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Old Oct 22, 2012, 05:38 AM
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yorkshire UK
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Agreed, I always put in a few tricks and test out the stall on all new planes and even ones I have not flown for a while to get used to it again, it not only finds out what the plane can and cant do but it steadies the nerves too. Also it gives a good idea of flying conditions cause often the air is denser then other times and the best indicator of this the way it behaves in the aerobatics.
Raining again today lol, I really need a good indoor plane for the living room.
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 07:35 AM
MMR
Martian
Joined Mar 2007
446 Posts
Hello Peter & Nigel,
Interesting discussion you got going - here's my view. I always come back to gliders because:
You have to build/create a really efficient and clean airframe.
You have to understand the finer points of CG setting, decalage, ballast, etc
You have to learn how to fly 'clean' - meaning coordinated turns, proper speed to fly & camber for the conditions, etc

I have seen a lot of power guys try gliders, and they are always pulling back on the elevator, flying about as close to stall speed as you can, and not surprisingly, they come down like bricks. Then they dismiss this facet of our hobby.
So for me each day is a new challenge - weather is different every day, and trying to fly our tasks in any flyable condition is great fun. As I keep expanding my skills, I find that I can fly in some pretty awful stuff and still make 2 or 3 minutes - sometimes even more. But the biggest challenge of all is to make it back to the field on the merits of your ability (without power assistance).

BTW - when I fly power, I usually like to fly pattern/aerobatics. I fly power (electrics only) about 5% of the time.

Martin
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 11:09 AM
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The way that I look at it; one needs to almost climb into a glider and wear it like a second skin while aerobatic planes are more like a paint brush. The two require and inspire a different mental approach.

I have also seen countless aspiring glider fliers simply fly too slow. It is a bit counter intuitive that one gets the best L/D if one lets the nose drop and flies at a higher airspeed. Of course, many entry level gliders have airfoils that encourage slow flight for maximum hang time and moving a step up to something with one of the fantastic modern airfoils can prove to be a rough transition. It took me quite a long time but I did learn back in the 70s when a designer would basically draw a line, add a appealing curve over it, and call it a "flat bottom" or "Clark-Y" and hope it had some good qualities. Each new generation and fad in airfoils has had a learning curve associated with it and I daresay that each new generation has had a few models that get flown, poorly, once or twice and proclaimed a "dog" because the flier didn't understand how to fly it. And scale planes, with higher wing loadings and higher aspect ratios, add a whole other dimension.

I can't begin to count how many times I've seen guys spend months building their favorite scale gliders and hang them up after one flight. Generally; they will launch, slow to walking speed, and try to make a tight turn. This results in a severe divergence from level flight and the plane never flies again even if it makes it back to earth in one piece.
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 03:22 PM
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yorkshire UK
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Yeah, I have a m8 who bought and sold many gliders because he just got bored and trimmed every glider to fly as slow as he could and I never saw him climb a thermal, if he had trimmed them out properly and took time to learn how to catch and stay in a thermal I'm sure he would not have given up so quickly.
He could throw a dlg a LOT higher then me mind you and his dead air times were 1:30 mins compared to my 1 min, I could really do with some throwing lessons!
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 01:00 PM
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One of the things that's holding me back from a DLG is the stress of launching. On me, not the plane. My balance and flexibility are not what they were 20 years ago.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelsheffield View Post
.....
Raining again today lol, I really need a good indoor plane for the living room.
Off topic a bit, but I have fun indoors with my Blade Scout heli. It has an LED in the transparent nose cone, looks really cool in the dark!

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...h-heli-BLH2700
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterlngh View Post
One of the things that's holding me back from a DLG is the stress of launching. On me, not the plane. My balance and flexibility are not what they were 20 years ago.
I suffer from a long term back problem and thought the same but decided to give it a go anyway, the only times I suffered afterwards is when I get carried away and play for 3 hours straight lol.
In fact if I do a few light stretches b4/after a session my back is better for the exercise.
I don't wanna pursued you to get one though and then you do yourself in.

I takes very little effort to launch-it's more about good technique - for instance I have been working on keeping my arm back and straight out whilst building up in the turn and letting the plane follow my arm line and then accelerating in the last 1/2 turn only, where as b4 I would turn fast almost jumping round a bit trying to get more power into the throw.
Now this morning I started getting it right I think and my dead air times went from 1 min to 1 and 1/2 mins, I had also moved the cog back a touch so that may also have helped but the feel of the throw felt smoother, I still do not think I have it perfect but that is the fun of it, trying trying trying!

