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Old Oct 21, 2012, 09:11 PM
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United States, NC, Statesville
Joined Aug 2011
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I use to buy everything I could from HK. Now that I have found headsuprc I have been trying to use them for everything possible. They have awesome customer service, very competitive prices, and super cheap/fast shipping. About the only thing I buy outside of US now is the Orange Rx's and batteries. I haven't found anyone in the states that can compete on those yet.
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 09:20 PM
Promoting Model Aviation...
Murocflyer's Avatar
United States, CA, Tehachapi
Joined Nov 2005
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Originally Posted by JoshB View Post
I use to buy everything I could from HK. Now that I have found headsuprc I have been trying to use them for everything possible. They have awesome customer service, very competitive prices, and super cheap/fast shipping. About the only thing I buy outside of US now is the Orange Rx's and batteries. I haven't found anyone in the states that compete on those yet.
Thank You Josh! I appreciate your candid response. And I totally agree with you about HeadsUp RC. Fantastic shop and it is growing very quickly. As a matter of fact, they just moved and opened up a new wharehouse.

And you are right about Orange Rxs. I don't think they are available here in the US. It may have something to do with copyright laws? (maybe? Not sure though)

Frank
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 09:21 PM
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USA, AR, Cave Springs
Joined Apr 2005
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#1) I'm not a charity. In my hobbies I frequently hear local shop-keeps have hissyfits over people buying online. Somehow I should joyfully pay more for something simply because it's coming from a local shop. This is false. If the local shop can provide me with a value-add then I'm happy to pay it.

I also have a high moral character, which is somewhat rare these days. Meaning, if I have to go to the bicycle store to try on new shoes, I will buy the shoes at the bicycle store's price, since I needed their value-add of trying them on. Many shoppers would be tempted to try them on, then go order online for less. What these shoppers fail to understand is that if everyone does this, the local bicycle store will be gone and you will never be able to try on shoes again.

Another value add is knowledge/expertise. My major hobbies over the last 20+ years have been R/C, bicycles, and guns. I have found a handful of R/C shop employees who have been able to contribute knowledge to my modeling. I have found only a couple of bicycle store employees who were able to teach me anything about bicycles (Full disclosure, I worked for several years in a bike shop that is routinely rated in the top 100 shops by bicycle retailer), and I have never ever been impressed by anything I heard in a gun store. The world is changing.. if the local guy wants to stay in business he's going to need to study his butt off and REALLY know his product.

A great example is Horizon and Hobbico, they have a tight grip on MAP and they provide superior engineering and pre and post sales support. Tight MAP keeps the local guy competitive in price and the engineering and support are the value-adds needed to keep my money going to an American company. Horizon especially, gets it.

Now batteries, motors, wire, connectors, ESCs, certain hardware, I buy direct overseas exclusively. I pay 1/2 to 1/3rd of the cost of buying these items in the US. You mentioned ordering servo extensions and having them in a couple of days. In my shop I have (literally) hundreds of servo extensions in various lengths. Hobby King charges $2-$3 for a bag of 10. I have a nice stock on hand for a minimal investment. One single extension at my local hobby shop can be $7.00, for one. I'll happily pay it if I need it right now, but I feel my money is better spent maintaining an inventory of my own.

Where I think many retailers fail is at identifying their unique values and explaining them to the customer. There are people in this very thread who are disappointed with Hobby King's customer service. It is dishonest of them to pretend to provide customer service, they should state up-front that you're buying things for dirt cheap and if it breaks, just throw it away. By the same token the local shops need to stop whining about online businesses and start selling the value that they can provide that online can't match. Usually hands on as well as post sale support. Unfortunately a lot of business owners are older guys and are not able to quickly adjust their business practices.

Finally, to talk about US/China trade relations.. It's REALLY simple... In the US we require manufacturers to follow certain guidelines when it comes to the environment, the workforce, safety, insurance, etc. All we need to do to level the playing field is to say that ANY product sold in the US needs to be manufactured in facilities that conform to the same standards. But then the price is going to go up on everything across the board and people will flip, so I guess it's not that simple.

I'm not paying a premium ONLY because a business is local, American, or otherwise. This is a business transaction. All of the suppliers put their cards on the table and I'll select which one best meets my needs.

-Jay
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 09:25 PM
Promoting Model Aviation...
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United States, CA, Tehachapi
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Very well put Jay, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Frank
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 09:44 PM
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United States, NC, Statesville
Joined Aug 2011
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Originally Posted by Murocflyer View Post
Thank You Josh! I appreciate your candid response. And I totally agree with you about HeadsUp RC. Fantastic shop and it is growing very quickly. As a matter of fact, they just moved and opened up a new wharehouse.

