manual i think that statement minimized a serious problem with this product. It takes help from several groups like this one and asking people a lot of questions to get to learn to program this radio. Had they invested some time writing a good manual you would =not have to go beyond the manual to learn this radio.
I remember my very first computer. It came with a manual so good that took an absolute beginner from writing a 'hello world' program to graphics programming. Why can't Futaba do the same.
Stating that the "format" could be better is minimizing a serious problem. Someone is got to tell Futaba that. we are die-hard users. What about the average new modeler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajora View Post
I guess then you did not really read the article then did you? Next to last paragraph, if that helps you a little.

Familiarizing oneself with a capable and complex radio like the 14SG will inherently have a learning curve attached. Most users rely on the factory documentation to keep this learning curve as short and shallow as possible. While the included instruction manual is comprehensive and covers all of the intricacies of using the 14SG, it is at times difficult to grasp the information that is presented. It would be nice to see the instruction manual written in a less technical style, one that uses makes more use of programming examples and clarifying illustrations.


And at the front end of the article:

PROS
Can receive and display telemetry data
Assign any function to any of the fourteen channels
Alarm conditions can be annunciated using programmable vibration alerts
Additional pair of selector switches offer fast shortcuts to often used functions
Quick select option allows fast access to five favorite models
User configurable custom menu and quick model select menu

CONS
Instruction manual could be written in a more understandable format
Audible alerts are not very loud
Headphone jack not supported out of the box
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Old Apr 29, 2013, 09:55 PM
rip
ripacheco's Avatar
United States, FL, Niceville
Joined Jan 2013
1,651 Posts
More to like about this radio.

My last radio, bought over 20 years ago, didn't have anything more sophisticated than servo reverse. Looking at the way the timers work on the 14SG found a way to accurately calculate how much power i'm using on my motor glider.

With a powered model you keep the motor running 1/3 or 1/2 most of the time and you can say... set a timer for 10 mins then land the thing.

With a motor glider is more complicated. you only run the motor periodically and depending on the thermals you may run it more times than others.

I setup one of the 14SG timers so that it starts a "down" timer every time I push the throttle past 1/3. The timer is set for 4 minutes (which is the max safe run time for this motor with this battery at max power).

As I fly the model everytime I use the throttle the timer counts down. After I had ran the motor for 4 minutes (in my case after a 35 min actual flight time) the alarm goes off... land the model and check that my battery had used about 80%...

perfect!

that will have to do until Futaba starts selling their telemetry "electric fuel gage sensor.."

The more I use this radio the more I like it. Despite of its manual
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Old Apr 29, 2013, 11:12 PM
KK6MQJ
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Joined Sep 2004
13,619 Posts
Quote:
Someone is got to tell Futaba that. we are die-hard users.
I think you just did. And so did the author. Each did it with their own choice of words. The end message is the same. The manual could be better. But then technically, that is just two peoples opinions on it.

Maybe some folks have no problem with the manual ... maybe it is written in such a style that they really prefer and benefit from. If they do not then personally have any problem with the manual, does that mean that they are guilty of some cover-up for not finding fault with it?

If the article completely failed to mention perceived shortcomings in the manual, then you could indict them. But the article DID mention it. And in language no stronger or less direct than the words you use here in the thread. AND the article recommended that Malcolms manual may be useful to help fill perceived gaps.

Steve Kaluf has been monitoring this thread all along and politely helping folks all he can. He undoubtedly has noted the good and bad that folks express here as their opinion on this radio.
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Old Apr 29, 2013, 11:57 PM
Ahh another money pit. :)
Tom B 1956's Avatar
United States, CA, Simi Valley
Joined Feb 2013
559 Posts
Hi all
14sg is a programmers nightmare. If you are just starting out with it being a first radio. I found the manual helps in each individual function. Where I fall way short is combining those functions to get desired results. No examples is hinders you. As an example dual rates by itself is easy and the manual did we'll for that. But I wanted expo at maximum and less expo in less than 100%. And then make that selectable. But for me I love building so this is a project in work. I'm not returning the 14sg. It will do way more and once you figure it out it and it will get easier. Ie the learning curve gets steeper. Just my 2 cents worth. It's the radio you need if you started with an T8J S-FHSS/FHSS radio. That way you receivers are not wasted.

Tom B
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