Perhaps someone might let you borrow and old dlg to have a play with to see how you get on?

If you can turn round 360 degrees with your arms out straight and not fall over you can throw a dlg high enough to hunt for thermals, it matters more how good a flyer you are as to how long you fly for.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 02:32 PM
MMR
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Peter, Nigel is right - I'm no spring chicken either, but it is about technique more than power. In the end what you're looking for is release speed. That speed comes from coiling up your body and letting it go in the last portion of the launch. If it hurts or is uncomfortable you're doing something wrong. If you were here in eastern NC I would let you practice with mine.

Anyhow, tried to beat you 15 minutes today Nigel and imade it to 14.41
The timer on my IPhone went off alerting me that it was time to go bak to work, that was at about 12 minutes. By the time I got it turned off and got back to flying I had lost my thermal and could not reconnect.

Well, next time...

Martin
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 03:42 PM
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Unlucky Martin, it only takes a moment to lose a thermal and any distraction puts me right off, if a dog comes up and starts sniffy round I usually lose my thermal, you have to watch it cause if you are standing still for too long they might decide to wee on your leg lol!
Managed a couple of 5 mins flights is all today but it's just about winter here now so not much going on apart from wind!
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 03:36 PM
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More lousy Smarch weather here on the frozen tundra of Minnesota. I don't mind flying in steady winds but we are getting gusts from all points of the compass.

I'm not really too worried about the launches with a DLG but it is a consideration. I figure that, if worse came to worst, I could always resort to a short hi-start so I could enjoy the plane even if discus launching doesn't work out for me. There are also a couple small slopes in the neighborhood where a simple hand launch would suffice.

Mostly though, now that I have an extra motor on hand, I'm sorely tempted to find an extra plane to mount it in! Now that I know the KDA 22-20L is capable of flirting with 2 kg of thrust I don't see any reason it wouldn't work great in a 1.5 kg scale sailplane or even a floater around 2.5 meters. I would rather add ballast as extra battery capacity, especially on a scale glider, than a heavier motor that's dead weight most of the time. I know it will give screaming performance to any 2 meter glider of reasonable weight though, at 85grams, it's a bit on the heavy side for a really light 2 meter design. Between the KDA and my 2834 I don't see a compelling reason to go to a 35mm motor in a sailplane unless it's well over 3 pounds.
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 05:34 AM
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No flying since Friday, probably grounded until Wednesday. Getting soaked by hurricane Sandy.

Peter - just do it! if you're living in MN you may want a slightly heavier glider that can deal with the wind.

Martin
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 11:29 AM
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Stay dry and safe, Martin!

I finally got some flying in yesterday. Light winds but from the worst possible direction so I didn't set any endurance records but, for the first time, got to fly all three of my electrics the same day. I attracted a small crowd so I didn't get bored flying the 3D ship.I even traded email addresses with a, hopefully single, mom who is planning on getting her son an RC plane for Christmas.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 04:02 AM
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Hong Kong, Discovery Bay
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744drv
Slope Soaring
Radian Pro 2 m
8 mins
13:30 29 Oct
Dragon's Back in Shek O National Park Hong Kong
We are in a phase of Easterly monsoon at the moment, including a typhoon to the SW circling Hainan Island. On the hill the wind was blowing about 25-30 mph but I went for it anyway. Joined as usual by a group of kites but I think they were finding the going a bit tough so didn't harass me at all. Landing was very sporty but is still in one piece, thank heavens for variable crow. I did, however, notice a lot of pitching with crow deployment today that is ordinarily mixed out. Guess it is just because I was deploying the crow while already at highish airspeed. Good flight, aim to get some longer flight times for Dec!!
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterlngh View Post
Stay dry and safe, Martin!

I finally got some flying in yesterday. Light winds but from the worst possible direction so I didn't set any endurance records but, for the first time, got to fly all three of my electrics the same day. I attracted a small crowd so I didn't get bored flying the 3D ship.I even traded email addresses with a, hopefully single, mom who is planning on getting her son an RC plane for Christmas.
You smoothy, good luck with the single mum!
Been out with my blaster this morn but was no lift to speak of again, so took spitfire out after upgrading the power system, only to be joined by another flyer with his spitfire so we had a dog fight, great fun!
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 12:35 PM
Foam flogger
Roseville, CA
Joined Apr 2009
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Was perfect weather to fly here this weekend but didn't get a glider up. Did fly my supercub as a chase/camera plane while my son fired model rockets. That proved entertaining.
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