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Old Jan 19, 2013, 06:28 PM
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You are lucky because this won't happen to me, way too expensive to buy small electric parts.

Edmond
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 07:32 PM
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economics 101 - the foundation of democracy - Free trade is a policy by which a government does not discriminate against imports or interfere with exports by applying tariffs (to imports) or subsidies (to exports) or quotas. According to the law of comparative advantage, the policy permits trading partners mutual gains from trade of goods and services.

Protectionism is the economic policy of restraining trade between states through methods such as tariffs on imported goods, restrictive quotas, and a variety of other government regulations designed to allow (according to proponents) "fair competition" between imports and goods and services produced domestically.

Most mainstream economists agree that protectionism is harmful in that its costs outweigh the benefits and that it impedes economic growth. Economics Nobel prize winner and trade theorist Paul Krugman once stated, "If there were an Economist's Creed, it would surely contain the affirmations 'I understand the Principle of Comparative Advantage' and 'I advocate Free Trade'."

Compare the closed economies of North Korea VS the the USA.
To keep variables at the minimum, compare China's present economy to just a few years ago when it was was closely regulated.

Buying locally is the worst thing you can do in the long-term. It is the most un-American thing you can do since the USA is based on democracy, capitalism and a free-market economy. Just open ANY 1st year business/economics textbook.

eco101

Why buy foreign Mega motors when you can buy American Neu motors?
Why buy Futaba when you can buy Spektrum (fyi - both are made in China)?
etc.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 11:16 PM
The END.....ha!
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Australia, SA, Edinburgh
Joined Aug 2009
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I still think you will find that everyone still buys locally but they also choose to buy online from overseas aswell. I often buy locally, locally online and OS online, I weigh up a lot of factors including availability and price. I never make a purchasing decision based on what I may or may not perceive it does for my local economy, that is simply never a factor.

Mark
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by rcfisherman View Post
economics 101 - the foundation of democracy - Free trade is a policy by which a government does not discriminate against imports or interfere with exports by applying tariffs (to imports) or subsidies (to exports) or quotas. According to the law of comparative advantage, the policy permits trading partners mutual gains from trade of goods and services.

Protectionism is the economic policy of restraining trade between states through methods such as tariffs on imported goods, restrictive quotas, and a variety of other government regulations designed to allow (according to proponents) "fair competition" between imports and goods and services produced domestically.

Most mainstream economists agree that protectionism is harmful in that its costs outweigh the benefits and that it impedes economic growth. Economics Nobel prize winner and trade theorist Paul Krugman once stated, "If there were an Economist's Creed, it would surely contain the affirmations 'I understand the Principle of Comparative Advantage' and 'I advocate Free Trade'."

Compare the closed economies of North Korea VS the the USA.
To keep variables at the minimum, compare China's present economy to just a few years ago when it was was closely regulated.

Buying locally is the worst thing you can do in the long-term. It is the most un-American thing you can do since the USA is based on democracy, capitalism and a free-market economy. Just open ANY 1st year business/economics textbook.

eco101

Why buy foreign Mega motors when you can buy American Neu motors?
Why buy Futaba when you can buy Spektrum (fyi - both are made in China)?
etc.
buying locally does not equate to opposing free trade/closed economy. even buying only local manufactured goods does not equate to opposing free trade/closed economy. that is merely consumer preference and not protectionist policy.

protectionism is regulation. preferring to buy locally is simply demand.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
This could be and is likely the prelude to the slow decline of China and move to another location of cheap manufacturing. And guess who will be major funders / instigators of that move ? Western companies who want to continue their advantage in using cheap labour areas.

Nigel
Another location? Which country would be cheaper that China? I think it is more to do with the state of the global economy.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 03:20 AM
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I went to my LHS and bought 2 items for $19. A Y Lead for $15 and a JST Male plug for $4.

What a rip off!
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 03:46 AM
Teddy Ong
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My LHS sells Y lead for 8$ and JST for 2$. Half as yours, but still quite a profit margin.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by rcfisherman View Post
economics 101 - the foundation of democracy - Free trade is a policy ...
You forgot the part where most economists would have us abolish all income tax breaks (mortgage, student loan interest, investment tax deferments), oh and set the corporate tax rate to ZERO...

Good economics is nothing like good democracy. Idealized good economics is more than happy to let any major industry die no matter the human consequences. I love my Planet Money podcast, but even they agree their ideas are whack in the real world.

Having said that, do what you all want. Everyone here is right in their own eyes. My preferences have changed as I see local shops shrink to support the unending wave of 16 year olds running buggies and TRex 450's... Makes sense for them; have you seen the size of a Great Planes ARF box lately?
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 08:24 AM
no discrimination, I crash all
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Originally Posted by jasmine2501 View Post
I was on my phone and no way did I want to say what I really think it would have taken hours to type on the phone, in spite of it being a better Android type phone

I buy from my LHS as much as possible. I enjoy going there sometimes even when I don't need anything. That's why I think a Hobby-Coffee-Shop-With-Airfield would be such a great idea - people would quit their jobs to hang out in my dream hobby shop

I don't get into the politics of the issue too much, but I do like to support my local people. In today's world it's far too easy to think of yourself as an island - but we still live in villages! That guy running the hobby shop might not be a nice guy, but he's part of your village, and what happens to his life affects all of us, often in ways too complex to understand. So, my principle is basically "tie goes to the LHS" - because the interests of the consumer are equally important as the interests of the business owners who serve them.

A lot of you know by now that for me it's about the total experience, and not just about getting the lowest price for the thing that meets my needs. I put a high value on my time, so customer service problems and product usage issues are a big deal to me. I'm trying to get the best total experience value I can - and in most cases I get that from the LHS - both because they are local, and because they tend to carry higher quality products.

