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Old Oct 03, 2012, 04:34 AM
Slip the surly bonds...
Sopwith Mike's Avatar
Christchurch,England
Joined Aug 2004
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Here we are! The only Tabloid of the SS1 type that has ailerons, courtesy of Chuck Wentworth at Antique Aero. The details are from "Windsock" dated March/April 1999, so I don't know if the plane is still flying.

His inspiration, 1213, is the only one of the Tabloids that isn't illustrated in any of the books, and it's thought that it was never photographed (unless anyone out there knows any different?), but here's a chance to make a pristine model with polished aluminium details, rather than stained, faded and dirty covering and dented cowls, that is entirely appropriate!

Have fun Larry!
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 05:33 AM
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Norfolk, England
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I can't help feeling this is getting a little tangled up with fine detail. The model drawn isn't intended to represent any particular aircraft. It's based solely on the 3 view I posted in Hugh's thread, where it is described as a late, armed, Tabloid. It has all the features I wanted incorporated into what was only ever intended as a sport scale model that is instantly recognisable as a Sopwith Tabloid. A generic Tabloid perhaps, but a Tabloid nonetheless.
As Mike pointed out, there was so much variation between examples that all you can do is pick your reference and stick to it. To me, what I drew typifies a late model Tabloid with ailerons (which most modellers want) and an u/c without the complication of skids getting in the way on less than perfect flying sites.

Pete
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 07:23 AM
Slip the surly bonds...
Sopwith Mike's Avatar
Christchurch,England
Joined Aug 2004
2,712 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PETERRAKE View Post
I can't help feeling this is getting a little tangled up with fine detail. The model drawn isn't intended to represent any particular aircraft. It's based solely on the 3 view I posted in Hugh's thread, where it is described as a late, armed, Tabloid. It has all the features I wanted incorporated into what was only ever intended as a sport scale model that is instantly recognisable as a Sopwith Tabloid. A generic Tabloid perhaps, but a Tabloid nonetheless.
As Mike pointed out, there was so much variation between examples that all you can do is pick your reference and stick to it. To me, what I drew typifies a late model Tabloid with ailerons (which most modellers want) and an u/c without the complication of skids getting in the way on less than perfect flying sites.

Pete
No criticism intended Peter, it's just that I try to stick to scale features wherever possible, and Larry wanted ailerons! The Chuck Wentworth replica allows him to do that while sticking to an actual aircraft. I do agree that once you can fly with ailerons, going back to rudder/elevator seems very restricting, made even more so by the Sopwith trademark fin and rudder size.

Keep the Sport Scale banner flying!
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 09:15 AM
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Norfolk, England
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Mike,
I know you are dead keen on these things mate, just explaining to everyone else my reasoning behind making the model as it is. True, these days I might be inclined to be a little more 'scale' about it, but it is exactly how I visualise a Tabloid for easy flying. Personally, I like the skids, but not everyone is as perverse as me.

Larry,
If you want to model a specific aircraft that had skids and ailerons, I have no objections. It doesn't alter the basic design at all and is really just a different scale detail. I do draw the line at wing warping though.
Not, you understand, that I'm implying you're perverse in any way if you do want skids. I just have this thing about aircraft with skids - SE2a, Nieuport Monoplanes, etc.

Pete
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 09:36 AM
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Norfolk, England
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Just as an afterthought, if anyone did want to add skids to this model, and they just wanted the effect, rather than precisely accurate scale, that replica appears to have an almost identical u/c to the model, with the skids tacked on the front.
The only thing I would advise is to use stripped bamboo for the skids. Anything else is likely to break the first time you nose over. I used bamboo for the skids on my little Chribiri (yet another one with skids) and they survived extremely well. Totally unscathed after I spun it in from around 15 feet up - several times.. In fact, I'm sure the flex in the bamboo saved the model from damage. Okay, it was only an IPS size job, weighing around 8 ounces but I don't suppose anyone is actually thinking of spinning in the Tabloid. Lack of power from the IPS unit was the main cause of my problems and this one should have ample power.

B****R!!! I wish I hadn't remembered that, that's another one I need to scale down to micro size. I'll just have to stop checking these threads, they give me too many ideas. Just this morning has seen me add Tabloid, Piet and Chiribiri to the micro list.

Pete
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 12:22 PM
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Lnagel's Avatar
Moab, Utah, USA
Joined Apr 2003
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Pete,
I have no problem sticking to the plan as you have drawn it. I'm not pedantic about replicating any particular aircraft. From what I've read in my research it appears that the RNAS had several Tabloids with "V" type undercarriage. I found no mention as to whether or not they had ailerons. As far as I'm concerned, your generic Tabloid fits the modeling bill perfectly. Now to decide as to whether or not to arm it.

Hugh and Mike,
Thank you for your inputs, it's much appreciated. There is just so much to consider when scale modeling.

