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Old Nov 26, 2012, 10:08 AM
Red Merle ALES
Curtis Suter's Avatar
United States, Mt, Helena
Joined Apr 2002
5,313 Posts
Why have landings scored at all?

My wife does agility with out Mini Aussie, "Peaches" and they use an automatic timing system with lighted poles. When the pooch goes through the poles the light is broken and the time stops.

I attached a graphic of what they are. This will also give you lanes to fly through. Think safety.

To keep folks from speeding through the gate to make their time, draw a line across the field say 15 feet past the gates and if the plane slides past that line the flight score is reduced or zeroed. It's all about safety. This would be a pure soaring contest, right?

I'm just joking here on this cyber Monday as a pair of poles is close to $2,000! Now purchase poles for a 10 lanes!

Curtis
Montana

PS Thinking of Marc and Jo as I write this.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 10:42 AM
Registered User
TrekBiker's Avatar
United States, CA, Granite Bay
Joined Mar 2004
532 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe W View Post
Excellent post Don!

In other words, mastering thermal skills buys one entry into the landing competition that sorts out the top flyer placings.

.
So true. Like the top 50 or so open class finishers at Visalia. Probably why the top pilots really like the windy difficult days.

Limiting launch height is one option to increase emphasis on soaring skill but would probably only work if ALES is divided into classes as a 100 meter limit, for example, would only add to the advantage the expert pilots have over everyone else.

One thing we have done with our SVSS ALES contests which I think really helped improve the competition experience is to use seeded man-on-man and divide the rounds into three or more flight groups. This way the best pilots are flying against each other in the top group and are timing/mentoring the less expert pilots in the bottom groups. (and it was really fun to watch JT get knocked down to the bottom group and fight his way back to the top by the end of our last contest)

Steve
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 03:00 PM
sailplane nut
Herminie, PA 15637
Joined Apr 2007
198 Posts
my 2 cents worth

Hi all from RCbobcat55 I for one like the ales idea. But as to the most expensive model winning I disproved that theory back in the l980"s by using a drifter 2 two meter cheapie woodie to win or place in many contests against models of the time like the Anteres and the Dodgson designs, In fact I got all the way to level 4 LSF using that same beat up drifter.I also like the seeded man on man idea. Our club in Pittsburgh,PA had what we called a pro-am event which paired each highly skilled pilot with a lower skilled pilot or relative beginner and it was really fun and there were some surprising upsets too. I like the newer composite and foam bagged designs too but basically it comes down to the skill of the modeler. I quit competing in the early 90"s because it wasn't any fun anymore. I had enough pressure at work and didn't need it with my hobby. I have a quick question for Larry Jolly- I believe you competed at the 1980 and 1981 AMA nats in the soaring events at Dayton, Ohio. If you remember a skinny curly haired guy in his mid 20's with a self-designed 2 M ship who placed in the top 20 that was me. Also, I would bet one of your electricus models or the 100" electric model you had published would work out great for this event. Just my 2 or 5 cents worth. Bob Markle aka RCbobcat55.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 05:13 PM
Fly R/C writer
Redlands, Ca
Joined Dec 2004
1,887 Posts
Well, this has been an interesting thread to read for the past hour, and the reason I did read it was to gather intell on how we are going to run our event this summer. So far, this is what is on my mind :

* standard 10-minute task.
* 150 meter altitude limit
* Runway landing
* MoM Scoring
* Contact by the plane upon any human, be they pilot, helper, spectator or zombie, is a zero flight score. (Enforced only after the plane has been launched.)
* 10-second launch window
* Anticipate 10 plane flight groups.
* Landing in a tree = severe and hysterical laughter.
* There are live high-voltage lines to the north. Landing on them will be shocking.

This field is a soccer field and as such, there will be soccer goal frames in some areas of the field. Contact with one will get you a goal, but no additional points.

There are 125-ft tall night stadium light poles on site, which are a fair distance away, but people have hit them. Contact will allow you to sign the pole with your name. Tough luck about the plane.

This should be some fun for all, and at this time, we are contemplating the possibility of making this a 2-day event. For sure, it will be all day on a Saturday. I'm looking forward to this.

Thanks!
Mike Lee
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 05:26 PM
Dragons, Windmills. All Same.
jcstalls's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined May 2002
3,753 Posts
Ah, that's just way too funny Mike.

Yet, good to hear you have added ALES and will be interested on how the integration works with regional TD events/

Jared
SoCal Dreamer in Indy
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 08:01 PM
SHADYBOY
United States, AZ, Phoenix
Joined Feb 2005
72 Posts
Color me there Mikey.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 07:59 PM
AZ Outback
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Joined Dec 2000
1,342 Posts
150m/10s = 15m/s or about 33.5mph I am not sure large pieces of foam will fly that fast, Mike.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 11:35 PM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
United States, MI, Fenton
Joined Jan 2000
8,319 Posts
Alright, I've wandered into this forum and I've looked at the sticky threads and this one here about ALES being an AMA provisional event. What I have yet to see is what exactly ALES is. Can somebody please give me a quick explaination of what constitutes an ALES flight?

