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Old Oct 10, 2012, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince Herman View Post
I look at that picture and can't help saying "Flight con, I can't hold it! She's breaking up, she's break-"
No flight con, it was for real, all caught on video. J.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 04:48 PM
I think I'm inverted. Maybe.
acetech09's Avatar
United States, CA, Pacifica
Joined Apr 2012
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If only I had a car big enough to hold that...
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 10:45 PM
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Wingman26's Avatar
Oklahoma
Joined Aug 2008
669 Posts
You would think they would have gotten a more powerful transmitter, or at least a power booster for the one they had. All the money they spent and they really weren't that well prepared, slow chase plane, stock off the shelf RC system.
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 09:07 PM
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United States, MA, Sturbridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acetech09 View Post
Well, the guy was holding a futaba Tx as the plane went down...
Lockout!
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 09:09 PM
I think I'm inverted. Maybe.
acetech09's Avatar
United States, CA, Pacifica
Joined Apr 2012
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No - that happens only if you use Spektrum


(sarcasm - been spektrum user for years, no issues)
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 09:18 PM
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Thomas B's Avatar
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jun 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLCPilot View Post
I did NOT see the program, but suspect the descent was mearly autopilot controlled. With "heading hold" for lateral navigation and "-1000fpm" for vertical navigation it would be fairly easy to guide a plane to a desired spot. It would be MUCH simpler than setting up a 727 for remote control with a budget.

Cheers!

SLCPilot
You might think that, but that is not how they did it....
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 12:58 AM
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Usta Bee's Avatar
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Don't forget this too:

http://www.airforce-magazine.com/Mag...10bombers.aspx
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 07:51 AM
Danish? Don't U eat that??
DKChris's Avatar
Denmark
Joined Jan 2008
233 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by acetech09 View Post
A little data:
Span 9,6m
Chord 1,6m
Winge area 15m2 or 1504 dm2
Wing load 16,6g/dm2
Fuse length 7,2m
Stab span 300cm and chord 80cm
Materials: Mainly thin pine stripwood for fuse edges and wing spar caps, a lot of styrofoam and about a mile of 2" packing tape.


Calculated stallspeed 17km/h

AUW: not stated, but calculated from wing area/load just below 25kg.

First maiden flight ended in a crash induced by too little wing incidence, that broke the front end of the fuse apart - a new fuse was manufactured in a matter of a couple of hours, resulting in this second maiden flight. Construction, maiden, rebuild and remaiden all occurred within a 3 day meet.....
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by acetech09 View Post
bloody great acheivement
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 04:26 PM
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Irish Steve's Avatar
Ireland, Meath, Ashbourne
Joined Jul 2010
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OK, re the 727, as I watched the program last night. It was radio controlled, the radio took over and the crew left, which was the plan. What wasn't in the plan was the chase plane going unservicable with a fuel pump failure, which left them between a rock and a hard place, as their permit from the Mexican Government for the crash test was very close to expiring, they'd not been able to fly on the planned day due to high winds making the parachute side of it too dangerous, so they had to use the 337 chase plane, which was marginal performance speed wise, or not fly the crash test, as there was no way to repair the faster chase plane in time, and no further delay option.

Having watched it, the scientists will be learning subtle facts for a long time to come, and we may or may not get to hear about them, what we saw on the programme last night was the raw facts, and some of the specifics of what happened to the test dummies, things like that, but the finer details will only come out with time and detailed analysis of the end results, which hopefully will lead to safer aircraft in the longer term.

In some respects, it's a pity they couldn't use a more modern twin low wing with wing mounted engines, as the impact forces would probably have been very different, if for no other reason than that the mass of thing like engines is in a completely different location, and would have acted very differently. If nothing else, the fire crew would not have been needed to kill an engine on a 737/320 type aircraft, the crash would have seen to that,

Another aspect is that the way the nose section failed would possibly have been different due to the different crash profile, while the main gear should have failed in a similar manner, and the engines are held on to the wing by "fuse pins", the manner in which they failed would have been different because of the greater distribution of the weight over a larger area, and there would have been a higher possibility of fire from the wing due to the location of the engines.

It just would not have been safe however for the crew to bail out in the way they did from the 727, the modern aircraft don't have a tail mounted stairway in the same way, so that exit route would not have been available to them.

In theory, yes, it would be completely possible to use the automation of the aircraft to produce a controlled flight into terrain, joking apart, several crews over the last 25 years have proved that with devastating consequences. Getting it into the air however would not be so easy, the automation is not set up to do that on commercial types, but the changes to do it for a special project would not be that complex for a limited scope mission such as this one.

Maybe that's for the next time, there's still plenty to learn from the detailed results of this test crash exercise.
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 11:23 PM
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Wingman26's Avatar
Oklahoma
Joined Aug 2008
669 Posts
The chase plane they brought with them was the Cessna, very poor planning since it just wasn't fast enough. They came up with a Marchetti after they were in Mexico, they didn't really say if they found it locally or brought it down after they found out the Cessna wasn't cutting it. They said the Marchetti was a turbine engine, it clearly wasn't a turbo prop, I'm pretty sure it was a turbo charged and that's where the confusion came in, it almost killed the project when the fuel pump failed.

I thought they should have had the gear up for the landing, the nose gear would dig in on the desert floor, which it did, then the front of the fuselage broke off and went under the fuselage, I was really surprised when the main gear broke off, then was thrown up over and IN FRONT of the wings, I didn't expect that!
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 11:50 PM
Detroit 2-stroke junkie
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USA, CA, Oceanside
Joined Jul 2008
3,227 Posts
A Mooney would of been a better choice.
Another 3 Knots could make the difference.
That and using 72Mhz.


In the end I believe it was a success. The goal was to crash the plane at 2000'/Min and they got 1500'?Min.

There was substantial damage and this gave a real world result.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 09:10 AM
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United States, OH, Tipp City
Joined Oct 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingman26 View Post
The chase plane they brought with them was the Cessna, very poor planning since it just wasn't fast enough. They came up with a Marchetti after they were in Mexico, they didn't really say if they found it locally or brought it down after they found out the Cessna wasn't cutting it. They said the Marchetti was a turbine engine, it clearly wasn't a turbo prop, I'm pretty sure it was a turbo charged and that's where the confusion came in, it almost killed the project when the fuel pump failed.

I thought they should have had the gear up for the landing, the nose gear would dig in on the desert floor, which it did, then the front of the fuselage broke off and went under the fuselage, I was really surprised when the main gear broke off, then was thrown up over and IN FRONT of the wings, I didn't expect that!
The Marchetti was indeed a turboprop.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 10:12 AM
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Thomas B's Avatar
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jun 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aero550 View Post
The Marchetti was indeed a turboprop.
Thought it was the piston version at first, but went back and looked and it was an SF.260TP, the turbine version.
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Last edited by Thomas B; Oct 19, 2012 at 10:22 AM.
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