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Old Oct 13, 2012, 07:05 AM
Da' Cajun
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Lake Charles, Louisiana
Joined Jun 2009
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Sharp eye there loNslo. I'll check it out when I get to back to the shop.
But Pete may be right, there is a pin hole right there in the plans. Looks like I might have gotten a little rough with it while setting it up.

Julian
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 10:15 AM
wood is good
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United States, CA, Marina Del Rey
Joined Jun 2012
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An "indentation" is a sign that the fibers have been over-stressed, at that very point (at a pin), a weakness that could lead to eventual failure. It would be a very simple and easy matter to reinforce it, now, before covering.
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 10:24 AM
Übung macht den Meister..
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United States, OR, Fairview
Joined Jul 2006
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All the outer laminations look fine, and should be plenty to handle whatever "stresses" that point of a rudder will encounter on a lightweight, slow-flying model.

All the laminations are doing at that point is giving the rudder shape. They're not supporting anything... What stresses, besides hangar rash, will that point experience that three laminations cannot deal with?



James
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 10:47 AM
Registered User
Norfolk, England
Joined Sep 2001
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A lot of problems with models are actually caused by needless reinforcement - it adds weight. As James says, there are no real stresses on this particular area of the model, it's only there to hold the covering in shape. If very soft balsa was used for the laminations, then I might be a bit more concerned.
I'm not sure this one counts as lightweight, but it should certainly be a reasonably slow flying model.

Pete
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 10:54 AM
Da' Cajun
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Lake Charles, Louisiana
Joined Jun 2009
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Agreed.
Just a shape holding area, not load bearing. The most it may need is a good CA soaking.

Julian
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 02:47 PM
Registered User
Italy, Emilia-Romagna, Plaisance
Joined Aug 2005
257 Posts
Hallo!
The PT-22 is one of my favorite plane.
In 2008 I've built the Peter Rake's Ryan's Daughter from the very good Manzano Laser short Kit.

Here's the video of the maiden flight:

March 2, 2008 - Ryan's Daughter maiden flight (2 min 34 sec)


In the first photograph you can see my Ryan's Daughter with his BIG BROTHER: the amazing Ryan P-22 built by Scale Master and my great friend Giacomo Mazzari.

Both models are GREAT FLYERS.
My small Ryan's Daugher can fly very slooooow or pretty fast without any problem and it can do acrobatic fly too.

Of course I'm very interested at the new PT-22.
Unfortunately it is a small model (50 inches w.s......again).
I'm sure that a model like this will be even better at 60+ inches and the wingload and price...$$$ will be only a little higher.

.......maybe I can enlarge the plans from 50" to 60"....

One last note: two "weak" details of the original Ryan's Daugher model are:
1) the "nose" of the model is attached to the fuselage with just two little balsa pieces.....and is necessary to add some wood and/or fiberglass to give some strenght to the front part of the fuselage.

2) in the finished model it's almost impossible to change or modify the main landing gear: there must be another solution.....

Bye!

ettore
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 12:50 PM
Da' Cajun
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Lake Charles, Louisiana
Joined Jun 2009
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Nice planes ettore !!


Ok, I'm a little bumfuzzled.
Got to the shop and started to finish out the ails & flaps. And can't figure out what I did wrong or what I am missing there with those ribs where they meet the ail/flap.
What do I do with that gap on top at the back edge of the ribs?

I thought I was using the correct size wood as shown on the plan.
The LE of the ail is a ¼" sq. and the TE of the wing at the aileron hinge is 3/16 x 1/4.
Also on the plan the rear spar is shown as a 3/16 x 14(?). I assumed that the 14 was supposed to be 1/4.

I know what to do to fix it. Laying in some filler strips lengthwise is no problem, but it's not indicated on the plans.
Did I assemble something wrong Pete?
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 01:43 PM
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Norfolk, England
Joined Sep 2001
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And that - "The LE of the ail is a ¼" sq. and the TE of the wing at the aileron hinge is 3/16 x 1/4. " - is precisely what you've done wrong. Nowhere on the plan does it indicate that those two pieces are only 1/4" high. I specifically only described them as 3/16 balsa and 1/4 balsa to indicate they are full depth and need trimming to follow the wing section. Since they're facing pieces, and so many of my other designs feature them in one form or another, I thought it was obvious how they go. Obviously I can see I need to add a note there - as well as correcting that other typo.