Thanks in advance.

Mike
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 01:49 AM
Registered User
NorCal Hobbies's Avatar
Joined Feb 2007
701 Posts
You spin in a circle and throw your airplane 656 feet. It's AULD on crack. And if you land at your feet without hitting yourself, you win.
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 02:54 AM
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Luis Moya's Avatar
Mexico
Joined May 2004
223 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz View Post
Alright, I've wandered into this forum and I've looked at the sticky threads and this one here about ALES being an AMA provisional event. What I have yet to see is what exactly ALES is. Can somebody please give me a quick explaination of what constitutes an ALES flight?

Thanks in advance.

Mike
Mike,

Motor in the nose. Generally a 10 minute flight. One point per second. Power cut at 30 seconds or 200 meter (656 feet) what happens first. Re-starting motor equals cero score. Landing task 50 points with a 10 meter tape. Perfect score 650 points.

All the best.

Luis
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 06:47 AM
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jtlsf5's Avatar
United States, CA, Folsom
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz View Post
Alright, I've wandered into this forum and I've looked at the sticky threads and this one here about ALES being an AMA provisional event. What I have yet to see is what exactly ALES is. Can somebody please give me a quick explaination of what constitutes an ALES flight?

Thanks in advance.

Mike
Altitude Limited Electric Soaring. It is strictly a launch technique to get suitably equipped plane to altitude. The ALES league has a set of specific event rules which many confuse with ALES. They are not the same. It is quite possible to fly any type of thermal duration/landing task event using an ALES equipped plane, and there have been many instances of this in the last year as the event has been tried and integrated into mainstream soaring. A perfect example of this is the discussion on using ALES equipped planes for cross country tasks.

Once again, the ALES league is the first and best organized use of ALES planes, and its rules are currently the most widely used. It is not the definition of all things ALES. This is bound to change as the use of ALES equipped planes evolve and time goes on.

JT
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 07:32 AM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
United States, MI, Fenton
Joined Jan 2000
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I see. Thanks guys.

Mike
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 09:12 AM
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Hawksnest's Avatar
United States, PA, Perry
Joined Apr 2002
488 Posts
Altitude Limited Electric Soaring Rules:
Objective - To provide a Man-On-Man (MOM), electric launched, thermal duration soaring event with a
consistent launch altitude for all competitors.
- Any electric powered sailplane meeting the definition of an electric powered glider is permitted to
fly in this event,
- Launches will be accomplished by the competitorís on-board electric power system and will
begin within a starting launch window,
- The launching motor run will be limited by a 30second timer or 200meter launch altitude,
whichever comes first. (A list of acceptable altimeter/timer switches is attached).
- The launch must be followed by pure gliding flight with no further motor assistance.
- Landing points will be added to the normalized flight score to determine the overall score
Thermal Duration Task
- The task consists of a target time announced by the Contest Director (CD). 10 minutes is
recommended. The CD may choose to change the target time based on local conditions,
- The flight is initiated with a 10 second launch buzzer. All pilots must launch their planes within
the 10 second launch buzzer. A plane launched before or after the launch buzzer will receive 0
points for the round,
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 09:41 AM
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jtlsf5's Avatar
United States, CA, Folsom
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksnest View Post
Altitude Limited Electric Soaring Rules:
Objective - To provide a Man-On-Man (MOM), electric launched, thermal duration soaring event with a
consistent launch altitude for all competitors.
- Any electric powered sailplane meeting the definition of an electric powered glider is permitted to
fly in this event,
- Launches will be accomplished by the competitorís on-board electric power system and will
begin within a starting launch window,
- The launching motor run will be limited by a 30second timer or 200meter launch altitude,
whichever comes first. (A list of acceptable altimeter/timer switches is attached).
- The launch must be followed by pure gliding flight with no further motor assistance.
- Landing points will be added to the normalized flight score to determine the overall score
Thermal Duration Task
- The task consists of a target time announced by the Contest Director (CD). 10 minutes is
recommended. The CD may choose to change the target time based on local conditions,
- The flight is initiated with a 10 second launch buzzer. All pilots must launch their planes within
the 10 second launch buzzer. A plane launched before or after the launch buzzer will receive 0
points for the round,

This is only one option, and the one that the ALES league adopted. It was taken from the chosen task of the AMA/LSF Nats for that year's event (follow the ALES league Rules link and it takes you to the Nats rules).

It does not define ALES, ALES is just a launch method, not an event.
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 10:33 AM
Thermal Junkie
Leadchucker's Avatar
Joined Sep 2008
3,353 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtlsf5 View Post
..... ALES is just a launch method, not an event.
I like this and it leaves the door open to the future and who knows what sort of events.
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