And you are right about Orange Rxs. I don't think they are available here in the US. It may have something to do with copyright laws? (maybe? Not sure though)

Frank
I'm glad we have such a great shop in the US that carries so much stuff and at great prices. I ordered props and parts from them on Wed of last week and had them Friday for $2 shipping. Don't get much better then that. : )


Like others have said on some things its very hard for me swallow paying x amount for something when I can wait a few days and have it for a lesser x amount. I do understand that some things are naturally going to be higher here due to laws and standards, but when it comes to connectors, wires, small parts, there is only so much you can expect someone to pay for it. If our government would praise and reward the small businesses in this country more the prices would be more competitive and everyone here would benefit more. The other bad part is that a big portion of everything in this hobby comes from overseas at some point. Even a part from HH says made in china on it.
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 09:53 PM
The Prez....... again
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United States, IA, Rockwell
Joined Jul 2011
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Living where I do puts me almost smack dab in the middle between Des Moines, Ia and Minneapolis/St. Paul MN, These two cities host my LHS (brick and mortar). I do on occasion buy on line but 95% of my purchases go to the only LHS in Des, Moines. I get good service, a wealth of knowledge and the prices are in line with the on line shopping prices.

I find many do not figure the cost of shipping into the cost of their purchase. If you do figure the shipping, the price is not that far off the LHS. Now you do have to figure your driving costs, but If you take your significant other shopping often enough.........

Ken
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 09:56 PM
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Joined Sep 2012
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Well, I'm thinking of getting out of the hobby and going back to full scale (as in, you sit in and fly it) for one reason: HobbyKing.... which I might add practically owns this site!

Their ESC's claim a 14 mos. warranty but they want a burnt out unit either sent back OR photo documentation and on top of this, when I produced a video of one ESC blowing up and posted the video on their site.... well wouldn't ya know it.... they played DUMB, requesting over and over I email videos or photos of ESC exploding. If you do use their return mailing address for anything, be sure to Google Map the address and you'll see it's an empty alleyway in Bum-F'd China somewhere! Really, it's a deadend road!

That outfit has insulted my intelligence beyond belief! They cater to newbies, who foolishly post raves on products simply to get a discount or because it was "shipped quickly"? NO.... wrong..... USE the item at least 3 weeks and 8 out of 10 times, it will be dead! If you request email notification on an out of stock item, you will get DOZENS of emails for said item once it arrives, I find their tactics extremely irritating and disrespectful.

Now, I am getting CATALOGS at my mailing address from China and the frequency rivals that of Discover card offers in my mail EVERY 3 days! YES..... every THREE days!

But I have yet to find an American distributor or maker of small outrunners or for that matter, props that don't splatter apart on grass. So, it's back to HK for a 10 or 24 gram outrunner and the associated JUNK GWS props..... over and over and over.... like a damn pack of cigarettes! I tell ya, it's easier to stay home and use a simulator!

Oh and let's not forget the consumer treadmill of introducing 2.4GHz radio gear, the likes of which was glitchy as hell when in first came out and still is to this day. Ditto the Deans connectors, which were changed to that XT60 connector.... which of course went out of stock for 3 months..... and ALL their Lipo's they were shipping had XT60's on them. You could not buy the mate for it for 3 months because HK went out of stock!

Like I said, that outfit BUGS the hell out of me and they know they can get away with it because you can't find a small 10 gram outrunner anywhere else on the planet, unless you start cannibalizing old CD-Rom computer drives yourself and winding your own stators (which I myself have started doing) plus your LHS won't have it, the props or the ESCs! HobbyTown USA stocks NO inventory for homemade foamie people. Why? No money in it!
Plus the stuff disintegrates too easily and.... off we go for MORE GWS toothpicks!
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 10:02 PM
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As for New "Warehouse" by these fly-by-night outfits.... that could easily be a garage sized unit at a U-store place, take it with a grain of salt people.

If I wasn't crippled, I'd be off in the Peace Corp to be honest! You've flown one piece of foam or made a whirring noise, you've done all of them.
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 10:06 PM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Latvia, Ventspils pilsēta, Ventspils
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Originally Posted by Cheesehead View Post
Most of these shops are primarily reselling Hobbyking stuff. ..............
HK in fact are producers of very little of their own ... as they are re-badgers and resellers themselves.

Most of their gear can be identified as to true origin quite easily.

Nigel
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 10:11 PM
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United States, TX, Austin
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Originally Posted by JoshB View Post
If our government would praise and reward the small businesses in this country more the prices would be more competitive and everyone here would benefit more. The other bad part is that a big portion of everything in this hobby comes from overseas at some point. Even a part from HH says made in china on it.
Yeah, well if we could get people in govt. who weren't soulless fronts bought by corporate America to begin with, maybe it could revert back to a semi-decent country but NO.... it's all about quick money, turning it into toilet paper a.s.a.p. by that swine Bernanke, cell phones that text and your AAPL stock holdings (which got clobbered last week, thank God!) or cruising down to the grocer's for a case of Mountain Dew.

DUMB! Wait until after the election, you'll see it's the same bought-and-paid-for nonsense as the last 4 years and the 8 idiotic ones before that.

