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Old Oct 04, 2012, 01:16 AM
Joe_Crash
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Help!
Any opinions of this R2 e glider?

I'm just getting into gliders, and stumbled on what appears in the picture to be a nice plane at an attractive price. : "3 Channel RC EP 1.8M Passer Thermo Glider Sailplane" at http://www.r2hobbies.com/rc-aircraft...sailplane.html

I've not heard much about these planes, and was hoping someone more experienced could give me a hint on whether or not it would be a good first glider. I plan to use a high start.

They also have this: 3Ch RC EP 1.8M Passer-X Thermo Glider Sailplane - for not a lot more - less than $90.00
I don't seem to be able to find a thread about it and was hoping you guys could point me in the right directon. I am always suspicious if something looks great but costs little - what do you all think?
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Old Oct 04, 2012, 07:59 AM
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Found the following:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...=passer+glider
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...=passer+glider
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...=passer+glider

The treads are old but if you post to them you may get some opinions from people who have had them a while.

The link you posted was to the pure glider, but your photo is of an electric glider. Which one interests you?
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Old Oct 04, 2012, 04:51 PM
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IMHO, it's usually best to start with a simple RES glider. (rudder, elevator, spoiler). However, since you have other flying experience you may be comfortable with the ailerons. But the less brain you devote to handling, the more you have left for figuring out the thermals.

This glider is about the minimum size I'd recommend for a beginner's thermal soaring glider, as the bigger they are, the slower things happen, the better the aerodynamics are, and the easier it is to see them at long distances. I notice that it seems to have very little or no dihedral. This would be ok on the slope, most likely, but at long distances as in thermal soaring, it might be a problem. If you work out the weight implied by the listed wing loading and area, it's a bit implausible: 17.6 oz. Not impossible, I suppose. And perhaps they mean without the radio, in which case its more believable.

If the Gentle Lady ARF is anywhere near as the kit version, it might be a good choice, at least for thermal soaring. If you don't mind building, I always try to get beginners to make an Oly 2. One of the very best sailplane trainers and perhaps the best, IMHO. Partly because it's 100 inch span instead of 2 meter. There are lots of other decent choices, especially if you build.

Another approach many people take is to buy a Radian (not the Pro). For a flying beer cooler, it performs ok. WIth a few very easy mods, it handles better. On the slope, you might consider an Easy Glider too. You used to be able to get them without the electric motor. They bounce better, I think, than the Radian. Performance is not too bad, and they're not very hard to fly, though I don't find the handling to be my favorite, even if it's easy.

Recommend, if you haven't already, you get in touch with CASA, an rc soaring club near you:
http://www.soarcasa.org/
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Old Oct 04, 2012, 05:17 PM
globemaster
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I have the "pure" thermal glider, floats on next to nothing and you can (and should) slope it with ease ... it is a bit on the "responsive" side of gliders, which I prefer, btw...
Love it.
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Old Oct 04, 2012, 09:08 PM
The Lone Sloper
USA, NY, Orchard Park
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Passer

Log into their site and you get 10% off. These are excellent kits for the money. I bought one just to keep on hand. Even if you don't fly it now, get for later when you are more experienced. Total cost with shipping is just under $100. They also carry the Speedo which is an excellent little slope plane.
Frank
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 05:49 PM
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The Passer is an absolute joy to fly!!
On the slopes, it'll fly on next-to-nothing, and yet penetrates amazingly well with no ballast in higher winds. In fact, I think it even penetrates better than the Speedo!! It appears to have no dihedral, but in fact, it'll fly hands-off very very well. I winched it a couple weeks ago (never done that before) and a few guys were shocked it took a full throttle launch. I haven't thermalled in a couple decades almost, and all the other birds at the time were very large and floaty 12-footers... but it wasn't a great lift day. The Passer was notably faster in a glide than those...haven't thermalled since, as sloping is now what I do.
I bought the Passer X (identical except for firewall) as a backup in case I ever destroy the first one.
I'm thinking of buying a couple more just in case!!

One thing I do on very light balsa wings, is to cross-drill the nylon wing bolts at the breaking point. The bolt is a gazillion times stronger than the balsa.
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 10:28 PM
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oh yeah...
You mentioned this would be your first glider.
Can we assume you "already know how to fly" and an aileron plane is a non-issue?

Also, if you have a transmitter that'll do some camber mixing, then a flip of the switch to give 3mm down aileron (with elevator compensation) will make this beauty even floatier!

