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Old Nov 18, 2012, 07:29 PM
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Off Topic,

But while I'm waiting for my (finally shipped) HK board to arrive, is there any reason this board could not be used to run MP on a traditional Single Rotor Heli? I have a few of those taking up space. If yes, this might be a good reason to order a few more boards, and blow the dust off those old helis.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 09:27 AM
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Off Topic,

But while I'm waiting for my (finally shipped) HK board to arrive, is there any reason this board could not be used to run MP on a traditional Single Rotor Heli? I have a few of those taking up space. If yes, this might be a good reason to order a few more boards, and blow the dust off those old helis.
If either MWii or MP NG support it then there is no reason it can't be done with the HK Mega or any of the other Mega boards.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 09:28 AM
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I received some more new toys today http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=242
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 09:39 AM
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I received some more new toys today http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=242
You are one lucky rcpilot!!!!!
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:01 PM
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Hey sorry for the dumb question...but what is difference between the rctimer crius AIOP UAV kit and The rctimer APM 2.5 UAV kit except for the 16MB onboard dataflash on the apm2.5 for datalogging and also an additional atmega 32u chip(for what????)... (Atmel's ATMEGA2560-16AU and ATMEGA32U-2 chips for processing and usb functions respectively.).....we have a usb connection on the Crius board too....and what's with the processing functions...can this board be used to communicate with the processing IDE...I am a bit confused here...jabram..you have both the boards can you please shed some light on this...
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:22 PM
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Hi folks,

I am following this thread for a while now, thanks jabram & witespy for your excellent posts and reviews..

However, I am asking myselves similar questions as Akcopter. Could somebody probably conclude in brief the bottomlines ? So this is what I cant figure out..

1. Whats the exact difference from witespys 2.0 to 3.0 version, and what makes this board better than the 2.0 version or a crius aiop ?

2. Then you came up with the Arduflyer2.5 Board.. Could you probably point out in brief the difference to the aiop or witespy mega ? Can you run MWC or Megapirate on it ?

3. What should I pick ? From all I have read in other posts and forums it seems like the ardu2.5 and aiop or witespy is the best you can get for a good price unless you spend tons of money for the genuine mk...

I kind of tend to the aiop, since there is tons of threads and support out there. The only thing that keeps me away form getting it is that jabram reported about its unsteady flight... If you watch some aiop videos, most of them are not very steady in position hold mode and toggle up and down as well as left and right....

I hope you guys can help me (and probably lots of others) to take the right decision...

Thanks

mopedcrosser
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Akcopter View Post
Hey sorry for the dumb question...but what is difference between the rctimer crius AIOP UAV kit and The rctimer APM 2.5 UAV kit except for the 16MB onboard dataflash on the apm2.5 for datalogging and also an additional atmega 32u chip(for what????)... (Atmel's ATMEGA2560-16AU and ATMEGA32U-2 chips for processing and usb functions respectively.).....we have a usb connection on the Crius board too....and what's with the processing functions...can this board be used to communicate with the processing IDE...I am a bit confused here...jabram..you have both the boards can you please shed some light on this...
I only got it today, sure I have set it up and bench tested it, currently digesting the schematics [circuit diagram], shouldn't complain at least there are accurate schematics and PCB files instead of guessing things.

The second processor ATMEGA32U2 is not such a dumb idea, it replaces the usual USB chip about the same size and cost plus since it is a fully fledged Micro controller which also handles USB it seems to be used to decode PPM radio input, which is a significant freeing up the ATMEGA2560 from having to do it. Wish they did single wire DSM2 and DSMX radio input instead.

So far I do like the board which IMHO is in a different league to my CRIUS AIOP V1 [did I mention I don't like thr AIOP :-)]

Lots of good extras on the ArduFlyer which most people will not notice but may one day be thankful for, like DC input power supply reverse polarity protection, current limiting protection on all PWM inputs and all PWM outputs, which will prevent damaging I/O ports on the ATMEGA2560.

Many options which can be enabled or disabled by cutting traces or shorting traces with a solder blob, one nice feature is being able to disable the on-board magnetometer and connect an external magnetometer so one should be able to put the GPS and magnetometer further away from all the electrically noisy ESC wiring just like NAZA does with GPS and magnetometer up on a stick.

The bundle with your choice of 900mHz or 433 MHz 3DRadio and that excellent CN-06 V2.0 GPS I think is good value, RCTimer version of 3DRadio is in fact better than my genuine 3DRadio because their ground station has a USB connector and FTDI USB to serial on the board whereas my genuine 3DRadio I purchased earlier for a lot more has a great big long FTDI cable which is not very convenient. ArduFlyer is 100% compatible [same PCB different badge on it] with ArduPilot so everything works 100% in accordance with the the ArduCopter documentation including logging.