However, I do order from HobbyKing sometimes - usually it's generic stuff like LED strips or plugs or wires or helicopters... hehe... but if the HK price isn't significantly better on something, I prefer the higher quality product at the higher price purchased locally.

So note... I'm not saying go to your LHS out of some duty to your community, I'm saying go there if you can get the best experience there, but if it's close, go to your LHS.
Just ran across this. The coffee, shop, field idea would be awesome. Have large viewing area inside (window,video feed) to eat and relax in comfort while viewing. Could have a seperate area just for beginners and maybe young kids so moms could watch. Have sims inside (charge 30 minute use rates). Sim then selling models to take outside. Have area just for building. I want to hang out here.


The ideas just keep rolling
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 10:39 AM
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I loved our LHS they were always there for you with a smile on their face and a helping hand, when you needed it but in the last few years they have taken a hit. Money has dried up, people don’t have a lot of extra cash for hobbies and so the LHS owner took down his sign and closed the door. You don’t know how much you need them till they are gone. Online parts are ok but having a place for people to gather and talk over there problems with other molders and compare fixes and ways of repairing aircraft now that’s what a hobby shop is all about.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Vince77 View Post
You forgot the part where most economists would have us abolish all income tax breaks (mortgage, student loan interest, investment tax deferments), oh and set the corporate tax rate to ZERO...

Good economics is nothing like good democracy. Idealized good economics is more than happy to let any major industry die no matter the human consequences. I love my Planet Money podcast, but even they agree their ideas are whack in the real world.

Having said that, do what you all want. Everyone here is right in their own eyes. My preferences have changed as I see local shops shrink to support the unending wave of 16 year olds running buggies and TRex 450's... Makes sense for them; have you seen the size of a Great Planes ARF box lately?
i disagree on the part about economists wanting to abolish tax breaks and let corporate rates go to zero. economics would typically deal with private investment through the interest rate at which companies borrow money. tax focus in economics is typically on consumers. allowing them more tax breaks increases their disposable income thereby increasing the likelihood of increased consumption spending.

however, as you said, preference is what matters. whatever and wherever people want to buy makes the market and they decide what benefit they get from making that purchase. one cannot say it is uneconomic that people want to buy at an LHS rather than from any other source.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ncsky View Post
Just ran across this. The coffee, shop, field idea would be awesome. Have large viewing area inside (window,video feed) to eat and relax in comfort while viewing. Could have a seperate area just for beginners and maybe young kids so moms could watch. Have sims inside (charge 30 minute use rates). Sim then selling models to take outside. Have area just for building. I want to hang out here.


The ideas just keep rolling
We are just looking for a location and some investors to get it going. I'm looking at possibly the Austin, TX area, or in between Dallas and Ft. Worth somewhere. Colorado Springs is a possibility too.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 12:07 PM
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To the question at the start of this thread - I do if they have what I need - 100% of the time. But that is getting tougher by the day. I did have two (more or less) local hobby shops. The closest one geared almost exclusively to gas and fuel rc planes so it was seldom they ever had what I needed in stock. The other was super but a bit further away but I never hesitated to drive the 23 miles to pick up whatever I needed. But just recently the close one that seldom had what I needed announced it was closing and the second apparently had some disagreements with some new policies at HH which has caused them to seek out new vendors. My entire fleet (large) with 2 exceptions are HH products and they are my favorite supplier, but now I have no local outlet for their new products or parts for their old products which has made shopping locally almost a thing of the past. Thus far this has had the following results -- 1. I have saved a bunch of money as I was prone to purchasing almost everything new HH came out with, 2. lhs has lost a bunch of sales from me and other local electric flyers, 3. I have had to start looking to mail order for what I need (which I hate - I want to see what I'm buying) so I'm buying less overall and 4. As long as I'm mail order (internet) shopping anyway, I pay more attention to pricing and go for the lesser cost without regard to whether it is US or abroad. Also, HH has lost numerous sales from me and several close friends also due to the "pet store type purchases" that we are not making. In case some don't understand, this is when you go to the lhs for a $2 prop and this $300 plane that someone just came out with nuzzles up to your leg and begs you to take it home and you know the rest of the story. It's much easier to resist these types of purchases at home in front of the computer when you know you can think it over better and purchase it later if you decide without having to drive back to the hobby shop.
I want my lhs back like it was and the idea above of a coffee shop/hobby shop/flying field sounds like my dream spot - where is the closest one?
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 01:21 PM
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The closest shop to me is about 30 minutes away.

My mailbox is downstairs. On a good day, I don't even need shoes.

Then add in that the local shop is more expensive than online, often by a lot, and that they often steer towards particular brands. ("You want a what? How about a nice Futaba...").

Then add in that the stuff at the hobby shops is often coming out of the exact same Chinese factory that the bargain sellers get it from. And the sales tax that I'm going to pay at the local shop.

And how much does that purchase actually effect my local economy? Not much at all. The local shop, even buying the same Chinese products in bulk, is forced to keep markups low to be competitive with the wholesalers. So I'm not spending $50 at the local shop, I'm spending TWO to TEN. The rest is getting shipped right back to China, do not pass go, do not make a stop in the local economy.

Bring back American manufacturing. Put the higher cost on the other guys for a change, and source high quality locally made goods. Then the higher cost will actually pay for something, and be kept in your local economy. Only problem there is that the higher cost is a MUCH higher cost due to outdated manufacturing technology and higher labor price.

It's okay, we're about to hit the era where we'll all be building our copters on our 3D printers at home, and then we can have the argument over whether we should buy our printer refills from America or China.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 01:53 PM
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My local hobby shop is supporting a family of four, and two part-timers. THAT is the economic impact of shopping locally and don't you forget it.
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