The country sold it's soul a LONG time ago.
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
HK in fact are producers of very little of their own ... as they are re-badgers and resellers themselves.

Most of their gear can be identified as to true origin quite easily.

Nigel
He's right though! Go on many sites or even Ebay and you'll see the Plush ESC's or that 10gram outrunner I mentioned with the prices doubled from Hobbycity's site! Pisses me off Ebay suckers are this stupid!
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 10:31 PM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Latvia, Ventspils pilsēta, Ventspils
Joined Jan 2010
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Originally Posted by CyberJay View Post
#1) I'm not a charity. In my hobbies I frequently hear local shop-keeps have hissyfits over people buying online. Somehow I should joyfully pay more for something simply because it's coming from a local shop. This is false. If the local shop can provide me with a value-add then I'm happy to pay it.
Same for me ... doesn't matter where you live - local support is local support.

Quote:
I also have a high moral character, which is somewhat rare these days. Meaning, if I have to go to the bicycle store to try on new shoes, I will buy the shoes at the bicycle store's price, since I needed their value-add of trying them on. Many shoppers would be tempted to try them on, then go order online for less. What these shoppers fail to understand is that if everyone does this, the local bicycle store will be gone and you will never be able to try on shoes again.
Very very true and sadly all too common.

Quote:
Another value add is knowledge/expertise. My major hobbies over the last 20+ years have been R/C, bicycles, and guns. I have found a handful of R/C shop employees who have been able to contribute knowledge to my modeling.
Unfortunately shop-keepers now employ students and others at lower wages ... most who have no knowledge of product being sold.

Quote:
if the local guy wants to stay in business he's going to need to study his butt off and REALLY know his product.
But who's going to pay ? Already we see that customer will not pay the premium involved. People do not have as much disposable income as before .. so they spend their dollar where they feel they get more .. and usually that means online buying a bag of items for similar price as a single item from local shop.

Quote:
A great example is Horizon and Hobbico, they have a tight grip on MAP and they provide superior engineering and pre and post sales support. Tight MAP keeps the local guy competitive in price and the engineering and support are the value-adds needed to keep my money going to an American company. Horizon especially, gets it.
Not exactly a local small company is it though ... and I wonder how much foreign capital is injected / invested there to maintain that ? Plus of course how much of their product is actually US produced ? Spektrum certainly isn't.

Quote:
.......... Unfortunately a lot of business owners are older guys and are not able to quickly adjust their business practices.
Maybe - but as I see it major problems are : a) unable to afford to have the stock that we as modellers would like to see, b) costs of running a shop and staff - means cheaper staff who often have no knowledge of the product, c) online often are re-directors of product from factory to buyer, often not carrying the stock as req'd by a shop ... huge savings against inventory based. No way a shop can compete with that.

Quote:
Finally, to talk about US/China trade relations.. It's REALLY simple... In the US we require manufacturers to follow certain guidelines when it comes to the environment, the workforce, safety, insurance, etc. All we need to do to level the playing field is to say that ANY product sold in the US needs to be manufactured in facilities that conform to the same standards. But then the price is going to go up on everything across the board and people will flip, so I guess it's not that simple.
Before doing that - you would have to convince the US and other western companies who invest / transferred production to Chinese factorys to return to domestic soil ...

Nigel
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 10:31 PM
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 10:47 PM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
solentlife's Avatar
Latvia, Ventspils pilsēta, Ventspils
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Originally Posted by XtalHunt View Post
He's right though! Go on many sites or even Ebay and you'll see the Plush ESC's or that 10gram outrunner I mentioned with the prices doubled from Hobbycity's site! Pisses me off Ebay suckers are this stupid!
Officially HK does not sell on Ebay .... I have that in writing.

What happens as I understand it ... some 'enterprising' people have realised that many buy on ebay not studying alternative supply. Plus the inevitable backorder situation at HK .... they buy in and then sell on ebay.

The number of times I've looked at something on ebay and then checked against regular supplier or high-street and found same article cheaper than ebay ... I put it down to two things ... greed on part of seller and auction fever / stupidity on part of buyer.

If I bid on ebay - I use a proxy bidding system that I set a max figure and then that bids the next increment just a few secs before auction ends ....... a) that max bid is set at below alternative suppliers, b) if I win - it defeats the scum tactics of the ebayer, c) it does not fuel the bidding war the seller and ebay want.

Back to HK .... as far as I can tell even their 'in-house' stuff is 3rd party production ...

Nigel
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 10:53 PM
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United States, ID, Burley
Joined Mar 2012
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Originally Posted by Murocflyer View Post
No. Not everything comes from China. Have a look here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1751051

And no reason to drive anywhere. I can shop at over 350 stores in my boxer shorts and have stuff delivered right to my door. See here for those 350 plus stores. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1753265

Isn't that awesome?

Frank
bookmarked and i WILL check them out. Thanks for the lists
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