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Old Oct 06, 2012, 12:29 AM
Epoxy & CA Investor
DenverJayhawk's Avatar
United States, CO, Denver
Joined May 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
Freedom from theft. Freedom from fraud. Freedom from physical assault. The Freedom to pass 100% of your resources to your heirs.Freedom to purchase healthcare at a free market price agreed upon by patient and doctor. Freedom to sell, or purchase, a standard light bulb of any wattage desired. There are an infinite number more where that came from.
Each of those freedoms have been used to persecute innocents
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 12:32 AM
Cat Rack
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Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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Originally Posted by DenverJayhawk View Post
Each of those freedoms have been used to persecute innocents
Any Freedom can be used to 'persecute' someone, but then the person doing so is no longer an innocent ......and action against them is appropriate, and just as important, morally valid.

After all, by choosing to violate an innocent person's negative rights, they have necessarily proven that the violation of negative rights is something they find morally acceptable. Since they themselves are no longer innocent, use of the tool they used against another person is perfectly symmetrical.
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 06:53 AM
Chillin till SEFF
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Warner Robins, GA
Joined Aug 2003
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The argument that those deemed irresponsible should be effectively neutered is an old and interesting one.
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 09:51 AM
Unrepentant Paragon addict
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United States, OK, Moore
Joined Jan 2006
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Originally Posted by dll932 View Post
Forget the lib insults. The results are what's important. Don't you want fewer abortions and teen births?
So the ends justify the means...... wonderful.


Have you considered the slippery slope this leads to?
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 11:29 AM
Libertas in Infinitum
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Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2001
312 Posts
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Originally Posted by dll932 View Post
Forget the lib insults. The results are what's important. Don't you want fewer abortions and teen births?
Sure .... Sterilization will do that as well .... Why not do that instead?
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 11:34 AM
Chillin till SEFF
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Warner Robins, GA
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Stay outa my lady parts but pay for my lady part drugs
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 04:12 PM
Who, ME?
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Euclid Ohio
Joined May 2005
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Originally Posted by fooferdoggie View Post
Yes in a perfect world. But teens have been getting pregnant out of wedlock forever. The figures are around 30% or a bit higher of 8 month full weight premie babies for the last several hundred years.
I heard teen pregs are actually DOWN.
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 04:15 PM
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Euclid Ohio
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Originally Posted by LVsoaring View Post
So the ends justify the means...... wonderful.


Have you considered the slippery slope this leads to?
Yeah, fewer kids to be on the dole and/or grow up to be headcases or jailbirds. I'm not seeing a downside.
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 04:17 PM
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Euclid Ohio
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
Sure .... Sterilization will do that as well .... Why not do that instead?
I believe voluntary (reversible) sterilization for a one-time payment to the man or woman is not a bad idea. They would have to stay sterile for, say 20 years or pay back the money.
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 12:03 PM
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Joined Jan 2008
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I would have no problem with availability of free sterilization. I have some twitches about incentivized sterilization. Free means the person can do it or not as they chose, without implicit coercion. Paying is coercion (in the most humane form, perhaps) and goes much further in directing behavior.
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 12:12 PM
Chillin till SEFF
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Warner Robins, GA
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Knew a crackhead chick in Tucson. Kept getting knocked up and having abortions on the govt dime and finally a judge gave her a choice. Norplant or prison. She chose Norplant but complained constantly about headaches. Couldn't have had anything to do with smoking crack I guess
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 12:19 PM
Cat Rack
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Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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Originally Posted by bildo baggins View Post
Stay outa my lady parts but pay for my lady part drugs
Interesting isn't it
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 12:20 PM
Cat Rack
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Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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Originally Posted by dll932 View Post
I heard teen pregs are actually DOWN.
Down from a previous high, or down from when teen pregnancy was rare?
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 12:40 PM
Chillin till SEFF
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Warner Robins, GA
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I believe that is the case overall
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 12:54 PM
Who, ME?
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Euclid Ohio
Joined May 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
Down from a previous high, or down from when teen pregnancy was rare?
Down from a high point. As for when they were rare, I guess it would depend on what groups you consider. In lower income groups I imagine they were fairly common for quite a while but under reported.
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