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Old Oct 11, 2012, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by OVSS Boss View Post
After reading Dave's and Ken's posts, a couple of comments:

Dave, after reading your post, I am guessig that in eccense, you are saying that you are gone if the moldies come out in force? You have actually opened the Pandora's Box with concern to ALES as an event and it's future. My reasoning is, I have been asked why I was even getting involved in ALES, because my friends all said that guys of your opinion and others flying less expensive airframes, would leave the scene the minute that the top end airframes showed up. Your general sentiment seems to back that up, and from what I heard, you were not happy at the Nats because there were high dollar airframes doing well in the competition. The same issues can be seen as I have watched TD in the last ten or so years with guys that basically went home looking like Charlie Brown draggin his kite because some bad guy bought a nice sailplane and they automatically felt that they were beat irregaurdless of their talent and knowledge. It can be seen at about any TD contest that a guy flying a moldie is no gaurentee of success, but in the hands of LJ, TK, Randy, Walt, et.al., they allow these guys to utilize every possible chance to beat the competition because they have put in their time and effort to become skilled thermal fliers and that is what guys seem to miss in that equation. They could win with Radians, but they like flying moldies and that is what they got.

ALES is a relatively a simple extension of string launch TD for any TD guy that has some electric ship knowledge and a little time thinking it out. I hope that your attitude does not spread, but it could and if it does, ALES basically dies of envy and that would be a bad thing. More TD guys are coming so I hope your thoughts do not become the majority view.

Ken, you made a comment about landings and what happens when someone makes 35's or better every round. At the Nats, one guy averaged nearly 44, he had one 35 and the rest were 40 or better. As the number of more experienced fliers come out, landing scores will increase (and that is why a more graduated tape would be nice to split up the standings), no matter what the rules are.

ALES is a great event and has such promise, but if folks decide that equipment issue will be a go/no go switch they use to attend events, then ALES is in trouble already. I hope not!

Marc
Marc,

You took my comments out of context and made the wrong assumption. I could care less if all the planes in a round are molded and mine is not. I actually welcome it. I will derive the same amount of satisfaction if I win the round against a Tragi, Xplorer, or a Radian. During many of my rounds at the Nats as well as the Polecat, my timer said I was still the highest ship out there. I am inexperienced so I won only one or two of those rounds. I either left altitude too late, too early, or didn't have my approach timed correctly.

I was not at all dissapointed at the Nats because so may molded ships showed up. What did disappoint me is some of the other things that occurred. As I stated previously, there was no real good reason for balling up the landing tape (10 meters of nylon strap) other than to arrest the landing slide. One contestant told me there was no rule against it and another said it was so those guys had a target for aiming. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, so I just dismissed that explanation.

Additionally, one of the basic rules that carries the penalty of a DQ as explained by the CD during the pilot's meeting was violated, but the contestant was not given a zero round. True, the CD did poll the other pilots flying the same round, but rules are rules. There was no interpretation necessary by the CD, but it was still waived at his discretion.

I will continue to compete and will go to the Nats next year, Lord willing. I will continue to practice, practice, practice. I will participate and hope the fun does not go out of it.

I go to be with people like Denny, Randy, Ed, Jack, Kenny S., Jimmy N, Steve, Freddie and a host of others. It's the fellowship, laughter, and yes, even the fair dose of BS that keeps me going to the contests. I will let other people debate the other facets of the class from now on and hope I can quietly improve my skills and be a more formidable competitor some day.

Oh, and don't worry that I may have some envy concerning 2-3000 dollar planes. As I said, I could care less what you fly. Bring it on and may the best pilot, not plane, win.
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 06:11 AM
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Well Dave, I am glad to hear that you are here for the long haul.

The Nats, since I know one thing involves me and other I am guessing, a comment.

Landing: I guess that my taking the tape to the left at a 90 degree to flight path is one of the issues you are raising there? Well, I do the same thing in TD, and so do guys like Joe Wurts, Chris Lee, and others. I have been doing this since about 2008, because for me it is easier to hit a point than float down a line, it is all perception for me. Now, yap, once in a while I can catch the line, but the odds of doing that are pretty miniscule and I figure if I catch the line, that was a hell of a spot hit in itself. The bottom line, if I had to rely on catching that line to make landing points I am in trouble anyway.

The Motor Burp: I am not sure the round, but for the crowd, I had a motor burp in a late round on the first day of ALES at the Nats because even though the motor timed out, I did not switch off the motor on the radio cause I was a bit busy and I thought it was off for the duration of the flight. Well, I guess about ten seconds passed and I got about a 2 second burp of power. I was asked what happened, told the CD, a bit of time later, got told that after a poll of the fliers of the round (which all made maxes) and other experienced guys, I was good since it was obvious it was inadvertent. So, just like a horse show, the decision of the Judge (CD) is final and I was good to go. The rest is history.