It also is capable of turning on a dime with minimal loss, even at minimal airspeed, without stupid-sudden stall.
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 04:18 AM
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Some pretty positive reports on rhe pure glider as a slope glider. The winch report is quite impressive.. And seems it might do OK as a thermal glider too.
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 12:01 PM
Joe_Crash
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Actually the link I posted was wrong and the picture was right. I don't have access to a winch, and have never used a high start - though getting a pure glider at that price might be a good way to start (Though I'm not exactly clear on how/what they are - are they just a longer version of the bungee I use to launch some of my edfs?)
Thanks for all of your input. October is a long month though, and I get paid once a month, and have a really small discretionary budget)
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 12:48 PM
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A hi start would be a single length of "bungee" connected to a length of string, e.g. 30' of tubing and 100' of string. It may stretch out to 200' or whatever (all sorts of different hi-starts) and it launches like a kite almost straight up, and not horizontal like a sling shot.

Oh, and should have mentioned the full throttle winch was the first 90% and gave maybe 3-4 brief release taps at the zoom. Not full throttle the entire time, but darn close. The club member said to watch the wings and give release taps if they start to flex...which they didn't. I only pulsed it at the zoom after watching the other guys do a high-G pull-up at the top which I wasn't ready to do yet.
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_crash View Post
Actually the link I posted was wrong and the picture was right. I don't have access to a winch, and have never used a high start - though getting a pure glider at that price might be a good way to start (Though I'm not exactly clear on how/what they are - are they just a longer version of the bungee I use to launch some of my edfs?)Thanks for all of your input. October is a long month though, and I get paid once a month, and have a really small discretionary budget)
In the USA, a bungee is an elestic device that is covered with cloth typically used to secure cargo. You can not stretch it very far, maybe 50% of its rested length as the cloth constrains it.

A hi-start is usually based on bare latex rubber tubing that is 25 to 100 feet long that can be stretched 3X its rested lenght or more. So a 100 foot piece of tubing is stretched 300 feet to a total of 400 feet.

To that we add line equal to 3 to 4X the length of the tubing when it is at rest. I use masons line. Some use fishing line. It is not important which.

Hi-start rubber can be anywhere from 1/8 to 1/2" OD with variations around wall thickness too. Larger cross sections and thicker walls are used for heavier gliders. We typically want a pull of at least 3X the weight of the glider, and 4-6X will be better in many cases.

So my hi-start is 100 feet of 3/8" latex tubing with 400 feet of line. I stretch it 300 feet to a total length of 800 feet, which gives me about 24 pounds of pull to launch my gliders. I pull less for lighter gliders and more for larger gliders. Naturally you can have smaller hi-starts, sometimes called up-starts, but the ratios remain the same.

Video of actual hi-start launches

RC Glider Hi-Start Bungee (2 min 57 sec)


Bungee High Start Glider: Perfecting the Balance (3 min 19 sec)



RC Glider Flight Compilation (6 min 14 sec)



> Learning to use a hi-start
http://www.rcsoaringdigest.com/pdfs/...SD-2008-03.pdf Page 25
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155353
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 01:09 AM
Joe_Crash
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Thanks for the links and the tips. I had no idea a high start was so damn long! What I called a bungee I meant 6mm Silicone tubing I got from HK - to launch some of my edfs, and my Speedwing Dart which when I have a big lipo in it is a bit tricky to hand launch. Wow, that is a lot of altitude. I am guessing you have your radio programmed with a launch config? A touch of up elevator and cambered wings? (I am guessing - I know next to nothing about sailplanes - that's why I was looking at the electric version of the Passer. It's a pretty impressive ARF for the money, that's for sure. I was looking at a Durafly Dynamic S until I saw this; the Durafly I guess would be a warmliner. I'd rather have something that I had the option of thermalling with. There is a club nearby that flys a lot sailplanes - CASA - I'm going to go and check it out tomorrow and talk to some of the members before I decide on the glider or e version.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 04:44 AM
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I visited the CASA club a few weeks ago. They hosted an Eastern Soaring League contest. Www.flyesl.org

If you can hookup with them you will have it made.
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 08:05 PM
Joe_Crash
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I'm leaning towards the e version. Has anyone here done any business with Skip Millers Models? They are carrying the 2 meter Raptor - and for a very good price too! I don't know if they actually have them in stock or are drop shipping them - if they have them in stock I'll save a ton on shipping - like $40. I just wanted to see if anyone has ordered from them recently because I found a thread that didn't inspire confidence in getting my order to me in a timely fashion. I guess I should just give them a call tomorrow and see, but I thought I'd ask here fiirst.
Heres the link to the Raptor: http://www.skipmillermodels.com/Electric_s/6.htm
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 09:57 PM
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Dunno...but I DO know that i've ordered three planes from R2 Hobbies, and got each one in about 5 days. Chinese writing all over the box and everything. I can only assume they are pre-shipped/stored here perhaps?
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