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Old Dec 01, 2003, 05:57 PM
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Los Angeles Industry, California, United States
Joined May 2003
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best bang for the 3d buck? lipo or brushless?

what gives the better performance boost?

going from brushed (with gws gearbox) to brushless or going from nimh to lipo?
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Old Dec 01, 2003, 06:07 PM
And You're Not
Timbuktu, Mali (Happy?)
Joined Oct 2002
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Kinda a loaded question. When I was using the stock GWS can motor, the difference between 8 cell NiMh and 3S lipos was astonishing!! But motor life was very short (a dozen to 15 flights per motor, if that). The difference between the can and a brushless like the Himax 2015 4100 wasn't nearly as great...running both on 3S lipos. But I don't have to buy a new motor twice a week.

However..there are lots of different winds of brushless motors. A hot wind like a Razor 300 or a Himax 2015 5400 would surely give a performance boost over the can motor on a 8 cell pack... I don't know how long the pack would fly it and you might have to re-gear to a higher ratio like a C. I'm not personally familiar with the 8 cell/ brushless or 2S/ brushless. I ran my plane just long enough on the 8 cell pack to land and put the Lipos back in. Really.

But if you break down and get a brushless and a 3S lipo set up, you'll have the best of both worlds.!!
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Old Dec 01, 2003, 06:09 PM
RIP Ric
Andy W's Avatar
Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
Seeing as 3S LiPo is like 10 cell NiMH, that's not a fair comparison.
Both will give more duration (for same power setup).. brushless can offer more power if needed. LiPo duration can be 2x or more (compared to NiMH) for same weight.

Both is best!
..a
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Old Dec 01, 2003, 06:37 PM
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im trying to decide what to buy get next, i already have a razor 2500a and phenix 25 esc, but iv'e got another airplane that needs a power system, already have 5 packs of 8cell kan/hecell 1050/1100 mah nimh, trying to decide what to buy first between lipo+charger or brushless/esc the brushless/esc will cost me about $150 or so im guessing, still trying to decide between an outrunner or non-outrunner+gearbox.
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Old Dec 01, 2003, 10:27 PM
RIP Ric
Andy W's Avatar
Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
I have a Nippy 0808 on my 3DX, and am running 1500mAh Kokams. I had decided to stay away from LiPo's for a while, but I gave in and got the 3s Kokams.. I get 24 minutes of flight on a charge, so with 2 packs, I can fly almost an hour without recharging - perfect for hopping up to the park for a couple of practice flights..

So, I still say get both, but if you have a good power system already, perhaps it's time to try some LiPo's.. ?
..a
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Old Dec 01, 2003, 11:54 PM
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San Jose, California, United States
Joined Feb 2002
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I'd go with the Lipo -- I went from a 8 HECells to a 2s1p Thunderpower 2100. Huge weight loss greatly improved performance and increased flight time. When you get tired of replacing motors, you'll upgrade to a brushless.

-- Kyle
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Old Dec 02, 2003, 11:55 AM
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Canada, BC, Abbotsford
Joined Jan 2003
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I strugled with this problem myself for quite a while.

I have finally ordered my Tantrum. and more or less figured that the only way that I'll be happy with it is to go both brushless and Poly batt's at the same time.
If you bear with me while I ramble for a bit

I'm entering the parkflyer world as a slimer.
My intention was to have something that I could just toss in the car, and head out to a park just around the corner, (about 5 min away) rather than load the car, with a giant scale, or a couple of 40 size glow planes and drive the 30-40 min to the sactioned fields that I go to.
To this I have made some bad decisions. but have come to the point where I think that I've found the airplane that will do it for me is a Tantrum.
coming from gas and glow flying. If there is only 1oz of fuel left in the gas tank and I go to full throttle, I get the same HP and thrust as when it was full.
The only way I can see this working with electric's is with the Li-Poly's.
In order to improve my flying skills pre: Tantrum. I found the 3DX.
and downloaded the plans and flew it on a 300 "D" gearing 8-cells, disaster hardly flew. (duff batt)
So this prompted me to upgrade my charger, to a Triton (it'll cycle all my giant scale batt's and charge poly's).
And I'll fly the 3DX on 3-cell poly's. untill I burn up all my 300's.
For me the biggest hurdle, was desiding to open the wallet wide enough all at once.
The flight times and the fact that I can vharge the Poly's today and go flying next week is what I think that I'll like about poly's
And if I really like the brushless stuff in might get one for the 3DX as I've got a bundle of foam what's that 10 planes?
Rick
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Old Dec 02, 2003, 12:38 PM
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Los Angeles Industry, California, United States
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well i was flying my formosa today and on landing nosed her over and snap went the gearbox from the razor 2500a, now ive got to get another motor, looks like ill get lipoly setup even later now.
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Old Dec 02, 2003, 01:43 PM
Motor Maniac
Orange County, CA
Joined Feb 2002
2,875 Posts
This is a really difficult question to answer. I went with LiPoly first to get the weight down and it helped the performance on some planes, but not on others. Some of my brushed power setups wanted higher than 2S LiPoly voltage, but wouldn't do well with 3S LiPoly. Larger props helped in some cases, so I was fairly happy with at least some of my planes.

Then I went brushless, but still had only 2S LiPoly and 8x NiMH packs, so I had to experiment with setups (gearing and props) for these batteries to find the right combo that would work. I went with a RZ300 to help with the lower voltage and I can get really good performance out of a 2S Etec 1200 or even better a 2S Kokam 1500. I also got a PJS300 for smaller planes and found that it is a great motor. I love the lack of GB noise and the fact that it doesn't get hot at the power levels I run it at, so no worrying about overheating the motor in flight.

If I had to do it over again I would do both at the same time and probably go with all 3S LiPoly packs. If that weren't possible I would go with brushless first, since you can always usually find a motor/GB/prop combo that will work well on 8-cell NiMH.
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Old Dec 02, 2003, 02:56 PM
RIP Ric
Andy W's Avatar
Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
3S seems to be the way to go. Just like the old "7-cell trap", more volts is usually the better solution, and 3S provides that..
..a
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Old Dec 02, 2003, 03:50 PM
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Canada, BC, Abbotsford
Joined Jan 2003
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Andy
What's a Nippy 0808?
Rick
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Old Dec 02, 2003, 04:18 PM
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United States, VA, Leesburg
Joined Feb 2003
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easy - both!
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Old Dec 02, 2003, 09:01 PM
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Houston Tx
Joined Jun 2003
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Ribell,

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/brushless-uberall.htm

Nippy0808 2nd motor down.

Erin
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Old Dec 02, 2003, 09:19 PM
RIP Ric
Andy W's Avatar
Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
What he said.
..a
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Old Dec 02, 2003, 11:59 PM
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Canada, BC, Abbotsford
Joined Jan 2003
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Looks kinda intresting. Sorta like those PBS PJS? I got my 3-cell Etec 1200 today going to try it on the 3DX and see just how long a GWS 300c motor will last If they burn up real quick I'll look into one of these things for a throw around foamie. after the Tantrum is up and running.
Andy what prop are you running. And I guess that with only prop and airframe wind noise nobody should be able to complain about noise.
Rick
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