In summary ArduFlyer has a lot of pros and I have yet to find one con. I am extremely finicky with electronic design in case you didn't already know, I don't know if I have an exceptional barometer on mine, it uses the newer stainless steel barometer and the one I have works really well, my AeroQuad32 board has the same stainless steel barometer but that one did not work better than the one on the HK Mega.

I have not tested the new toy on a frame as I am moving and have limited time and tools with me right now.

Bottom line is what are your requirements and what is your budget, right now there are so many choices of good FC at every price point.

It may seem odd to some to see me buying all these different FC but I would rather try them myself and chalk the expense up to experience than to find out much later that A was better than B and I should have been using it much earlier, I will be using more than one frame so a few of these FCs will have permanent homes, others will sit and collect dust.

Sorry for the short reply
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:10 PM
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@mopedcrosser

That stability in position hold depends A LOT on how much time that person has put into removing all vibration and reducing electrical noise AND accurate effective PID fine tuning AND do they know what they are doing, you and I have no way to gauge any of that from watching a video.

I suspect my particular AIOP is not a good one to go by as I suspect I was unlucky and have landed a mix of not so good sensors on MY AIOP, others seem to be doing fine with the AIOP. I would rather have the ArduFlyer than AIOP mainly because of the connectors and other small things that [my personal likes and dislikes] that annoy ME about the AIOP hardware design.

The Mega 2 and Mega 2.5 are better because they have the newer sensors and can be purchased without a GPS which means you can combine them with an inexpensive CRIUS CN-06 V2.0 [not V1] GPS which I find is an excellent GPS, I now have 3 x CN-06 V 2.0 GPS and they consistently significantly outperform the MTK3329 and dearer Crius extend board with LEA-6H and also the OpenPilot GPS V8.

Edit:
Here is a good example of someone who has patience getting PID adjustments just right, no, it is not a joke, watch the whole video and you will see,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=I8RN8wMnQpg
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:34 PM
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;-) This is great.. good job !

So is the ArduFlyer a 32bit FC ? RC Timer doesnīt say anything about that... As far as I was able to figure out it uses the ArduCopter Software which looks kind of good.. and is in fact megapirateng, correct ?

Do you think itīs possible to use MWC on it ? Probably not because of the 2 Processor design right ?

Iīll proably go for the Arduflyer... itīs 50 bucks more, but its not only you saying that it is a different league.. Whats again the change from the WS HK mega 2.0 to 3.0 ? Different sensors ?

Thanks
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mopedcrosser View Post
;-) This is great.. good job !

So is the ArduFlyer a 32bit FC ? RC Timer doesnīt say anything about that... As far as I was able to figure out it uses the ArduCopter Software which looks kind of good.. and is in fact megapirateng, correct ?

Do you think itīs possible to use MWC on it ? Probably not because of the 2 Processor design right ?

Iīll proably go for the Arduflyer... itīs 50 bucks more, but its not only you saying that it is a different league.. Whats again the change from the WS HK mega 2.0 to 3.0 ? Different sensors ?

Thanks
50$ more iz double price compares to HK board ...

If the code is not fully open and fully supported for the 2 cpu board, it can very useless

My guess is that the 2nd cpu, is not only a usb adapter, but most probably is the cpu in charge for logging ...

Anyhow for logging in my view use a microSD would have been a better option

The HK board plus a OpenLog would cost less and do more

Anyhow ... multiple cpu boards is always something interesting



Edit: PPM decode cost almost nothing in cpu power ... and much less then read 8 or 5 independent channel
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mopedcrosser View Post
;-) This is great.. good job !

So is the ArduFlyer a 32bit FC ? RC Timer doesnīt say anything about that... As far as I was able to figure out it uses the ArduCopter Software which looks kind of good.. and is in fact megapirateng, correct ?

Do you think itīs possible to use MWC on it ? Probably not because of the 2 Processor design right ?

Iīll proably go for the Arduflyer... itīs 50 bucks more, but its not only you saying that it is a different league.. Whats again the change from the WS HK mega 2.0 to 3.0 ? Different sensors ?

Thanks
I don't know how you misunderstood. the ArduFlyer and the real APM 2.5 and HK Mega and mega 2.0 and 2.5 are ALL using 8 bi ATMEGA2560.

I did not say the ARduFlyer is 32 bit simply because it is NOT, it is 8 bit ATMEGA2560 same as HK mega and same as Mega 2.0 and 2.5.