Also, if you notice, and I know it's hidden once the parts are on the plan, they should continue down to the board. The cap strips end at those facing parts. A good reason to fit the cap strips and facing parts before gluing the spars and ribs in place. They can easily be trimmed to precise length, and glued to the front of the rib once the wing is removed from the board.

Pete
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 02:15 PM
Da' Cajun
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Lake Charles, Louisiana
Joined Jun 2009
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Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation.

I knew something was off last week when I first framed it up but wanted to get back over here and double check the drawings to see what I knew I had missed.
Usually on a plan when I see a piece of wood described by only one measurement (¼, ½, etc.) I assume it's square stock.

I've been trying to read the other build threads on your designs to try a get an idea of how you do things.
Playing catch-up at the moment it seems.


Julian
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 02:23 PM
wood is good
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United States, CA, Marina Del Rey
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There should be an end view cross section on the plans which show the spars in relation to the ribs. Even in the plan view, the material thickness should be fairly clear.
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 02:31 PM
Da' Cajun
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Lake Charles, Louisiana
Joined Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loNslo View Post
There should be an end view cross section on the plans which show the spars in relation to the ribs. Even in the plan view, the material thickness should be fairly clear.
There is, but it only shows a cross section at the U/C location which has the ribs continuing out to the TE.
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 02:38 PM
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United States, CA, Long Beach
Joined Sep 2011
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I was at the Miramar airshow this past weekend and was walking along and heard the announcer talking about a couple Pt-22's flying by. Of course I didn't have my telefoto lens on at the time. Anyway thought of this build when I saw them.

Was going to find them later to get some more pics but everybody was beat and had to leave.

Robert
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 03:55 PM
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Norfolk, England
Joined Sep 2001
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If there's room on the plan I do usually show a section at the aileron. This time it seemed more important to show one at the u/c position. In this instance I think simply labelling them 'full depth' would be sufficient

IoNslo,
You might find me more receptive to suggestions if they aren't phrased like orders. I dare say it wasn't intentional, but that is how it reads.
If it were intentional, you know my answer would be along the lines of me not being bothered if you build my designs, you're perfectly at liberty to draw better plans yourself.
Seriously though, sometimes things are so glaringly obvious to the designer that he thinks it's equally obvious to everyone else. Clearly not in this instance.

Pete
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 04:17 PM
wood is good
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United States, CA, Marina Del Rey
Joined Jun 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PETERRAKE View Post
If there's room on the plan I do usually show a section at the aileron. This time it seemed more important to show one at the u/c position. In this instance I think simply labelling them 'full depth' would be sufficient

IoNslo,
You might find me more receptive to suggestions if they aren't phrased like orders. I dare say it wasn't intentional, but that is how it reads.
If it were intentional, you know my answer would be along the lines of me not being bothered if you build my designs, you're perfectly at liberty to draw better plans yourself.
Seriously though, sometimes things are so glaringly obvious to the designer that he thinks it's equally obvious to everyone else. Clearly not in this instance.

Pete
Quote:
Originally Posted by loNslo View Post
There should be an end view cross section on the plans which show the spars in relation to the ribs. Even in the plan view, the material thickness should be fairly clear.
Pete--Please don't take everything so personally--there were no orders--I wasn't even talking to you. I was responding to Boogie's previous post and trying to help him find the info he missed by pointing out what he should have been able to find on the plans (which I have not seen, so do not know how complete they are). Though I have yet to see a set of plans which did not show the relationship between spars, leading and trailing edges, and ribs.

As far as your being unreceptive, you must be referring to the problem I spotted on the rudder, at the precise point where it will one day fail. You pooh-poohed the idea of reinforcing the fracture and defended retaining a flaw in this model's construction as unimportant.
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 05:13 PM
Übung macht den Meister..
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United States, OR, Fairview
Joined Jul 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingconsulting View Post
I was at the Miramar airshow this past weekend and was walking along and heard the announcer talking about a couple Pt-22's flying by. Of course I didn't have my telefoto lens on at the time. Anyway thought of this build when I saw them.

Was going to find them later to get some more pics but everybody was beat and had to leave.

Robert
There's a PT-22 at the museum about an hour from home, as well, another often visits at the museum's fly-in each year.

Should anyone want some close-up, detail photos...

James
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