Just like you, I come cause I love competitions and being with good guys. I am sorry that I caused you consternation, but the decision was made and that was out of my hands.

Marc
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 08:38 AM
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This is getting good!
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 08:50 AM
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Always here to entertain Dennis!

Marc
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 09:41 AM
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United States, AZ, Cave Creek
Joined Jun 2011
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Ball of (landing) Tape

Here is an observation from the S8E/P event at the World Championships in Slovakia last month. I was assisting the US fliers and observed one of them preferred the ball of landing tape. When I asked about it he pointed out that the landing zone was in 8 to 12 inch deep clover and the landing tape was easily lost in the green stuff. By balling it up it was easier to see in his peripheral vision while setting up his approach. By the end of the day almost all competitors from every country were doing it too.

Terrill

(for the uninitiated, FAI class S8E/P is E-powered R/C rocket glider with the precision landing you all are used to. It was one of the events at the World Space Modelling Championships - Model Rocketry in American speak- held in Liptovsky-Mikulas)
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 01:50 PM
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Terrill,
SOme guys do ball up the tapes in TD, but since the landing tapes have shortened, you do not see it much anymore. At the Nats, the grass is like first cut rough on a golf course in length, but some guys still do it. The thing that the uninitiated to TD and for that matter ALES, the chance that the ball of tape can help them stop sooner is kind of mute. It is not against anything in any class, FAI, AMA, or otherwise so a flier has free range to do with it what they decide, and if it helps your brain, then I guess it is doing something for ya.

Marc
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 02:02 PM
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Tapes

I cannot believe what I am reading on here. How can any fair-minded sportsman let such blatant rulebreaking as balling up tapes become the norm. I have never heard of such a thing. We joke about it, but I cannot imagine any of our chaps doing it. What the hell were the CD's doing all this time???
Ken.
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knormang View Post
I cannot believe what I am reading on here. How can any fair-minded sportsman let such blatant rulebreaking as balling up tapes become the norm. I have never heard of such a thing. We joke about it, but I cannot imagine any of our chaps doing it. What the hell were the CD's doing all this time???
Ken.
So, you were there at the event in question, and participated in the decision making process? Had there been a significant question there is a very well defined protest process that any contestant could have taken advantage of. Since I strongly doubt you attended, then you really have no say in the matter, thus no basis for your righteous indignation. Too many Monday morning quarterbacks on the internet as it is.

JT
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 02:55 PM
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And Ken, what rule are they breaking? I have looked over landing rules on the ALES League site and there is nothing that says anything about doing anything with the landing tape, in anyfashion. It is not an issue nor does it help stop the airframe.

Marc
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by OVSS Boss View Post
And Ken, what rule are they breaking? It is not an issue nor does it help stop the airframe.

Marc
You mean if every little thing is not spelled out in THE RULES- then it is a 'free for all'-anything goes. Come on!!!
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 03:11 PM
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All I know is that I'm building an ALES Aspire...after seeing the event at Visalia last week, it's too much fun to miss out on.

Tom
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 03:18 PM
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Ken, you said it, if it is not in the rules it is legal unless otherwise stated by the CD. There have been guys doing this for 40+ years since TD started and you will even see F3J guys do it.

Does my method of taking the tape to the left at the 90 degree angle to the flight path a problem for you?

Marc
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 03:27 PM
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Rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OVSS Boss View Post
Ken, you said it, if it is not in the rules it is legal unless otherwise stated by the CD. There have been guys doing this for 40+ years since TD started and you will even see F3J guys do it.

Does my method of taking the tape to the left at the 90 degree angle to the flight path a problem for you?

Marc
I think we should add the old "catch-all" to all soaring rules then----

"Unsportsmanlike Conduct".===That should give the CD all the authority he needs> Ken.
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 03:34 PM
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Ken, have you CD'd? Basically a CD can call about any rule he wants if it remains in the safety code, that is old news at least in the U.S. And how do you get to Unsportsmanlike Conduct with this, a flier has the right to do with the tape what they want.

And there are other mentions of UC in the AMA book, and I can promise you that those issues never were intended to be used in this case.

Marc
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 03:41 PM
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Last Word.

Marc, it is obvious that we were brought up on opposite sides of the Atlantic Ocean ! I cannot understand why anybody would cheat every way they can.?
I don't consider that kind of conduct funny or desirable.Go ahead-have the last word.

Ken.
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