I have no idea if it runs MWC, I doubt it .

That is irony for you, this thread was started because people wanted to run ArduCopter MP NG on the HK Mega board instead of MWii

The change from original HK to mega 2.0 and mega 2.5 is newer sensors,

What I meant by in a different league is not some sudden massive improvement in performance, no that's not it.

I mean the actual APM 2.5 hardware design of the PCB itself, incorporating things that are the first things left out when a board is made to a lower price point, things like DC input reverse polarity protection VERY IMPORTANT, Pico fuses, current limiting of all PWM inputs and outputs, beefed up i2c, numerous link options well planned into the future for example the ability to EASILY use an external magnetometer and not worry about a longer i2c cable because the i2c is already beefed up etc, it a long list of small but significant changes which you may never notice until you need them or you may not notice them even when they save the board because you connect the DC input backwards or make a wiring mistake or a crash shorts something out.

The flash datalogging was done by APM because SD cards used for logging have problems in a multicopter, bad connections, being ejected at the worst time, do a search and you will quickly see it is a real problem, flash chip solves that.

ArduFlyer is 100% exact down to the last trace on the board APM 2.5 only the logo printed on the PCB is the only difference. RCTimer haven't changed anything other than the Logo and more importantly they did not leave anything out.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 03:08 AM
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@jabram. Mate would you stop adding new Fc's to the mix. I've got 5 parcels on the way already ha ha ;-)
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jabram View Post
I don't know how you misunderstood. the ArduFlyer and the real APM 2.5 and HK Mega and mega 2.0 and 2.5 are ALL using 8 bi ATMEGA2560.

I did not say the ARduFlyer is 32 bit simply because it is NOT, it is 8 bit ATMEGA2560 same as HK mega and same as Mega 2.0 and 2.5.

I have no idea if it runs MWC, I doubt it .

That is irony for you, this thread was started because people wanted to run ArduCopter MP NG on the HK Mega board instead of MWii

The change from original HK to mega 2.0 and mega 2.5 is newer sensors,

What I meant by in a different league is not some sudden massive improvement in performance, no that's not it.

I mean the actual APM 2.5 hardware design of the PCB itself, incorporating things that are the first things left out when a board is made to a lower price point, things like DC input reverse polarity protection VERY IMPORTANT, Pico fuses, current limiting of all PWM inputs and outputs, beefed up i2c, numerous link options well planned into the future for example the ability to EASILY use an external magnetometer and not worry about a longer i2c cable because the i2c is already beefed up etc, it a long list of small but significant changes which you may never notice until you need them or you may not notice them even when they save the board because you connect the DC input backwards or make a wiring mistake or a crash shorts something out.

The flash datalogging was done by APM because SD cards used for logging have problems in a multicopter, bad connections, being ejected at the worst time, do a search and you will quickly see it is a real problem, flash chip solves that.

ArduFlyer is 100% exact down to the last trace on the board APM 2.5 only the logo printed on the PCB is the only difference. RCTimer haven't changed anything other than the Logo and more importantly they did not leave anything out.
MicroSD has big advantage that can be load on a PC - Tablet - Smartphone in no time an no USB-Serial needed.

I use OpenLog and #11 camera ... both use microSD ... and never got any issue on ejected card ... in case .. just a little bit of transparent tape and the problem is solved.

I think it is more a economical reason ... solder a microSD slot, and control microSD, is maybe as expensive as a little 16Mbit chip



ps: if a board get more complicated and more expensive ... I think the best board around is the GluonPilot board, with open source ... power by a more powerfully 16bit CPU, and with open source based on RTOS instead of "amateur" Arduino

pps: Anyhow .. this is a HK thread about the HK cheap board .. let's not get OT with board that have not much to do with this one ... since ... going OT speaking about other board ... it will be an endless discussion.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 05:47 AM
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@jabram. Mate would you stop adding new Fc's to the mix. I've got 5 parcels on the way already ha ha ;-)
Are you sure you don't want to read all about 6 and 7
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 06:07 AM
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I have even heard that the APM2.5 has a failsafe that will be handled by the secondary MCU...but as discussed earlier there are some reciever's which keep sending the last acquired signal even after the rc link is lost which makes it very difficult for the FC to decide if the RC link has been broken....so I guess the secondary mcu wont be usefull in that scenario and also....logging can be achieved as elm suggested ....so I dont see a real need but anyways... the apm 2.5 was created to run a dedicated Ardupilot firmware....while the HK mega and all others such boards have been designed to run MPNG as well as Multiwii...I doubt if Multiwii can be run on the APM2.5....
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