HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Oct 10, 2012, 10:39 PM
Registered User
Larry Jolly's Avatar
Joined Oct 2003
1,768 Posts
I have no interest in raising the bar to the point that only expensive equipment will show up. If you read my first post the way Kent and Ed and I will handle it is to offer two classes. Both can become very popular and well contested. We had considered a 2 function class, which would cover Radians, and wood models for those that want to roll their own. Kind of like the old 7 cell class from the 80's. This will be a good low cost entry point for the new guys. We chatted with guys like JT and while I orignally thought 2 meter was a good size, he pointed out that there are many OLY size models that would fit the bill. While the larger model would have some potential glide advantage, it might lose it's advantage when it comes to landing. It was decided that 200 meters would be appropriate for this class as we want to promote a simpler task for the guys just jumping in. For me I am OK with the idea that somebody might throw a Radian only contest...Nothing better than a one design stock contest to make a fun, show off your skills get together....
Larry Jolly is offline Find More Posts by Larry Jolly
Last edited by Larry Jolly; Oct 11, 2012 at 09:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Oct 10, 2012, 11:34 PM
Thermal Junkie
Leadchucker's Avatar
Joined Sep 2008
3,339 Posts
I get the chilling feeling that the whole simplicity and fun idea of this event is going to get ruined somehow. I hope I am wrong.
Leadchucker is offline Find More Posts by Leadchucker
RCG Plus Member
Old Oct 11, 2012, 05:14 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
10,133 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leadchucker View Post
I get the chilling feeling that the whole simplicity and fun idea of this event is going to get ruined somehow. I hope I am wrong.
Same here.
I think they should leave it alone and let it go the way it's been going.

2 classes?... No way.
Require a throw before motor power up?... Not the electric way.

Also, I am a firm believer in RFM props and spinners ... I even have one on my Radian.
.
Kenny Sharp is online now Find More Posts by Kenny Sharp
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 05:44 AM
Registered User
R.M. Gellart's Avatar
Joined Nov 2005
3,516 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leadchucker View Post
I get the chilling feeling that the whole simplicity and fun idea of this event is going to get ruined somehow. I hope I am wrong.
LC, all classes go through evolution. Compared to TD, ALES is so simple to run, basically as simple to set up a ship (give or take) vs. a TD ship, and it is fun because comps are fun. Isn't that why you go to a contest?

If you think that ALES is not going to evolve, you are denying history about any event. But that does not mean that the fun has to decrease does it? Anything that is clostered will die too, so, leave ALES open and if another class begins for simple stuff, so be it.

It is all fun isn't it?
Marc
R.M. Gellart is offline Find More Posts by R.M. Gellart
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 06:38 AM
Registered User
jtlsf5's Avatar
United States, CA, Folsom
Joined Jul 2007
2,497 Posts
Gotta agree with Marc, if it doesn't evolve it will die. In case some aren't watching, it already is. Current generation high end molded sailplanes converted to electric, ALES planes integrated into standard TD format contests, etc., its happening right now.

For those stuck on ALES-league rules events, run or participate in only those contests, that's your choice. But if you think the ALES class will stick exclusively with the ALES-league defined contest task, then you're living on another planet.

JT
jtlsf5 is offline Find More Posts by jtlsf5
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 09:22 AM
Registered User
Okanagan Falls. British columbia. Canada
Joined Nov 2006
366 Posts
Ales

This is where the two different interpretations of ALES gets people confused. It did confuse me for a while, until I realised that to a lot of guys ALES just means electric sailplanes with altitude limiters on board. Period. To the rest of us who have been promoting ALES, the competition version, it means the ALES Man on Man event.
Of course electric sailplanes will be used for other types of competitions. You could even put floats or skis on them and compete with them?

There also seems to be a group who want to see different types of landing scoring. Lower altitude motor cut offs(being tried already by some CDs in ALES Man on Man).Speed events (pylon races). All these ideas will be discussed.
For many of us though we shall be happy to leave the present ALES M on M alone and enjoy our simple competition, one class only?


Ken.
knormang is offline Find More Posts by knormang
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 09:34 AM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
2,478 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leadchucker View Post
I get the chilling feeling that the whole simplicity and fun idea of this event is going to get ruined somehow. I hope I am wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Jolly View Post
I have no interest in raising the bar to the point that only expensive equipment will show up. If you read my first post the way Kent and Ed and I will handle it is to offer two classes. Both can become very popular and well contested. We had considered a 2 function class, which would cover Radians, and wood models for those that want to roll their own. Kind of like the old 7 cell class from the 80's. This will be a good low cost entry point for the new guys. We chatted with guys like JT and while I orignally thought 2 meter was a good size, he pointed out that there are many OLY size models that would fit the bill. While the larger model would have some potential glide advantage, it might be lose it's advantage when it comes to landing. It was decided that 200 meters would be appropriate for this class as we want to promote a simpler task for the guys just jumping in. For me I am OK with the idea that somebody might throw a Radian only contest...Nothing better than a one design stock contest to make a fun, show off your skills get together....
Larry,

I'm sure we will all have plenty of time to reflect on (shoot down) your ideas here. Frankly, I think there's a pony in there somewhere. Actually, I like them.

There is an interesting departure by suggesting a 2 control class rather than a 3 control class (RES) which, it seems to me, could really make an interesting entry class. And while I am sort of ambivalent about your suggestion to include skegs on open class planes, a simple underwing skeg or peg on a Radian or other 2 control plane would substantially mitigate these planes worst landing habits while retaining their basic simplicity. Keep us posted as to how this works out.