Larry
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 01:08 PM
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Winging it

The wings for this aircraft have a short center section for the top wing and four panels for the upper and lower wings. The four panels are dimensionally and structurally the same except that the lower panels have an additional sheeted rib bay at the root.

I started wing construction by pinning the wing tip sheet, bass spars and the notched trailing edge to the plan. I glued the parts together at the appropriate places. I then added the full length ribs. After that I glued the leading edge to the front of the ribs and installed the thousands of sub-ribs. I also sheeted the top of the root rib bay on the lower wings.

I decided to build the ailerons in place along with the rest of the wing construction. Therefore, when I cut the wing trailing edge I also included the aileron trailing edge. Once the above construction was completed I added the aileron leading edge, tip and ribs. I separated the aileron from the wing after I had removed the panel from the plan and sanded everything shape.

The plan has two wing panels drawn on it with details for both the upper and lower wing panels shown. Therefore you can build two wing panels at at time. Which two are built at any given time is up to the builder. The builder can make two upper panels first, or two lower panels first, or one upper panel and one lower panel first. If the builder choses to build one upper and one lower panel first, then he can make that either a left upper panel and a left lower panel, or a left upper panel and a right lower panel, or a right upper panel and a left lower panel, or a right upper panel and a right lower panel. Pete has left so many options in this build.

Larry
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 01:17 PM
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Moab, Utah, USA
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Builder's block

An additional note on the wing construction. A small block plane removes a lot of unwanted wood quickly and saves a lot of sanding when shaping the wing leading edges.

Larry
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 01:33 PM
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Norfolk, England
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So there's three more options for you mate - plane, sand or hack with a modelling knife.
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 10:10 PM
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Skidded undercart... Hmmm *thinking...*
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 10:29 AM
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Moab, Utah, USA
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Stuck in the center

The upper wing center section (CS) is built much like the outer wing panels with the exception of the trailing edge and ply wing joiners. I began construction of the CS by laminating the four 1/16" ply wing joiners to the front and rear basswood spars. Then it was just a matter of pinning the two spars, leading edge and six ribs to the plan and glueing them all together. Add the sub-ribs and the trailing edge and 'voila', a center section.

Well, it's not quite that easy. First the trailing edge must be constructed. Pete's plan has the CS trailing edge made up from four identical pieces of 1/8" balsa laminated together. Then it needs to be shaped to conform with the airfoil profile. That requires nearly 1/2" of balsa to be removed from the rear of the trailing edge. In order to have to remove as little excess wood as possible, I used a rib profile as a guide to make each succeding layer of the 1/8" laminations shorter than the preceeding layer. Then just plane and sand the top of the CS trailing edge until there ain't no more ridges.

Larry
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 07:00 PM
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Melbourne, Australia
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Nice job.
I tried do do something a tad different with the center section trailing edge and fitted riblets to try to save weight.
In the end, I reverted back to the plan.
Much easier and not that heavy.

Hugh
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 08:32 AM
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Moab, Utah, USA
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May I serve you?

Pete's plan for the Tabloid has the ailerons actuated by two wing mounted servos. Per the plan, I glued hardwood rails to the fore and aft wing spars at the location of the aileron servo. The servo hatch will mount to those rails with screws. I then made the servo hatches from 1/32" ply. The hatches fill the full bay in which the servos mount. To actually mount the servos, I glued some hardwood blocks on the hatch and attached the servos to them with screws.

Larry
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 02:48 PM
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Moab, Utah, USA
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It all hinges upon this.

I hate CA hinges. I hate them not only because they have to be applied with CA adhesive, which I also hate, but also because they are stiff. That's not to say that I haven't used CA hinges on a lot of models, but I hate doing it. The other factor is that I use yellow wood glue for 99.9% of my building. That means in order to use CA hinges I have to spend $5.00 for a bottle of thin CA just for the hinges. Then by the time I build the next airplane the CA has thickened to the point that it will no longer wick properly so I have to spend another $5.00 just to install the hinges. So for this build I've decided not to use CA hnges, because I hate them, and use small Dubro nylon hinges instead.

That being said, this is how I hinged the ailerons. Normally I bevel the top and bottom of the hinged surface to form a V with the midpoint half way between the top and the bottom of the control surface leading edge. I then install the hinges at the point of the V. This time, however, I decided to put the hinges on the top of the control surface. Therefore I beveled the aileron leading edges from the top back towards the bottom. With the 3/16" thick leading edge this allows the aileron to droop 5/8". That should be fine because the actual deflection will probably be close to 3/8" to 1/2". I then installed the hinges with one side of the hinge angled down into the wing trailing edge and the other side of the hinge angled down into the aileron leading edge. I will eventually use epoxy to affix the hinges.

Larry
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 04:19 PM
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Norfolk, England
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Larry,
On the suject of buying CA, I visit the local shop ($ shop there I suppose) and buy a pack of 10 tubes. Use one as required and throw it away once the job is completed. I've had a pack over a year now and the remaining tubes seem fine still.

Pete
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