Happy Landings,

Don
dharban is online now Find More Posts by dharban
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 09:42 AM
Registered User
Larry Jolly's Avatar
Joined Oct 2003
1,768 Posts
There is no need to talk about the death of ALES. ALES offers a CD a chance to host a Thermal Soaring competition on a smaller field, with less hassle, and fewer helpers. Like handlaunch , getting the glider airborne is all on the competitor. I believe the pushback we are seeing is the result of serious contest types joining in. They are looking for more from an event that has reached National status. There are some that are basically sport flyers, that have migrated away from TD competition because it wasn't working for them. There is no need to alienate this group, there s room for everyone. I am sure that both of the classes I have proposed, will offer interest to a wide range of soaring pilots. Heck I am looking forward to getting in on some of JT's and Dennis action in the 2 channel comps with my Electricus... These are just some ideas from California the rest of you can keep going just the way you like..
Larry Jolly is offline Find More Posts by Larry Jolly
Last edited by Larry Jolly; Oct 11, 2012 at 10:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 09:52 AM
Red Merle ALES
Curtis Suter's Avatar
United States, Mt, Helena
Joined Apr 2002
5,294 Posts
Here are my thoughts on skegs, I'm not 100% sure I'm sold on this idea but here's my thoughts.

I do not propose the big shark fins, as these are mounted under the wing on the fuselage and may/will give a large pitching moment over onto the spinner, prop attachment point. This may lead to issues Larry Jolly was speaking of with broken props.

I noticed and was surprised that at the 2012 Worlds Soaring Masters no skegs or shark teeth were allowed at all, but then sliding for 5 meters isn't an issue as they are able to dork.

There are sliding issues with ALES. I've flown from many different surfaces in different conditions and I've seen very short slides and then some very long ones. I agree it is/can be a safety issue.

In the 1990's when I was flying TD I used a row of shark teeth as my skeg, see attached photo of my WACO Millenium. They are long but not very tall which I believe if placed on the fuselage just in front of the wing would be a helpful solution.

It's also a business solution for someone as I don't believe they are available anymore.

Thoughts?
Curtis Suter is online now Find More Posts by Curtis Suter
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by Curtis Suter; Oct 11, 2012 at 10:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 12:23 PM
Registered User
R.M. Gellart's Avatar
Joined Nov 2005
3,516 Posts
There are lots of ways to get a small tooth on a ship, and if we are talking a small tooth, it really could be right behind the prop/spinner, forward of the hatch. It would be nice for removability as well, I have an idea or two.

Marc
R.M. Gellart is offline Find More Posts by R.M. Gellart
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 01:09 PM
Registered User
Larry Jolly's Avatar
Joined Oct 2003
1,768 Posts
I was thinking of something like a single 3/8" Track Spike that would screw in to the bottom of the fuselage and be removable.
Larry Jolly is offline Find More Posts by Larry Jolly
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 01:36 PM
Registered User
R.M. Gellart's Avatar
Joined Nov 2005
3,516 Posts
My idea was ring of carbon/FG with G10 tooth, basic slide on and tape to hold orientation. Dimensions of ~ max of 1/4"T x 3/4"H x 1.5 L or something there a bouts.

Marc
R.M. Gellart is offline Find More Posts by R.M. Gellart
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 01:51 PM
Registered User
Modesto CA
Joined Nov 2009
162 Posts
LJ:
I am wondering about the situation where you launch your AVA into a 10 MPH cross wind with the power off. With a winch launch you have the tension of the string to stabilize the glider.
With a power on launch you have the motor thrust to do the same. With the motor off the glider might go in an unanticipated direction and at six feet off the ground there won't be much time to react and correct.
Mac
Mac37 is offline Find More Posts by Mac37
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 03:19 PM
Registered User
Larry Jolly's Avatar
Joined Oct 2003
1,768 Posts
Mac,
Don't we throw in to the wind on launch ????? If you are more comfortable throwing with the prop turning , go for it. Just keep the fingers away from the saw... The way I figure any launch can have its hazards, I am just looking for prople to think safety. LJ
Larry Jolly is offline Find More Posts by Larry Jolly
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 03:21 PM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
10,133 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Jolly View Post
Mac,
Don't we throw in to the wind on launch ????? If you are more comfortable throwing with the prop turning , go for it. Just keep the fingers away from the saw... The way I figure any launch can have its hazards, I am just looking for prople to think safety. LJ
Sometimes we launch down wind.
Kenny Sharp is online now Find More Posts by Kenny Sharp
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Contest 2012 LSF/AMA ALES Championship R.M. Gellart Electric Competition Soaring-F5J/ALES/e-Soaring 64 Aug 15, 2012 06:48 PM
Discussion ALES Integrated Into a TD Event jtlsf5 Electric Competition Soaring-F5J/ALES/e-Soaring 48 Jul 06, 2012 10:52 AM
Discussion How accurate are AMA Event dates? erh7771 Electric Flight Events 6 Apr 03, 2012 09:45 AM
Discussion XPS Xtremelink banned from an AMA event? firstmanson Radios 481 Jan 04, 2008 09:57 PM
Discussion XPS Being "Snubbed" by an AMA Event!?!?!? tlh101 Xtreme Power Systems 66 Aug 26, 2007 08:20 PM